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Sweden faces political deadlock after far-right gains


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19 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I think you're the sole Brexiter who doesn't blame the EU bureaucracy for stifling the UK economy.

Perhaps, but I can only relate my own experiences and they refer to my business  not the economy. I would also add that amongst a myriad of my customers, suppliers and European friends minor complaints are voiced (you wouldn't expect anything else), but have never heard them complain the EU is stifling or hard braking their business. I did not vote to leave for an easier life for my businesses, in fact for the first 5 years  I think I will be working marginally harder.

Any names on the leavers on TV or in the public eye who are complaining?

 

 

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4 hours ago, Grouse said:

Wanna bet? How about a grand coalition?

This I would like to see!!! The way all the alliance party leaders were spitting on S.

 

But personally, I think it is just bloody ridiculous the way everybody want to freeze out SD. After all, they represent a large portion ( 1100802 ) of voters. That's the size of greater Stockholm. Imagine if we would just ignore and freeze out all Stockholmers.

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After correction of a calculation error yesterday the spread of seats seems to be;

 

centre left/red block - 144 seats

centre right/blue block - 142 seats

SD 63 seats

 

there are still 200 000 - 300 000 votes left to count, these will be counted Wednesday

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7 hours ago, SpaceKadet said:

This I would like to see!!! The way all the alliance party leaders were spitting on S.

 

But personally, I think it is just bloody ridiculous the way everybody want to freeze out SD. After all, they represent a large portion ( 1100802 ) of voters. That's the size of greater Stockholm. Imagine if we would just ignore and freeze out all Stockholmers.

 

How would such a a coalition amount to "ignore and freeze"? The size and voters represented claim could be made in any scenario and election results ending with SD in the opposition, then. If (and I get it's a rather big if?) the two major parties band together as to block SD, that's still a legitimate choice. Not ideal, perhaps, but well within the acceptable range of choices.

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3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

How would such a a coalition amount to "ignore and freeze"? The size and voters represented claim could be made in any scenario and election results ending with SD in the opposition, then. If (and I get it's a rather big if?) the two major parties band together as to block SD, that's still a legitimate choice. Not ideal, perhaps, but well within the acceptable range of choices.

The two major parties will never band together, simply because they stand on the opposite sides of the political spectrum.

The four alliance party leaders have said that they will not work together with SD in any way whatsoever. Well, good luck. You cannot get rid of current PM on your own...

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34 minutes ago, SpaceKadet said:

The two major parties will never band together, simply because they stand on the opposite sides of the political spectrum.

The four alliance party leaders have said that they will not work together with SD in any way whatsoever. Well, good luck. You cannot get rid of current PM on your own...

sides of the political spectrum?

maybe could agree if you said sides of political centre

(no, this is not wordsmithing)

 

what does cannot get rid of PM on your own mean?

if he is launched as PM when the assembly meets, it only takes a no vote in the national assembly and he is out

 

 

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18 hours ago, Grouse said:

In what way?

 

As far as I can see, strong action has been taken and that is why the rise of SD has been limited.

Left European governments are creating racists citizens by floating our countries with ill intented immigrants that we don’t want to live in our streets.

Only in Poland and Hungary the governments do what their own people want. 

Swedish people were no racists but after your car been set on fire and ur niece got raped then eventually u become one!!!!

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4 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

sides of the political spectrum?

maybe could agree if you said sides of political centre

(no, this is not wordsmithing)

 

what does cannot get rid of PM on your own mean?

if he is launched as PM when the assembly meets, it only takes a no vote in the national assembly and he is out

 

 

Political center or spectrum, doesn't really matter. It's left versus right ideologies.

And it takes a MAJORITY no vote to oust the sitting PM. The alliance doesn't have that without the support of SD.

 

But we are just guessing in any case. Tomorrow is an important day, as is Friday.

Whatever happens, will have to happen before the start of the government in two weeks time.

