CM Immigration Q&A (2018)

[Mapguy]

Thank you for the "document-by-document" report. A careful report like yours from time to time is useful to stay up-to-date.

 

There was one surprise in it for me:

 

-A copy of every page in my passport that had information or a stamp on it, as requested.  

 

Over the years I have been asked for copies of pages with past extension.! Previous extensions, yes; every page, no. My new passport has the transfer page, but there is no detail of previous activity except for notation of my original entry and the stamps noting the change from Non-OA to NON-RE visa class.  There has been more than five years worth of action since changing to the new passport, but I've not been asked for the subsequent pages recording every action ONLY (and this is as of

late June)  copies of the pages noting previous extensions.  For those doing a lot of traveling in and out of Thailand, quite a number of pages could result over the years if every page were needed.

 

 

[Tracyb]

46 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Thank you for the "document-by-document" report. A careful report like yours from time to time is useful to stay up-to-date.

 

There was one surprise in it for me:

 

-A copy of every page in my passport that had information or a stamp on it, as requested.  

 

Over the years I have been asked for copies of pages with past extension.! Previous extensions, yes; every page, no. My new passport has the transfer page, but there is no detail of previous activity except for notation of my original entry and the stamps noting the change from Non-OA to NON-RE visa class.  There has been more than five years worth of action since changing to the new passport, but I've not been asked for the subsequent pages recording every action ONLY (and this is as of

late June)  copies of the pages noting previous extensions.  For those doing a lot of traveling in and out of Thailand, quite a number of pages could result over the years if every page were needed.

 

 

I know, right?!

The instruction sheet they handed out specifically asked for every page so....I obliged!

[Mapguy]

You are correct.  The disconnect is in the specificity and clarity of the instructions.  They mean pages with extension information. Now, if you and I, English speakers, were trying to say what we mean, especially with such detail, in Thai how successful would we be ?!  I was simply trying to clarify what is really expected.

 

One of the continuing problems, generally, is that there is a disconnect in translation, which should be expected.  The unfortunate aspect is that too many foreigners lambast their hosts, calling them ignorant, etc.  Well, people might learn not to be so critical, as in --- as GBS put it (sort of) -- "Why can't the English teach their children how to speak....?!"  (True, he didn't mean exactly the same!) So, why should the Thais........?

 

Shouldn't we remember where we are?

 

Anyway, photocopies are cheap!  Have at it!

[cusanus]

16 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

"Why can't the English teach their children how to speak....?!"  (True, he didn't mean exactly the same!) So, why should the Thais........?

Shouldn't we remember where we are?

I've always given them a copy of every page, that way there's less room for a mistake. Yes, I know, I should try harder. I certainly don't criticize Thai people for not having a perfect grasp of English except when they drag people into court and use it as an excuse to shove the evidence under the table and hijack my wallet. Well, not me so far, but two people close to me. I also learned from such experiences to compile and organize ALL the evidence at the first hearing, because that will be the last opportunity for the next five years, not that they would have read it anyway whether in English or Thai. I've never had any complaints for overdoing it, though, I have a terrific knack for being ignored.

[CMBob]

On 9/13/2019 at 5:24 AM, Mapguy said:

There was one surprise in it for me:

 

-A copy of every page in my passport that had information or a stamp on it, as requested.  

It seems to vary year to year and officer to officer with respect to what documents they want for an extension based on retirement.  While most years they don't ask me for a signed copy of my passport page showing the original Non-O, a few times they've asked for a signed copy of that (which makes some sense as all annual extensions are based on that original Non-O).  A couple of years back, I presented all the normal documents and then the officer asked for a signed copy of every single filled-out page of my passport including pages with stamps from other countries (and the officer was rather surprised when I simply reached into my folder and provided same).

 

The safe thing, it seems, is to take along with you a complete signed copy of everything in your passport just in case the given officer requests it.  

[Mapguy]

Really can't argue with that.  But I still have to report that it has not varied from year to year or from officer to officer with me.  Yes, there are exceptions; the TM30 business, for example.  Guess I have been fortunate.

