social security

[Steveinphrae2]

Hello all

I have been living here for almost 4 years now. What  I want  to do is have my social security sent here to my account with Bangkok bank as a direct deposit.. Can I do this  on the internet myself or do I need to go to the bank..thanks for the help.. 

[BEVUP]

For the experts 

 

BUT, Country of origin would be good

[Esso49]

Social Security. Please explain your social security benefits from which country ?

[Steveinphrae2]

27 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

Social Security. Please explain your social security benefits from which country ?

USA

[ubonjoe]

You have to go to the bank in person to set up a direct deposit account. 

You will need to complete SF1199A direct deposit form that they will send to the SSA office in Manila.

Info is here on their website. 

https://www.bangkokbank.com/en/Personal/Other-Services/Transfers/Transferring-Into-Thailand/Transfer-money-from-US-to-Thailand-via-Bangkok-Bank-NewYork-branch

 

 

[Pib]

Keep in mind effective 1 Apr 19 even payment of U.S. govt payments such as social security, military retirement, etc., will be rejected/stop working.  Before it was only transfers from U.S. banks, but it's now expanded to even direct deposits as of a few days ago. 

 

More info here.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

12 hours ago, Pib said:

Keep in mind effective 1 Apr 19 even payment of U.S. govt payments such as social security, military retirement, etc., will be rejected/stop working.  Before it was only transfers from U.S. banks, but it's now expanded to even direct deposits as of a few days ago. 

The wording on that page are little ambiguous. It says this.

Quote

To do this we need to obtain information as described below to the relevant US government agency to your transactions in the IAT format.

Important Note
1.Your name and physical address in Thailand;
2.Your bank account number and the name and address of your  Bangkok Bank branch in Thailand; and
3.The 9-digit routing number of Bangkok Bank New York branch, which acts as the intermediary in the transaction, which is 026008691

They will already have that info from when you set up the direct deposit account and completed a SF1199A.

[Pib]

They will already have that info from when you set up the direct deposit account and completed a SF1199A.

That info is indeed on the SF1199A, unfortunately that info is not provided in the specific fornat or provided at all like the person's address required for an Interational ACH Transaction (IAT).

Plus the ACH payment has to use the three digit code of IAT to signify an international transaction but instead the three digit code of PPD is used for social security payments signifying a Domestic ACH Transaction. No proper code (I.e., IAT) and other req'd info in the ACH transaction file and the transfer will be rejected starting 1 Apr 19.

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Plus the ACH payment has to use the three digit code of IAT to signify an international transaction but instead the three digit code of PPD is used for social security payments signifying a Domestic ACH Transaction. No proper code (I.e., IAT) and other req'd info in the ACH transaction file and the transfer will be rejected starting 1 Apr 19.

I don't think it will happen. I suspect that the  SSA and Bangkok Bank may get things sorted out. Plus there are many with military retirement payments coming in the same way.

[Pib]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't think it will happen. I suspect that the  SSA and Bangkok Bank may get things sorted out. Plus there are many with military retirement payments coming in the same way.

Hope you are right...but that's only a hope.  I do know from my telecon with the NY branch rep last week...a rep who worked in their transfer dept and who was very knowledge of the situation said they still trying to find a  resolution, but none found yet. But they were also getting ready to send out a "Notice of Change" to the SSA, Defense Finance Accounting Services which pays military retirement, and other govt agencies saying they can no longer accept payments after 1 Apr 19 unless transmitted in IAT format.

 

Unfortunately the easy answer for SSA, DFAS, and other govt agencies is OK if folks do not have another U.S. bank account we can send their payment to then those folks will need to open a DirectExpress account which can be opened with a mere phone call and it does not matter where they live in the world...what foreign address they have...that's the main purpose for creation of the DirectExpress card.

[ubonjoe]

15 hours ago, Pib said:

Unfortunately the easy answer for SSA, DFAS, and other govt agencies is OK if folks do not have another U.S. bank account we can send their payment to then those folks will need to open a DirectExpress account which can be opened with a mere phone call and it does not matter where they live in the world...what foreign address they have...that's the main purpose for creation of the DirectExpress card.

That is an expensive option. See the following. To get $1000 would cost $30 + $3 + 220 baht for the ATM fee here.

 

Source: https://www.usdirectexpress.com/faq.html

[Pib]

30 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is an expensive option. See the following. To get $1000 would cost $30 + $3 + 220 baht for the ATM fee here.

