Making your own pizza

[Rhys]

... it is all in the crust...

[Scott]

Some abusive, off-topic posts have been removed.   Continue and face a suspension.

 

[KneeDeep]

Before anyone, in particular, attempts to accuse me of abuse, I should state that I have a girlfriend from Capri. Have been on Via Pignasecca many times.

She is genuinely offended that someone who has never even been to Napoli to even taste a pizza there, is claiming to make Neapolitan pizza. 

It might be acceptable if, there was at the very least, an attempt to utilise authentic ingredients.

Then can claim 'in the style of'.

But I've read nothing of Mozzarella di Bufala Campana or even a Fior Di Latte from the region.

Tomatoes from where? Fresh Italian basil?

Pizza Napoletana is a very specific kind of pizza and it certainly does not have sausage on it.

 

It doesn't only offend her, but it offends me too. 

 

We are passionate about our food here. ?

 

[marcusarelus]

Pizza is classified by dough.  There is thick Chicago style or thin NYC style or Square Detroit style or Roman style.  Each has it's affectionados.  You don't have to go to Chicago to make Chicago style pizza.  Pizza has nothing to do with location but ingredients and process.  Below is Neapolitan pizza.  I make my dough with no oil.  Basic recipe.

 

Combine flour, salt, and yeast in a large bowl. Add water and mix until no dry flour remains on bottom of bowl. Cover bowl tightly with plastic wrap and allow to rise at room temperature for 8 to 12 hours.

 

Place dough in a covered container or in a zipper-lock freezer bag. Place in refrigerator and allow to rise at least 2 more days, and up to 4. Remove from refrigerator, shape into balls, and allow to rest at room temperature for at least 2 hours before baking.

 

You have to answer a lot more questions.   What kind of flour?  What kind of yeast? Filtered water?  Do you cover the bowl with plastic wrap or the pizza dough?  A thousand variables before we even get to what to put on the top of the pizza and baking temp and equipment. 

 

First question to ask is what about adding oil to the flour before mixing?  Yes or no and why? What kind of yeast?  Do you use a poolish or sourdough starter alone or add instant yeast or bakers yeast? 

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You have to answer a lot more questions.   What kind of flour?  What kind of yeast? Filtered water?

Always white bread flour, only instant yeast is easily available, water doesn't matter.

I throw it in the bread machine on the 'ferment' setting, works perfectly every time.

[worgeordie]

24 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Pizza is classified by dough.  There is thick Chicago style or thin NYC style or Square Detroit style or Roman style.  Each has it's affectionados.  You don't have to go to Chicago to make Chicago style pizza.  Pizza has nothing to do with location but ingredients and process.  Below is Neapolitan pizza.  I make my dough with no oil.  Basic recipe.

 

Combine flour, salt, and yeast in a large bowl. Add water and mix until no dry flour remains on bottom of bowl. Cover bowl tightly with plastic wrap and allow to rise at room temperature for 8 to 12 hours.

 

Place dough in a covered container or in a zipper-lock freezer bag. Place in refrigerator and allow to rise at least 2 more days, and up to 4. Remove from refrigerator, shape into balls, and allow to rest at room temperature for at least 2 hours before baking.

 

You have to answer a lot more questions.   What kind of flour?  What kind of yeast? Filtered water?  Do you cover the bowl with plastic wrap or the pizza dough?  A thousand variables before we even get to what to put on the top of the pizza and baking temp and equipment. 

 

First question to ask is what about adding oil to the flour before mixing?  Yes or no and why? What kind of yeast?  Do you use a poolish or sourdough starter alone or add instant yeast or bakers yeast? 

You go through all that process just to make them ?,not impressed.

regards Worgeordie

[marcusarelus]

21 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Always white bread flour, only instant yeast is easily available, water doesn't matter.

I throw it in the bread machine on the 'ferment' setting, works perfectly every time.

I have available 4 or 5 kinds of bread flour.  Which one to use?

[wgdanson]

10 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Flour, water, salt, yeast. 

 

Let me know when you have grown your sourdough starter and have an oven that will heat to 350c

Oooh we are touchy. I have Googled pizza dough and so many different recipes/mixtures/methods come up, some needing as you say, a sour dough starter, others simply mixing & kneading the four ingredients (no olive oil in yours? )

[wgdanson]

11 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Lazada has them or any unglazed tile.  But you must have a hot oven.  I've found 350 c is as low as you can go.