 

All in all, remember that the Immigration Officer reviewing the file can ask for anything he or she wants.  That can be frustrating and confusing in reports on ThaiVisa since experiences do vary and the reports are often not complete.

 

I sometimes wonder --- and this is not a criticism of you, CMBob ---  if how expats approach the situation affects the outcome. To be prepared with necessary copies is not a bad idea, if you feel comfortable doing that. Otherwise, what about attitude, dress and appearance?  Might those make a difference sometimes? Perhaps. I have found individual officers basically professional and pleasant.

[chingmai331]

I went last December to apply for my one-year retirement extension.  Was told by on IO lady how well dressed i was that morning. She liked my pink striped shirt, collared and well-pressed.

But not my shirt, nor my shiny shoes and body perfume, had any effect on my application, since she gave me only 30 days.

[cusanus]

40 minutes ago, chingmai331 said:

I went last December to apply for my one-year retirement extension.  Was told by on IO lady how well dressed i was that morning. She liked my pink striped shirt, collared and well-pressed. But not my shirt, nor my shiny shoes and body perfume, had any effect on my application, since she gave me only 30 days.

A passport, proof of income, etc? That might help.

[Tracyb]

11 hours ago, CMBob said:

It seems to vary year to year and officer to officer with respect to what documents they want for an extension based on retirement.  While most years they don't ask me for a signed copy of my passport page showing the original Non-O, a few times they've asked for a signed copy of that (which makes some sense as all annual extensions are based on that original Non-O).  A couple of years back, I presented all the normal documents and then the officer asked for a signed copy of every single filled-out page of my passport including pages with stamps from other countries (and the officer was rather surprised when I simply reached into my folder and provided same).

 

The safe thing, it seems, is to take along with you a complete signed copy of everything in your passport just in case the given officer requests it.  

In follow up to my original post......

Heres a copy of the page that CM IMM handed to me last week when I asked what was needed for a Retirement Extension.

 

Note #3.

 

Since I take these things quite literally I obliged with every page of my passport.  Others might choose another path and obtain the same outcome I did.  Others may not be so, shall we say, lucky.

[amexpat]

I always let the copy shop handle the copies. About three pages from the passport.

 

I've never shown proof of residence other than the TM30 that I had this year for the first time. 

 

It's telling that 2/3 of the page above is about ..... money.  

[Sparkles]

Old scout motto "Be prepared"

For my retirement extension last January I took photocopies of all pages of my nearly expired passport which covered annual CM retirement extensions back 6-7 years.Surely most of no importance, or interest, apart from the pedantic officers request.

 

The officer also questioned why my BB investment account only showed 800,000 baht ?

I replied politely "Because that's the law" "Hmph you should have more" as she stamped the copies away.

 

I have a plastic carry case which is about 4 cm deep,specifically for Imm visits, and is constantly topped up with yet more paperwork. 

 

Hopefully I wont get the same lady who was that day attending to the "volunteer visa" application desk.

 

My wife and I just went through the TM 30 registration of my Daughter and Grandson staying with us for 10 days .A heads up if your wife, as the house owner, is not already registered don't go on the weekends as we did.We were greeted by 3 very pleasant lady officers on floor 1 who simply can't use the system to record your details so it meant going back again the next day. They insisted we have our photo taken with them ????

 

 

 

[JimGant]

23 minutes ago, Sparkles said:

My wife and I just went through the TM 30 registration of my Daughter and Grandson staying with us for 10 days

Why would you even bother?

[Thailand]

We have a letter from the British Consulate in Chiang Mai from 2011 notarizing our marriage certificate which is required for dependent extension of stay. 

Nothing has changed in that time, we are still married, the letter still clearly notarizes our marriage.We have used it for 8 consequetive extensions of stay.

When we did our last extension of stay we were told that the notarized letter is old and next year we need a new one or we won't get our extension.

This I guess would require a couple of trips to the BE in Bangkok which I assume is still there?

This just sees yet another extreme from immigration which I guess is not a law just an IO whim?     

