Sweden faces political deadlock after far-right gains

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, aright said:

This is is a difficult one.  On the one hand I agree all opinions should be represented but in the case of extreme right wing parties the current situation in Europe is people are using right wing candidates as protest votes not because of the persuasion  of their  policies. I don't believe for one minute your average European is a fascist. The danger is they have no tangible appeal beyond protest however the vote gives their opinions and a possible hidden agenda traction in Parliament. I don't like that but do accept the validity of your argument.   

Certainly the SD have one main policy - get rid of the Muslims. Their Euroscepticism is far far behind. In fact, actions taken by the existing government to reduce Muslim immigration (albeit belatedly) has actually kept the SD in check. They did their job IMO. (unlike UKIP who got the wrong target of course)

[Sir Dude]

Muslim (and African) immigration on this scale to the EU doesn't make sense to a basically Christian continent (try this sort of thing in the Muslim or Buddhist places in the world...no way). Why would you (as a Muslim) want to go live with the infidel in a culture you hold nothing but contempt for and are completely incompatible with (just for the sponging because your countries don't care for you, I guess)? Would you not be happier in a Sunni/Shiite or whatever country that is in sync with your beliefs, wants and, well, for lack of a better description...intolerance to others and their differing opinions? The liberal west is a soft target and what's going on is nothing other than infiltration and replacement in the long run...not hard to see the west's downfall due to this and certainly the EU's (which even they are trying to make a monumentally belated attempt to address....damage already done). And people wonder why the right is on the up...morons for not seeing it. Future historians will judge this part of time very harshly in like a hundred years...if they are still allowed due to the intention of so many to obliterate and challenge the past. 

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Sir Dude said:

Muslim (and African) immigration on this scale to the EU doesn't make sense to a basically Christian continent (try this sort of thing in the Muslim or Buddhist places in the world...no way). Why would you (as a Muslim) want to go live with the infidel in a culture you hold nothing but contempt for and are completely incompatible with (just for the sponging because your countries don't care for you, I guess)? Would you not be happier in a Sunni/Shiite or whatever country that is in sync with your beliefs, wants and, well, for lack of a better description...intolerance to others and their differing opinions? The liberal west is a soft target and what's going on is nothing other than infiltration and replacement in the long run...not hard to see the west's downfall due to this and certainly the EU's (which even they are trying to make a monumentally belated attempt to address....damage already done). And people wonder why the right is on the up...morons for not seeing it. Future historians will judge this part of time very harshly in like a hundred years...if they are still allowed due to the intention of so many to obliterate and challenge the past. 

I may be a bigot but I'm ahead of the curve ?

[melvinmelvin]

now, Sweden

 

 

Party			Votes	%	+/–	Seats	+/–
RED	Socialdemokraterna	S	1 775 651	28,4	–2,8	101	–12
BLUE	Moderaterna	M	1 236 496	19,8	–3,5	70	–14
SD	Sverigedemokraterna	SD	1 100 802	17,6	+4,7	63	+14
BLUE	Centerpartiet	C	537 185	8,6	+2,5	30	+8
RED	Vänsterpartiet	V	495 997	7,9	+2,2	28	+7
BLUE	Kristdemokraterna	KD	397 785	6,4	+1,8	23	+7
BLUE	Liberalerna	L	342 601	5,5	+0,1	19	0
RED	Miljöpartiet	MP	271 472	4,3	–2,4	15	–10
below	Feministiskt Initiativ	FI	27 741	0,4	–2,6	-	-
	Others	Övr	63 695	1,0	+0,1	-	-
RED	De rödgröna (S+MP+V)		2 543 120	40,6		144	–15
BLUE	Alliansen (M+C+L+KD)		2 514 067	40,3		142	+1
SD	Sverigedemokraterna (SD)		1 100 802	17,6	+4,7	63	+14
Invalid/blank votes			79 193	1,3	+0,4	–	–
Total			6 328 618	84,4	+1,1	349	0

 

 

 

this is  the latest that I have found, it does not include today's counting of early votes

(early votes often tend to be on the conservative side)

 

since the table is in Swedish, I have marked entries with blue/red and put headlines in English, hope it is understandable

 

smth I do not understand here;

on what basis does all the parties in the blue block demand (rather strongly) that the current red PM resigns?

the red block has more votes than the blue block

the red block has more seats than  the blue block

neither block has majority

the blue block has made it clear that coop with SD is out

 

why should the PM resign?