You bake it at the BOTTOM of the oven??

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

You bake it at the BOTTOM of the oven??

on stone

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Oooh we are touchy. I have Googled pizza dough and so many different recipes/mixtures/methods come up, some needing as you say, a sour dough starter, others simply mixing & kneading the four ingredients (no olive oil in yours? )

Sorry didn't mean to be but can't make my recipe without sourdough starter.

[Gecko123]

@marcusarelus

 

This is the brand of yeast I have recently started to use for bread and pizza dough and have been very satisfied with results (haven't found at large supermarkets, but available in some mom and pop shops):

 

Regarding the pizza pics you shared above, would offer the following tips:

Spread toppings further out to edge of crust (for more aesthetic appearance);

lower upper heating element temperature or bake pizza on center rack instead of upper rack (crust and toppings should not be burnt);

try rolling dough out thinner (unless you really like thick crust);

underside of pizza appears to be somewhat undercooked (may benefit from pizza stone and if using pizza stone already, make sure pizza stone is preheated before putting pizza in oven);

take the stems off of fresh herbs before putting on the pizza, and

consider adding parmesan cheese later or after out of oven (has tendency to burn quicker than other cheeses)

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

I have available 4 or 5 kinds of bread flour.  Which one to use?

I always use TFM bread flour, mainly because it's 32bht/kg in YoK.

 

 

 

 

 

[BritManToo]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

This is the brand of yeast I have recently started to use for bread and pizza dough and have been very satisfied with results

I use fermipan red, again from Yok, around 100bht/500gm

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Sorry didn't mean to be but can't make my recipe without sourdough starter.

But you do not tell us your special recipe. Please share with all us pizza lovers.

[wgdanson]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

ower upper heating element temperature or bake pizza on center rack instead of upper rack

Marcus's photo showed his stone at the bottom shelf of the oven

[wgdanson]

On 9/10/2018 at 8:44 PM, marcusarelus said:

First you need an oven that can heat to 350c

I doubt whether ANY domestic ovens will go to that temperature......that's 663 Fahrenheit.

[marcusarelus]

13 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

But you do not tell us your special recipe. Please share with all us pizza lovers.

It changes depending on the flour or the amount of time I have to ferment or what kind of flour I use in the starter.  Sometimes the starter is refreshed and sometimes it's not.  I don't use oil in the dough except to coat the dough ball when rising and I don't do that all the time.  

 

My recipe is always changing maybe I'll get some ideas here and it will change again.  We all deal with what we have.  I have an OK stone and an oven that cooks convection or super heated steam to 350 c.  If I could only cook to 250 the recipe would be different.  Some days I want Neapolitan and some days focaccia bread  with tomato and cheese on top.  Some days I like fresh mozzarella and some days shredded from a package because I don't want to go the store. 

[marcusarelus]

16 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

I doubt whether ANY domestic ovens will go to that temperature......that's 663 Fahrenheit.

Toshiba, Hitachi and I'm sure others available in Thailand.  Hitachi Operating time is five minutes at maximum heat.
300℃ only works with Preheat (MRO-NBK5000E, AV200E)
Automatically reduces from 300℃ to 250℃ (MRO-NBK5000E, AV200E)
Automatically reduces from 250℃ to 230℃ (MRO-AV100E)

 

A guy posting here says the MEX goes to 375 c I think.  From what I've read in other threads there are many misconceptions that will have to be dealt with to arrive at a good pizza.  One lady in another thread says real mozzarella costs a fortune here and hard to find - both not true.   

[marcusarelus]

27 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Marcus's photo showed his stone at the bottom shelf of the oven

Not really my stone.  Mine will cook in the upper or lower rack.  Don't know that it makes much difference (convection should be the same).  I'll temp it and see.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

@marcusarelus

 

This is the brand of yeast I have recently started to use for bread and pizza dough and have been very satisfied with results (haven't found at large supermarkets, but available in some mom and pop shops):

 

Regarding the pizza pics you shared above, would offer the following tips:

Spread toppings further out to edge of crust (for more aesthetic appearance);

lower upper heating element temperature or bake pizza on center rack instead of upper rack (crust and toppings should not be burnt);

try rolling dough out thinner (unless you really like thick crust);

underside of pizza appears to be somewhat undercooked (may benefit from pizza stone and if using pizza stone already, make sure pizza stone is preheated before putting pizza in oven);

take the stems off of fresh herbs before putting on the pizza, and

consider adding parmesan cheese later or after out of oven (has tendency to burn quicker than other cheeses)

I like puffy edges.  I like a little char on the pizza.  I don't roll the dough.  Underside not cooked because of semolina flour on peel and stone.  I don't care about stems.  I put the Parmesan on top of the tomato sauce and it never burns.  Those aren't my pizza in the photo.  I was in a hurry and pulled them off the net but they look like mine.  

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

You go through all that process just to make them ?,not impressed.

regards Worgeordie

I didn't even mention the two weeks necessary to make the sourdough starter (yeast) and the hour preheat for the oven. 

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

I like puffy edges.  I like a little char on the pizza.  I don't roll the dough.  Underside not cooked because of semolina flour on peel and stone.  I don't care about stems.  I put the Parmesan on top of the tomato sauce and it never burns.  Those aren't my pizza in the photo.  I was in a hurry and pulled them off the net but they look like mine.  

If I got pizzas like that in a restaurant, I would send 'em back, even in Italy. As for puffy edges.............everyone to their own. lol

[wgdanson]

12 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Not really my stone.  Mine will cook in the upper or lower rack.  Don't know that it makes much difference (convection should be the same).  I'll temp it and see.

Being a chef myself, I know that the top of ANY oven is hotter than the bottom because heat rises, evens out a bit if you use the fan. I have a Zanussi and the top temperature on the dial is 250C or 470F, so no pizzas for me.

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

If I got pizzas like that in a restaurant, I would send 'em back, even in Italy. As for puffy edges.............everyone to their own. lol

Puffy edges, one reason why I make my own and my own sourdough.  It is native sourdough to my soi in Thailand.  Nothing anywhere is going to taste the same. 

 

Then I'm old and forget to put in stuff or make some other simple mistake which changes the whole thing.  Last night I forgot to put in yeast.  I had the sourdough yeast in so it rose but not the Belgian yeast (inventor of instant yeast).  Sometimes I use the store bought yeast and sometimes not and sometimes I forget. 

[Gecko123]

@marcusarelus

Please share where you are purchasing all these flour brands (post #37 and #55) which I have never seen available in Thailand.

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

@marcusarelus

Please share where you are purchasing all these flour brands (post #37 and #55) which I have never seen available in Thailand.

Tops and Makro and Foodland and my local mom and pop and Lotus.  Never had a problem getting them. Actually I think I have had the best results with Lotus bread flour.  Also the cheapest.

[Gecko123]

51 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

If I got pizzas like that in a restaurant, I would send 'em back, even in Italy. As for puffy edges.............everyone to their own. lol

The pizza king likes eating puffy burnt crusts with undercooked bottoms, gluey mats of parmesan cheese, unevenly spread toppings and don't hold back with the basil stems. Has been making pizza for 40 years but has to rely on pictures of pizzas and pizza stones downloaded from the internet to illustrate his handiwork? Hmmmm. #What's wrong with this pizza?

[Sheryl]

I make my own puzza in a regular gas oven. It does not lust the temp but at full heat it is certainly more than 350.

No stone.

I lightly cook the crust first. Then add the sauce and cheese and cook fully. If I don't lightly pre cook the crust it will not be crisp enough.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[marcusarelus]

15 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

The pizza king likes eating puffy burnt crusts with undercooked bottoms, gluey mats of parmesan cheese, unevenly spread toppings and don't hold back with the basil stems. Has been making pizza for 40 years but has to rely on pictures of pizzas and pizza stones downloaded from the internet to illustrate his handiwork? Hmmmm. #What's wrong with this pizza?

If you post a photo on Thai Visa that has been posted previously on the internet people can search the image and find out who you are.  I have enough stalkers here now without putting my name and address up to get some more.  Now do you understand that?  Simple enough?  How do you know the bottom is undercooked without looking at the bottom? Answer?  You don't you are just pizza flaming.  Did I ever say I was a pizza king?  No?  Pizza flaming again.   Lets look at some puffy crust with stems photos from leading pizza restaurants in Naples.  Take your flames and go home.