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been looking at some news cuts today

 

seems to me that;

 

all parties in the blue block flatly refuse any kind of talks / coop with SD

all parties in the blue block request that the PM resigns

all parties in the blue block have 142 seats

red block with the current PM has 144 seats

(it is not clear to me what the red parties say re talks/deals with SD, as hard-nosed as the blue parties or?)

 

SD has 63 seats

 

tomorrow's counting of the rest of the votes may alter the seat distribution

 

 

I kinda doubt this will be sorted before the national assembly meets

the chairman of the assembly will have some busy days in the beginning of his tenure

 

(maybe some smaller parties will move from one block to the other?

 maybe blue parties will swallow some camels and initiate talks with SD?

 

 maybe we will see a minority government, might work just fine - Swedish politicians are reasonable disciplined and well behaved -

 very educational for politicians to work with minority governments)

 

 

 

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On 9/10/2018 at 5:24 AM, Mikeasq60 said:

Sweden your future falls on the right taking this election. Whats happening in your country now? Because of liberal policies that European countries are seeing was a mistake. Thailand what would happen if you followed Europe, and Sweden's policies? It would never happen right!

No you understand why Thailand will never let foreigners have a significant footprint in their country. They only have to look west, to see the silly little Europeans and the mess they got themselves into, 

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On 9/10/2018 at 10:32 PM, aright said:

Perhaps, but I can only relate my own experiences and they refer to my business  not the economy. I would also add that amongst a myriad of my customers, suppliers and European friends minor complaints are voiced (you wouldn't expect anything else), but have never heard them complain the EU is stifling or hard braking their business. I did not vote to leave for an easier life for my businesses, in fact for the first 5 years  I think I will be working marginally harder.

Any names on the leavers on TV or in the public eye who are complaining?

 

 

Given that the search function on TV is primitive, I've gone with the public eye instead

Is Boris Johnson prominent enough for you?

When you consider that only 6 per cent of UK business export to the EU 28; and when you consider that 100 per cent of our businesses – large and small – must comply with every jot and tittle of regulation; and when you consider that the costs of this regulation are estimated at £600m per week, I am afraid you are driven to the same conclusion as Wolfgang Munchau, the economics commentator of the FT, who said, “whatever the reasons may be for remaining in the EU, they are not economic.”

http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/05/boris-johnsons-speech-on-the-eu-referendum-full-text.html

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Given that the search function on TV is primitive, I've gone with the public eye instead

Is Boris Johnson prominent enough for you?

When you consider that only 6 per cent of UK business export to the EU 28; and when you consider that 100 per cent of our businesses – large and small – must comply with every jot and tittle of regulation; and when you consider that the costs of this regulation are estimated at £600m per week, I am afraid you are driven to the same conclusion as Wolfgang Munchau, the economics commentator of the FT, who said, “whatever the reasons may be for remaining in the EU, they are not economic.”

http://www.conservativehome.com/parliament/2016/05/boris-johnsons-speech-on-the-eu-referendum-full-text.html

 

 

 

Your reading and cognitive skills are appalling

whatever the reasons may be for remaining in the EU, they are not economic.”

 

This is what I wrote

Perhaps, but I can only relate my own experiences and they refer to my business  not the economy.

 

When you are in a hole bigger shovels aren't always the answer.

This ends it for me.

 

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19 minutes ago, aright said:

Your reading and cognitive skills are appalling

whatever the reasons may be for remaining in the EU, they are not economic.”

 

This is what I wrote

Perhaps, but I can only relate my own experiences and they refer to my business  not the economy.

 

When you are in a hole bigger shovels aren't always the answer.

This ends it for me.

 

So this wasn't a request from you?

"Any names on the leavers on TV or in the public eye who are complaining?"

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24 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

So this wasn't a request from you?

"Any names on the leavers on TV or in the public eye who are complaining?"