 

Source: https://www.usdirectexpress.com/faq.html

Yes it is...fully aware it's expensive.   But if a person does not have a U.S. bank to have their payment go to the DirectExpress card is all they are left with because the justification to have the payment mailed by check pretty much requires justification that you live in a place on Earth with no access to ATMs along with justification of why only a check would work.

[lopburi3]

47 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

That is an expensive option. See the following. To get $1000 would cost $30 + $3 + 220 baht for the ATM fee here.

 

Source: https://www.usdirectexpress.com/faq.html

Suspect you could use a money transfer service, such as Transferwise, to Thai account and avoid the 3%/overseas fees involved.  Expect would be cheaper than trying to use card directly at foreign ATM for cash and not have an ATM limit of 20-30k.

[ubonjoe]

I have done a little research about the International ACH Transfers.

From pages 4 and 5 of this document. 

https://www.nacha.org/system/files/resources/IAT_Scenarios_Simplified_Final_03_06_09.doc

 

Source of document. https://www.nacha.org/content/international-ach-transactions-iat-solutions-center

Not exact for the purpose but I suspect that social security payments are exempt from falling under the requirements for IAT.

[Pib]

16 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not exact for the purpose but I suspect that social security payments are exempt from falling under the requirements for IAT.

Guess you better contact Bangkok Bank New York and tell them they are wrong.   Bangkok Bank NY is the gateway operator for ACH payments to Bangkok Bank accounts in Thailand and their revised policy is the payments from U.S. govt agencies destined for in-Thailand Bangkok Bank accounts must be in IAT format.   Additionally, the weblink given above only gives general guidance and the documented referenced is a 2009 document.    U.S. Treasury did indeed waiver social security payments years ago....I'll try to find the post on made on that in a related thread and link it here.

[Pib]

Here's the post I referred to above.  Please note the U.S. Treasury ruling regarding use of IAT for govt payments and please note it's a ruling from 2011...7 years ago.

 

 

[Jingthing]

For people needing a US account State Department Federal Credit Union will open a new one online with foreign address and passport I.D. For more info check out the web site of American Citizens Abroad.

 

With that you can do direct deposit of SS checks into that account.

 

Then move the money to Thailand as you wish but not ACH as BB won't open new links even already.

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

[Pib]

The fix for all of this is for social security payments and similar govt payments to be transmitted in IAT format.  But since the Bangkok Bank New York branch is a licensed "U.S. bank" social security uses the Domestic ACH Transaction format which includes less information, has different coding, etc.   Another fix would be for Thailand to the U.S. govt  International Direct Deposit (IDD) program (not to be confused with ACH IAT)...but Thailand is not part of IDD for whatever reason.   What it takes for social security to use IAT format for payments to Bangkok Bank NY  or to get Thailand into the IDD program is above my pay grade.   Guess we'll need to wait and see what happens but folks should have a Plan B in mind.

[marcusarelus]

I think that after April all the expats living in Thailand would qualify for the mail exemption.   https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/EFT Waiver Form.pdf

 

Of course that would mean every other check getting lost in the mail and the lost check process.  But if the Government wants that hassle so be it. 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I think that after April all the expats living in Thailand would qualify for the mail exemption.   https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/EFT Waiver Form.pdf

 

Of course that would mean every other check getting lost in the mail and the lost check process.  But if the Government wants that hassle so be it. 

What mail exemption are you talking?  No such waiver on the form above.

[Pib]

Below is the U.S. Treasury's regulation regarding exception from electronic payment (i.e., get paid by check).  Few exemptions exist.  A short regulation..take a read. 

I figure the only one that may be possible is: "has a mental impairment that prevents him or her from handling their payments electronically and he or she is not assisted by a representative payee."

 

Exemptions To The Electronic Payment Requirement

https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402001

[marcusarelus]

The regulation you refer to also states as a reason for a mailed check, " the payment is not eligible for direct deposit ....... and/or  "lives in a remote geographic location that does not have the infrastructure necessary to receive payments electronically"   which you don't mention?  https://secure.ssa.gov/apps10/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402001

 

The waiver form. 

https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/EFT Waiver Form.pdf

 

The Waiver form states "To receive your payments by check, you must explain how you qualify for a waver by submitting this certified Request for Waiver to the U.S. Department of the Treasury."

 

The second box says,

 

"I am unable to manage an account at a financial institution or direct express card because I live in a remote geographic location lacking the infrastructure to support electronic financial transactions."

 

I think the cost of the direct express is excessive and discriminatory so this country is lacking the infrastructure to support electronic financial transactions.