[Konini]

1 hour ago, Thailand said:

When we did our last extension of stay we were told that the notarized letter is old and next year we need a new one or we won't get our extension.

...

This I guess would require a couple of trips to the BE in Bangkok which I assume is still there? 

It's a bit more complicated I'm afraid.  They haven't been accepting the letter from the embassy  for about 4 years, you've been a bit lucky to get away with it.  My husband's retirement extension is 6 months out from mine, we're always in UK when mine is due so I've been mailing it to Thai embassy in London for maybe 7 years now.  That's changed and I have to do it here next year, I got mine just a few days before the announcement in May.

 

When the changes came in, it was a 3 stage process of seemingly mindless bureaucracy.  Firstly get a copy of your marriage certificate and have it certified by the FCO.  This is all done online with a credit card, it took about 3 days.  The mailing address I gave them for it was for the Thai embassy in London, and I sent them an email letting them know that it was coming and that I needed it to be certified and gave my credit card number for the fee, about GPB10 I think, and I asked them to mail it to my mother's address.  No problems at all, all very easy.  When I finally got to see the certificate, it was a full print out of the certificate, identical to the one I have, and on the back it was certified by the FCO, and a second stamp certifying that the FCO certification was genuine from the Thai embassy.  This was always OK to use in UK, I have provided a copy of this every year, didn't need to use the marriage certificate in Thailand so I didn't bother with the 3rd and final step; having the Thai embassy (certified) certification certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  This was surprisingly easy, go to office, clearly marked and easy to find in a maze of government offices, show passport, couple of photocopies of it, fill in a form, pay (I think) 200 baht and come back the following day to pick it up.  Now I can legally use the marriage certificate, complete with 3 certification stamps, here in Thailand.

 

I would suggest that you send an email to the Thai embassy in London just to let them know what you are going to do, then get the certified copy from the FCO sent to them.  I would further suggest that you have the Thai embassy mail the certified copy to someone in UK and have them send it to you here registered mail if the embassy won't do registered post for international mail - they probably do, asking the question can be the opener for starting a conversation about this with them.

 

Then, as I said, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 200 baht and done.  It's actually far less painful than I imagined it would be.

 

EDIT:  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is in the government complex at Chiang Puak

[Thailand]

10 minutes ago, Konini said:

It's a bit more complicated I'm afraid.  They haven't been accepting the letter from the embassy  for about 4 years, you've been a bit lucky to get away with it.  My husband's retirement extension is 6 months out from mine, we're always in UK when mine is due so I've been mailing it to Thai embassy in London for maybe 7 years now.  That's changed and I have to do it here next year, I got mine just a few days before the announcement in May.

 

When the changes came in, it was a 3 stage process of seemingly mindless bureaucracy.  Firstly get a copy of your marriage certificate and have it certified by the FCO.  This is all done online with a credit card, it took about 3 days.  The mailing address I gave them for it was for the Thai embassy in London, and I sent them an email letting them know that it was coming and that I needed it to be certified and gave my credit card number for the fee, about GPB10 I think, and I asked them to mail it to my mother's address.  No problems at all, all very easy.  When I finally got to see the certificate, it was a full print out of the certificate, identical to the one I have, and on the back it was certified by the FCO, and a second stamp certifying that the FCO certification was genuine from the Thai embassy.  This was always OK to use in UK, I have provided a copy of this every year, didn't need to use the marriage certificate in Thailand so I didn't bother with the 3rd and final step; having the Thai embassy (certified) certification certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  This was surprisingly easy, go to office, clearly marked and easy to find in a maze of government offices, show passport, couple of photocopies of it, fill in a form, pay (I think) 200 baht and come back the following day to pick it up.  Now I can legally use the marriage certificate, complete with 3 certification stamps, here in Thailand.

 

I would suggest that you send an email to the Thai embassy in London just to let them know what you are going to do, then get the certified copy from the FCO sent to them.  I would further suggest that you have the Thai embassy mail the certified copy to someone in UK and have them send it to you here registered mail if the embassy won't do registered post for international mail - they probably do, asking the question can be the opener for starting a conversation about this with them.