 

 

 

s-valg-Parti.docx

[HAKAPALITA]

Thailand got it right,come here with money or sod off.!.Even so a few ferangs manage to be E Beggars n Teachers not.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[melvinmelvin]

From ABC Nyheter on startsiden.no:

 

Suspicions re cheating and errors during the elections are growing.

 

The body that oversees elections has so far received 300 complaints,

most of the complaints address the general election, rather than local elections.

The police is involved in some instances.

 

New elections may be arranged in some areas.

 

 

hmm, not good, ie too bad

 

[Grouse]

Any indications of what coalition may result?

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Any indications of what coalition may result?

too early I think, the race is pretty close re the last 2-3 seats

they say final results (including re count) on Friday

 

unless some party (or more) change block,

there is no way around coop with SD if you want majority in the assembly

(except for blue-red coop in order to suppress SD)

 

[melvinmelvin]

Just looked at the www version of one the major Swedish newspapers, Svenska Dagbladet

 

they say the race for the last couple of seats is very very tight, and seats shift every hour

 

right now the Centre Party (blue) needs 7 votes to snatch the last seat from SD,

whilst the Liberal Party (blue) would another 700 votes to snatch a seat

 

I am hoping that there are some Swedes here who could explain the basis for

the blue parties demanding that the PM resigns.

The PM's block, red, is still bigger in both seats and votes.

 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

Certainly the SD have one main policy - get rid of the Muslims. Their Euroscepticism is far far behind. In fact, actions taken by the existing government to reduce Muslim immigration (albeit belatedly) has actually kept the SD in check. They did their job IMO. (unlike UKIP who got the wrong target of course)

Sweden could easily reduce immigration to virtually zero by introducing Surströmming challenge to it's borders. Anyone who wishes to enter Sweden, must eat one small fermented fish. ?

 

https://www.liveleak.com/e/sL4LL_1536685205

[melvinmelvin]

 

For those who don't know, what oilinki talks about is tinned small herring,

the fish ferments while in the tin.

Smells double crap, tastes likewise if you ask me.

 

The Swedes say that the fish has fermented enough and is ready to eat when the tins walk by themselves.

 

[Morch]

37 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

For those who don't know, what oilinki talks about is tinned small herring,

the fish ferments while in the tin.

Smells double crap, tastes likewise if you ask me.

 

The Swedes say that the fish has fermented enough and is ready to eat when the tins walk by themselves.

 

 

Doesn't sound like much of a challenge as far as some Thais and other SE Asians are concerned. They have their own varieties of such.

[melvinmelvin]

2 hours ago, melvinmelvin said:

Just looked at the www version of one the major Swedish newspapers, Svenska Dagbladet

 

they say the race for the last couple of seats is very very tight, and seats shift every hour

 

right now the Centre Party (blue) needs 7 votes to snatch the last seat from SD,

whilst the Liberal Party (blue) would another 700 votes to snatch a seat

 

I am hoping that there are some Swedes here who could explain the basis for

the blue parties demanding that the PM resigns.

The PM's block, red, is still bigger in both seats and votes.

 

 

Just looked at the www version of Dagens Nyheter, another very large Swedish newspaper

 

they say that as of midnight yesterday (Swedish time) they had not finished counting foreign and early votes.

 

the spread was red-144 blue-143 SD-62

the last 1-2  seats changes  all the time

 

counting probably done by Swedish lunch time today.

 

Then, everything, all votes, will be counted again, and seats re calcuated.

So Friday late afternoon . . . . .

 

 

[roobaa01]

on the 24.9.18 the current premier will be demoted after the mistrust vote being successful coz he will never secure 175 votes. red reign finished. none of the blue bloc supports the failed decade policy of redgreen , hence after 4 failed attempts to vote for a new prime minister sweden will run for new elections and sd for 24 %.

 

wbr

roobaa01

[melvinmelvin]

17 minutes ago, roobaa01 said:

on the 24.9.18 the current premier will be demoted after the mistrust vote being successful coz he will never secure 175 votes. red reign finished. none of the blue bloc supports the failed decade policy of redgreen , hence after 4 failed attempts to vote for a new prime minister sweden will run for new elections and sd for 24 %.

 

wbr

roobaa01

If SD strongly believes they will get more votes in a 2nd election,

that may very well be the outcome.