Yes it was but when you relate it to... "I think you're the sole Brexiter who doesn't blame the EU bureaucracy for stifling the UK economy".... its risible especially since out of 17.4 million Leavers you have found one complainer  who was talking economy and I was talking business. Well done you have maintained your reputation!

 

 

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On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 1:47 PM, Grouse said:

At the risk of being cast into the outer darkness by a mod for being off topic.....

 

Do any UK contributors see the beauty of Proportional Representation and coalition government? EVERYBODY gets a say and feels represented. The parties have to negotiate with each other to form s government. Works for me! (Would work for UKIP,  Lib Dems and Greens also I think - come to think about it, a Labour Party AND a Trot party AND a Numpty party)

Pure fantasy. dear boy not that I'm saying FPTP is perfect

The problem with PR is the horse trading doesn't begin until after the election so the punter doesn't know what he is voting for. Any manifesto promises are ignored or diluted by competing parties to effect a coalition.

In a PR system power resides not with the party with the largest number of seats but the party  who provided the least number of seats to give the coalition a majority. The main party dare not upset the minor party for fear they will leave the coalition making them a minority government or negotiate with another small party.

 

 

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3 hours ago, aright said:

Pure fantasy. dear boy not that I'm saying FPTP is perfect

The problem with PR is the horse trading doesn't begin until after the election so the punter doesn't know what he is voting for. Any manifesto promises are ignored or diluted by competing parties to effect a coalition.

In a PR system power resides not with the party with the largest number of seats but the party  who provided the least number of seats to give the coalition a majority. The main party dare not upset the minor party for fear they will leave the coalition making them a minority government or negotiate with another small party.

 

 

Yes, that's a fair point. Is there an optimal solution?

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6 hours ago, aright said:

Your reading and cognitive skills are appalling

whatever the reasons may be for remaining in the EU, they are not economic.”

 

This is what I wrote

Perhaps, but I can only relate my own experiences and they refer to my business  not the economy.

 

When you are in a hole bigger shovels aren't always the answer.

This ends it for me.

 

Your inconsistency is appealing and your manners are...what they are.

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11 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Yes, that's a fair point. Is there an optimal solution?

Optimal during my life experience in Canada has been minority government. Where the natural governing party, Liberals, were prompt up by the social democrats, NDP. That situation has given us our most iconic and enduring social programs like Medicare and the Canada Pension Plan. Should it happen again after the next election there is a very good chance a national pharma program will be established.

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5 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Your inconsistency is appealing and your manners are...what they are.

And your consistency shows you to be as ill informed today as when I joined this forum.Good manners are the noise you don't make when you are eating soup, and you make an awful a lot of noise.

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5 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes, that's a fair point. Is there an optimal solution?

If there is I don't have it. What is apparent however that under the FPTP system the UK Government is probably the only member state which contains no elected fascist. In the EU fascists have infiltrated and taken over political parties . No extreme right wingers has to be a plus doesn't it? I do see however that a party like UKIP who get 4 million votes at the general Election but end up with no MP's is patently unfair.

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15 minutes ago, aright said:

If there is I don't have it. What is apparent however that under the FPTP system the UK Government is probably the only member state which contains no elected fascist. In the EU fascists have infiltrated and taken over political parties . No extreme right wingers has to be a plus doesn't it? I do see however that a party like UKIP who get 4 million votes at the general Election but end up with no MP's is patently unfair.

 

not sure I agree with that,

or more correctly I am sure I disagree

 

if you have no extreme right wingers in parliament thats OK if they dont exist in the uk,

if you have a lot in uk they should be visible, keeping right wingers out by the design of the electoral system is pretty unfair and quite brown

no elected fascists? depends on the eyes looking; many in Europe would say that there are some pretty brown tories, blow job and retro mug comes to mind

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9 hours ago, aright said:

Pure fantasy. dear boy not that I'm saying FPTP is perfect

The problem with PR is the horse trading doesn't begin until after the election so the punter doesn't know what he is voting for. Any manifesto promises are ignored or diluted by competing parties to effect a coalition.