 

Then, as I said, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 200 baht and done.  It's actually far less painful than I imagined it would be.

 

EDIT:  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is in the government complex at Chiang Puak

Thanks.

 

We go together with the wife as dependent, not quite the same as your situation?

[cusanus]

1 hour ago, Konini said:

It's a bit more complicated I'm afraid.  They haven't been accepting the letter from the embassy  for about 4 years, you've been a bit lucky to get away with it.  ...

 

When the changes came in, it was a 3 stage process of seemingly mindless bureaucracy.  Firstly get a copy of your marriage certificate and have it certified by the FCO.  This is all done online with a credit card, it took about 3 days.  The mailing address I gave them for it was for the Thai embassy in London, and I sent them an email letting them know that it was coming and that I needed it to be certified and gave my credit card number for the fee, about GPB10 I think, and I asked them to mail it to my mother's address.  No problems at all, all very easy.  When I finally got to see the certificate, it was a full print out of the certificate, identical to the one I have, and on the back it was certified by the FCO, and a second stamp certifying that the FCO certification was genuine from the Thai embassy.  This was always OK to use in UK, I have provided a copy of this every year, didn't need to use the marriage certificate in Thailand so I didn't bother with the 3rd and final step; having the Thai embassy (certified) certification certified by the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.  This was surprisingly easy, go to office, clearly marked and easy to find in a maze of government offices, show passport, couple of photocopies of it, fill in a form, pay (I think) 200 baht and come back the following day to pick it up.  Now I can legally use the marriage certificate, complete with 3 certification stamps, here in Thailand.

 

I would suggest that you send an email to the Thai embassy in London just to let them know what you are going to do, then get the certified copy from the FCO sent to them.  I would further suggest that you have the Thai embassy mail the certified copy to someone in UK and have them send it to you here registered mail if the embassy won't do registered post for international mail - they probably do, asking the question can be the opener for starting a conversation about this with them.

 

Then, as I said, Ministry of Foreign Affairs, 200 baht and done.  It's actually far less painful than I imagined it would be.

 

EDIT:  The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is in the government complex at Chiang Puak

You call that eezy peezy? Now I know I have Alzheimer's. God help me. What is an FCO?

[HullyGully]

I have two questions:-

 

1. Once you have been through this procedure, the legalised Marriage Certificate is then good for future years / extensions?

2. If my wife and I both have our own  extensions, then this Marriage Certificate requirement is not applicable

[Thailand]

12 hours ago, HullyGully said:

I have two questions:-

 

1. Once you have been through this procedure, the legalised Marriage Certificate is then good for future years / extensions?

2. If my wife and I both have our own  extensions, then this Marriage Certificate requirement is not applicable

No and yes.

 

As in my earlier post we have in fact used the same certification (almost) for 17 years only to be told this year it is no longer acceptable.

[Thailand]

14 hours ago, cusanus said:

You call that eezy peezy? Now I know I have Alzheimer's. God help me. What is an FCO?

Foreign & Commonwealth Office.

[HullyGully]

In previous years i would apply for an extension for myself and a dependant extension for my UK wife

 

I would produce my marriage certificate and a Letter of Certification from the British Consulate Chiang Mai. Both was acceptable

 

Thailand / Konini are you saying the FCO / Thai Embassy procedure has to NEW every year and CNX IM will not accept previous FCO / Thai Embassy documents

 

 

[Thailand]

No, we are simply saying they can and will and have changed the rules and are quite capable of doing it again.

[Sparkles]

On 9/17/2019 at 3:40 PM, JimGant said:

Why would you even bother?

Just following the current law Jim.More my wife's idea, as the house owner, than mine.

[Konini]

On 9/17/2019 at 4:58 PM, Thailand said:

Thanks.

 

We go together with the wife as dependent, not quite the same as your situation?

Yes, Mr K has a Non-O (retirement) and I am his dependent.  Following a high flying career, I've been reduced to being one of my husband's good and chattels  ????