 

I think it would fly. I submitted the question to Manila and they said they will respond within 5 days.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

What mail exemption are you talking?  No such waiver on the form above.

https://www.ssa.gov/deposit/EFT Waiver Form.pdf

 

Yes it does.  "I live in a remote geographic location lacking the infrastructure to support electronic financial transactions"

 

It is in the middle box.

 

It explains further, " Please write 1-2 sentences to explain why your mental impairment or remote geographic location makes you unable to receive payments electronically."

 

Which would be Bank of Bangkok the only bank in Thailand capable of receiving SS deposits stopped doing so.

[Pib]

Oh come on....Thailand has a gazillion ATMs to slide a DirectExpress card into to get your payment benefit....ATMs on the sois...ATMs in the malls...ATMs everywhere.  That's why I didn't specifically mention that.

 

Yea, if you live out in the sticks you might have to drive a few kilometers to the nearest ATM....or if you live really, really in the sticks you may need to drive 10 to 20 kilometers or maybe a little further, but very few people will be in that situations.    I don't think that's going to qualify as a remote geographic region.   Yeap, thousands upon thosuands of bank branches and ATMs in Thailand...hardly a remote geographic location.

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, Pib said:

Oh come on....Thailand has a gazillion ATMs to slide a DirectExpress card into to get your payment benefit....ATMs on the sois...ATMs in the malls...ATMs everywhere.  That's why I didn't specifically mention that.

 

Yea, if you live out in the sticks you might have to drive a few kilometers to the nearest ATM....or if you live really, really in the sticks you may need to drive 10 to 20 kilometers or maybe a little further, but very few people will be in that situations.    I don't think that's going to qualify as a remote geographic region.   Yeap, thousands upon thosuands of bank branches and ATMs in Thailand...hardly a remote geographic location.

The cost is prohibitive and far more than the intent of the directexpress card as used in the States.  It discriminates against people who live in Thailand and is unfair.  Why should people retiring in Thailand have to pay more than other countries?  

I think they will have to grant the exemption until they can get things straightened out with Bank of Bangkok.  Not our fault and we should not be penalized for their failure to act.  Enough letters of inquiry to SS may solve the problem.     

[Pib]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

The cost is prohibitive and far more than the intent of the directexpress card as used in the States.  It discriminates against people who live in Thailand and is unfair.  Why should people retiring in Thailand have to pay more than other countries?  

Take that up with your elected representatives in Congress....and while doing that maybe also ask your representatives to get a law passed allowing Medicare Part A/B coverage outside the U.S.

[Jingthing]

Or American Citizens Abroad. The only lobbying organization for expats.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Pib said:

Take that up with your elected representatives in Congress....and while doing that maybe also ask your representatives to get a law passed allowing Medicare Part A/B coverage outside the U.S.

Why would I do that (this thread is about SS).  I think I can get a waiver to get a check mailed because of the actions of Bank of Bangkok and you don't.  No big deal.  One of us is correct and we will find out because I will apply for the waiver and report back here.  I have also asked SS in Manila and I think their first response will be to deny the Bangkok Bank action and the second reaction will be to blow me off but we shall see and I will report back here when they respond.  That is proactive and not just talk.  

[marcusarelus]

Now I'm confused.  From "New York Branch Help Desk" <[email protected]>

 

I wrote, "Currently I receive my Social Security deposit every month from the USA SS Administration.

After April 19, 2019 will I still be able to receive my Social Security payment in my Bank of Bangkok direct deposit account.?

 

New York Branch Help Desk" <[email protected]> wrote, "Should not be any problem because Social sending wire in the form of International format."

Best regards

 

[marcusarelus]

More confusion.  I just got the email below from SS Manila in response to my question, about getting SS payment after Apr 19.

 

"Good day,

Bangkok Bank will still accept Social Security payments.  However, beneficiaries receiving federal benefits (including Social Security benefits) must comply with NACHA and OFAC requirements effective April 1, 2019.  Please visit your Bangkok Bank branch to seek guidance for the requirements you must comply with to ensure continued receipt of your Social Security benefit payments through direct deposit at Bangkok Bank.

Thank you."

 

I restated my question and asked Manila SS why Bank of Bangkok would know what format American government would use after Apr 19. 

 

To my mind this whole thing started when Pib said he got information from Bank of Bangkok NY saying they were not going to accept SS payments after Apr. 19.  I wonder if Pib could give us his contact at Bank of Bangkok so we could email him and ask for clarification because I emailed Bank of Bangkok in NY and they said no problem after Apr 19.  Someone is misinformed either the information desk or Pib's contact.