In a PR system power resides not with the party with the largest number of seats but the party  who provided the least number of seats to give the coalition a majority. The main party dare not upset the minor party for fear they will leave the coalition making them a minority government or negotiate with another small party.

 

 

 

True, but let's face it - manifesto promises are also frequently ignored or diluted down under our current FPTP system!

 

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes, that's a fair point. Is there an optimal solution?

 

We all hope so - but doubt it as politicians will always behave as politicians. i.e. Only concerned about furthering their own interests......☹️

 

The best I can come up with (and I apologise for saying this again), is an option on GE papers for 'none of the above'.

 

If enough vote for 'none of the above' then there's a small chance that politicians will be forced to address the reasons as to why they are so unpopular.

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6 hours ago, Grouse said:

Yes, that's a fair point. Is there an optimal solution?

no, there is not.

 

look; you want fair representation, across what?

 

ni, england, wales, scotland

political parties

urban / rural areas

geographical areas (north south west east - to do it very simple)

blue collar/white collar regions

farming / industry / fisheries

 

?

no easy match this

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

True, but let's face it - manifesto promises are also frequently ignored or diluted down under our current FPTP system!

 

 

We all hope so - but doubt it as politicians will always behave as politicians. i.e. Only concerned about furthering their own interests......☹️

 

The best I can come up with (and I apologise for saying this again), is an option on GE papers for 'none of the above'.

 

If enough vote for 'none of the above' then there's a small chance that politicians will be forced to address the reasons as to why they are so unpopular.

no, not true, it doesnt work the way aright describes,

not in sweden, not in denmark, not in norway, not in germany

 

 

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1 hour ago, aright said:

If there is I don't have it. What is apparent however that under the FPTP system the UK Government is probably the only member state which contains no elected fascist. In the EU fascists have infiltrated and taken over political parties . No extreme right wingers has to be a plus doesn't it? I do see however that a party like UKIP who get 4 million votes at the general Election but end up with no MP's is patently unfair.

I quite like the idea of a small bag of fascists, a small bag of communists, a small bag of vegans, a small bag of greens etc. At least they are visible. If UKIP had seats, both LAB and CON would be more electable.

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1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

no, there is not.

 

look; you want fair representation, across what?

 

ni, england, wales, scotland

political parties

urban / rural areas

geographical areas (north south west east - to do it very simple)

blue collar/white collar regions

farming / industry / fisheries

 

?

no easy match this

 

 

 

I don't think the problem nor the solution liess with how the legislative system is constructed. If you look at the nations that make a go of coalitions you'll find that they have a high level of income equality. So you have a large middle class with a commonality of interests.  Whereas in the UK you have massive inequality  in a system that's gamed to favor the rich.  In the wake of the recession, the Tories actually slashed taxes on the wealthy at the same time it imposed austerity on the social safety net. It was mostly those areas that suffered the most from austerity that ended up voting most strongly for Brexit. An unintended and ironic consequence that an ideologue like Cameron and other pro-EU Tories were and probably are too ill-equipped to appreciate.

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3 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

not sure I agree with that,

or more correctly I am sure I disagree

 

if you have no extreme right wingers in parliament thats OK if they dont exist in the uk,

if you have a lot in uk they should be visible, keeping right wingers out by the design of the electoral system is pretty unfair and quite brown

no elected fascists? depends on the eyes looking; many in Europe would say that there are some pretty brown tories, blow job and retro mug comes to mind

This is is a difficult one.  On the one hand I agree all opinions should be represented but in the case of extreme right wing parties the current situation in Europe is people are using right wing candidates as protest votes not because of the persuasion  of their  policies. I don't believe for one minute your average European is a fascist. The danger is they have no tangible appeal beyond protest however the vote gives their opinions and a possible hidden agenda traction in Parliament. I don't like that but do accept the validity of your argument.   

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