[Konini]

22 hours ago, cusanus said:

You call that eezy peezy? Now I know I have Alzheimer's. God help me. What is an FCO?

Foreign and Commonwealth Office.  British version of what they call Dept Foreign Affairs in Australia.  Most countries not clinging on to the glory days of the Raj will be Foreign Affairs or similar words.

[Thailand]

50 minutes ago, Konini said:

Yes, Mr K has a Non-O (retirement) and I am his dependent.  Following a high flying career, I've been reduced to being one of my husband's good and chattels  ????

But a unique chattel nonetheless.

[Konini]

21 hours ago, HullyGully said:

I have two questions:-

 

1. Once you have been through this procedure, the legalised Marriage Certificate is then good for future years / extensions?

2. If my wife and I both have our own  extensions, then this Marriage Certificate requirement is not applicable

1. Yes, until they change the rules again the legalised certificate is good for life.  It really isn't that painful.  I had it researched and the copy ordered really quickly (half hour or so, with one eye on the television so it could be done faster.).  I've just looked at my emails and have put the links on the names of where you go.  To get going, you have to register with My Gov or something similar, then you're good to go with a lot of different government business.  I'm sure that it's that site where you can upload a photo (I think it has to be from your passport, or a copy of your passport so that they can verify that the photo you submitted matches) then once your photo is in the system you can do your drivers' licence and all sorts of other things without having to attend offices in person.  I can't remember if I did that, I think it was something I was going to do later.

 

Looks like I missed a step and got at least one wrong.  You get the marriage certificate from Govt Records Office (GBP11) and if possible have it sent to someone in UK, mine must have gone to mam's.  I'm sure you could get it sent here if your mail is reliable. Once the certificate has been received, you go to FCO Certification website, fill in the details and pay (GBP30), then print and fill out a form, put the payment reference number on and sign it . Scan the form and send it to whoever has got your certificate and get them to print it (you could always print out the form, sign it and post it if the person on the other end doesn't do computers). Once the person who has the certificate also has the form, ask them to pin them together and mail them to the FCO.   Next step is to send it to the Thai embassy in London, I think they charged GBP10 (CASH ONLY!!!). The form to complete is here, choose LEGALISATION and don't forget the copies of your passport (I think I sent both of ours, photo page and current extension page, not clear if they needed both or just the applicant so better to send both).  Final step once you have the legalised certificate from the Thai Embassy in your hands is to go to the govt complex at Chiang Puak (I'm pretty sure it's on at least one bus route now if you don't have transport), 5 minutes, 200 baht and back the next day to pick it up.

 

2. If they are totally separate, stand alone Non-O extensions then no.  If one of you is the dependent, yes. I don't like having 800,000 tied up when it could be earning very good money elsewhere, there's no way that I would have two times that so I choose the indignity of being a lesser person.  We aren't of pension age for a good 10 years yet (it's 67 in both UK and Aus), we have a self managed superannuation fund in Aus that we could start drawing on but until Mr K reaches the age of 60, we would have to pay tax on any withdrawals.  This means we could do the income method, but it doesn't make financial sense; I'd rather the 800,000 was tied up for 6 months than start drawing on the super fund as once we aren't able to make any further contributions to the fund once it starts making distributions and would have to open a new fund, too much messing about.

 

Sorry for a bit of misinformation, hope this complete with relevant links works.

[NancyL]

It's not "centralized" in the U.S. with each county having it's own set of rules about requesting certified copies of marriage, divorce and death certificates.  We discovered this a couple years ago when we thought we'd want to move to Malaysia under their 10 year retirement visa program and, unlike Thailand where we each can maintain our own retirement visas, they want married couples to come in as a couple.  

 

Our original 40+ year old marriage certificate didn't cut it, so we had to request a new certified copy from the Payne County (OK) courthouse.  Now Hubby and I had the good fortune to be in Oklahoma together for just a year of grad school  and we found the place even more foreign than Thailand.  But, just like being in Thailand, you could use your charms to work the locals and that's what I did to get our new certified marriage certificates.