Will happen automatically if SD does not vote for the Speaker's PM proposals.

 

[SpaceKadet]

For Swedish speakers only!

If you haven't seen this short animation, it's a must!

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

6 hours ago, roobaa01 said:

on the 24.9.18 the current premier will be demoted after the mistrust vote being successful coz he will never secure 175 votes. red reign finished. none of the blue bloc supports the failed decade policy of redgreen , hence after 4 failed attempts to vote for a new prime minister sweden will run for new elections and sd for 24 %.

 

wbr

roobaa01

the new national assembly will meet on the 25th

 

seatholders will meet on the 24th to elect the speaker and vice speaker

 

if the speaker so decides, voting for PM may start on the 25th

 

all it takes for your scenario to happen is that SD refrains from voting when the speaker launches PM candidates

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

from www.val.se, the government body that oversees elections in Sweden,

 

current; red-block-144   blue-block-143   SD-62

 

there is 1 seat that shifts between SD and blue-block as counting proceeds

 

 

 

 

[roobaa01]

have also all voes been counted , which were sent by post ???

 

wbr

roobaa01

[melvinmelvin]

as far as I can see from news snippets all votes have now been counted and seats calculated

 

red-block-144  blue-block-143 SD-62

 

(now all votes will be counted again and seats re-calculated - this in order to weed out any errors)

 

vote counting and seat calculation are kinda tricky in Sweden due to the great flexibility and freedom offered to the voters.

it is way way more complex than just counting this and that vote for this and that party.

 

Swedish politicians are now kinda "wild" (in the wide open) re who can form a government.

 

anyway - on the 24th this month MPs will meet to elect the speaker and vice speaker.

 

The new national assembly will start off on 25th this month.

The first major task would be to agree on who could be PM and build a gov.

 

The speaker has 4 hacks at this, if the assembly rejects 4 proposed PMs then new elections will follow.

 

If SD should opt not to vote when the Speaker launches PM candidates new elections will automatically follow.

 

 

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

I'm still hoping for a Swede with good insight in Swedish politics to explain why and on which basis

all the blue parties STRONGLY demands that the red PM resigns.

 

after all, the red block has more votes and more seats than the blue block

 

 

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I'm still hoping for a Swede with good insight in Swedish politics to explain why and on which basis

all the blue parties STRONGLY demands that the red PM resigns.

 

after all, the red block has more votes and more seats than the blue block

 

 

 

I'm not a Swede, but as far as I understand, rejecting a Prime Minister requires an absolute majority voting against. The opposition currently got enough votes if the Blues and SD vote the same. I would imagine, though, that parties are reluctant to be seen as cooperating with the SD. Better for them if the Prime Minister resigns, then. Is the notion of holding new elections a popular one? If not, it would be one more reason to avoid being the side responsible for it. Also, new elections may end in different, perhaps less favorable results.

[Grouse]

If the prime minister falling on his sword would enable a grand coalition, I sure he would do it!

[melvinmelvin]

48 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I'm not a Swede, but as far as I understand, rejecting a Prime Minister requires an absolute majority voting against. The opposition currently got enough votes if the Blues and SD vote the same. I would imagine, though, that parties are reluctant to be seen as cooperating with the SD. Better for them if the Prime Minister resigns, then. Is the notion of holding new elections a popular one? If not, it would be one more reason to avoid being the side responsible for it. Also, new elections may end in different, perhaps less favorable results.

I think that rejecting a PM requires less than the majority voting YES.

 

Yes, all blue parties have flatly refused to talk to SD.

Probably the same on the red side, I would think.

 

I dont know,

my guess is that most Swedes would be totally pissed off if the national assembly cant build a gov and new elections will follow,

not sure if that has ever happened before.

 

my guess is that they will sort it out somehow

but that requires SD votes or a significant shift of parties between the blocks.

 

another aspect;

SD represents about 20% of the electorate,

how sustainable in the long run is it to refuse to talk to them?

 

 

 

 

 

[GinBoy2]

I am but a stupid American observer of European politics.

But have you not reaped what you have sown here?

My own country has been racked by divisions over immigration.

Although I count myself as a liberal, I still believe that immigration needs to be legal and controlled, including my own Grandparents who came from Mexico.

America was built on immigrants, but it was over time, that gives a society time to adjust and integrate.