 

In looking at the county website, I discovered they had a new courthouse, probably built in the 80s or 90s and the old one, build in the 1880s, where Hubby and I were married had become a historic landmark, so I wrote a nice email to the county clerk asking about the fee for a certified marriage certificate, explaining how we were married in the old, very cramped courthouse, including some photos of the courthouse wedding with us posing next to a trash can in the hall with our party of other, equally out-of-place grad students.  How our marriage had thrived for over 40 years and we needed a recently certified marriage certificate for a visa application.  I received a nice email in reply and the ladies sent us two certified marriage certificates to our U.S. mail forwarding address.  Bingo!

 

Hubby likes to point out that we were married in the Payne (Pain) County Courthouse, but it turned out to be a good beginning.

[Konini]

27 minutes ago, NancyL said:

....  

I received a nice email in reply and the ladies sent us two certified marriage certificates to our U.S. mail forwarding address.  Bingo!

 

Hubby likes to point out that we were married in the Payne (Pain) County Courthouse, but it turned out to be a good beginning.

Sounds so much easier than the British way.  After 35 years, I still call Mr K my first husband to keep him on his toes.  The very grim Registry Office in the even grimmer Middlesbrough at 9 o'clock on a miserable rainy Monday morning. (We only told our parents that we were getting married, and those phone calls were made on the Friday night. Both mothers were upset about not having a nice dress and fancy hat and a big day for a while but they laugh about it now.  Two days over a weekend wasn't enough time for them to organise anything, which is just what we wanted).

 

Also Nancy, do you mind me asking why you didn't go to Malaysia?  I remember seeing posts as you were inquiring and preparing, but then I dropped off the radar for a year or so, missing the conclusion.  I've always preferred Malaysia to Thailand but I hate the politics there - I was arrested at an anti-apartheid demo in London a million years ago and still have very strong feelings about that kind of thing; the system have in Malaysia is no better than South Africa had.  Whilst the politics have always held me back, the immigration situation here is really starting to grind my gears, every time I think 'that's it' they slip in a new requirement designed just to irritate me.  No worries about us ever being knocked back, we will always be able to more than meet their requirements, it just annoys me how they keep changing things.  So much easier in Malaysia for us so it is tempting, and we have a lot of very good friends there.

[Kelsall]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

It's not "centralized" in the U.S. with each county having it's own set of rules about requesting certified copies of marriage, divorce and death certificates.  We discovered this a couple years ago when we thought we'd want to move to Malaysia under their 10 year retirement visa program and, unlike Thailand where we each can maintain our own retirement visas, they want married couples to come in as a couple.  

 

Our original 40+ year old marriage certificate didn't cut it, so we had to request a new certified copy from the Payne County (OK) courthouse.  Now Hubby and I had the good fortune to be in Oklahoma together for just a year of grad school  and we found the place even more foreign than Thailand.  But, just like being in Thailand, you could use your charms to work the locals and that's what I did to get our new certified marriage certificates.

 

In looking at the county website, I discovered they had a new courthouse, probably built in the 80s or 90s and the old one, build in the 1880s, where Hubby and I were married had become a historic landmark, so I wrote a nice email to the county clerk asking about the fee for a certified marriage certificate, explaining how we were married in the old, very cramped courthouse, including some photos of the courthouse wedding with us posing next to a trash can in the hall with our party of other, equally out-of-place grad students.  How our marriage had thrived for over 40 years and we needed a recently certified marriage certificate for a visa application.  I received a nice email in reply and the ladies sent us two certified marriage certificates to our U.S. mail forwarding address.  Bingo!

 

Hubby likes to point out that we were married in the Payne (Pain) County Courthouse, but it turned out to be a good beginning.

OT, but why did you abandon your plans to retire in Malaysia?

[lolex]

How long before expiry apply extension.

 

I've seen mention of this, but couldn't find anything definitive.

 

How many days before expiry can you apply for a new extension of stay?

 

Are there any draw backs in applying early?

 

Is the O-A and marriage extension the same?

 

Any other hints and tips appreciated.

 

Thanks....