Sweden is a small country, huge immigration as a % of population, in a very short period of time, and from what I read is predominantly male, is hugly socially disruptive.

Hope it all works out, but it's a tough row to hoe

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I think that rejecting a PM requires less than the majority voting YES.

 

Yes, all blue parties have flatly refused to talk to SD.

Probably the same on the red side, I would think.

 

I dont know,

my guess is that most Swedes would be totally pissed off if the national assembly cant build a gov and new elections will follow,

not sure if that has ever happened before.

I don't know how polarised Swedish coalitions currently are, but if it's anything like in Finland, those should be quite flexible. 

 

Some more centrist parties of either blue or red side, would come together with the other side is quite common thing in Finnish politics. Normally cabinet wishes to have at least two smaller parties, which each gives majority in the parliament, to avoid one smaller party to have ability to 'blackmail' the larger portion of the coalition.

 

If there are too many smaller parties creating the cabinet, it can also be rather unfunctional. We had this for 4 years. Four years of inefficient government is not good for any country. 

 

We don't have vote for prime minister to resign, but the whole cabinet to resign, which requires 51% parliament to support special type of vote in the parliament. These votes can be weekly occurrences, but normally not so often. If more than 50% of the members of the parliament vote not to support current government, then the cabinet must resign and there will be new elections. 

 

I assume that Swedish and Finnish parliament systems are quite alike. We would need a Swede to say the final word. 

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

I think that rejecting a PM requires less than the majority voting YES.

 

Yes, all blue parties have flatly refused to talk to SD.

Probably the same on the red side, I would think.

 

I dont know,

my guess is that most Swedes would be totally pissed off if the national assembly cant build a gov and new elections will follow,

not sure if that has ever happened before.

 

my guess is that they will sort it out somehow

but that requires SD votes or a significant shift of parties between the blocks.

 

another aspect;

SD represents about 20% of the electorate,

how sustainable in the long run is it to refuse to talk to them?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rejecting the PM requires the majority (but an absolute majority - 175 votes) voting against the appointment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Sweden#Formation_and_dismissal

 

I think that the opposition might feel that it would lose credibility if it abstained, but on the other hand the same goes for cooperating with SD. Considering the margin is very narrow, and that, in effect, most votes are not supportive of the PM, they would also be loath to lose the opportunity. Quite a bind there.

 

SD represents 20% of the current votes, yes. Does this mean 20% of the Swedes are fully behind it - I dunno. What comes to mind (and granted, different country, different circumstances) is how things went down in France. The right's success at earlier stages of the elections, served to scare voters in supporting anyone likely to block them. 

 

There's no obligation to include any party in a coalition or even cooperate with it. Sustainable is a question of whether SD can maintain voter support. If next government manages to address some of the related issues, less of problem, probably.

[My Thai Life]

On 9/10/2018 at 10:51 AM, bristolboy said:

Their share of the vote increased by 4.9 percent from 4 years ago. Hardly a surge.

Let me help you with the statistics. Their share increased by around 37% and previously had doubled. Now giving them a pivotal position.

[melvinmelvin]

5 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Rejecting the PM requires the majority (but an absolute majority - 175 votes) voting against the appointment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_of_Sweden#Formation_and_dismissal

 

I think that the opposition might feel that it would lose credibility if it abstained, but on the other hand the same goes for cooperating with SD. Considering the margin is very narrow, and that, in effect, most votes are not supportive of the PM, they would also be loath to lose the opportunity. Quite a bind there.

 

SD represents 20% of the current votes, yes. Does this mean 20% of the Swedes are fully behind it - I dunno. What comes to mind (and granted, different country, different circumstances) is how things went down in France. The right's success at earlier stages of the elections, served to scare voters in supporting anyone likely to block them. 

 

There's no obligation to include any party in a coalition or even cooperate with it. Sustainable is a question of whether SD can maintain voter support. If next government manages to address some of the related issues, less of problem, probably.

 

thanks, seems you are right

PM is not elected on the basis of expressed support but on the basis of opposition not being expressed,

 

guess that is OK provided the Speaker does some solid footwork before launching a candidate PM

 

 

[roobaa01]

the house speaker is the second highest office in sweden after the king. as i understand for the election to win the office the mayority of existing members is needed 175-349 hence constituting parliament can already fail, if no speaker is elected ??

 

wbr

roobaa01