CM Immigration Q&A (2018)

[cusanus]

9 minutes ago, CMBob said:

As far as I'm concerned, the only worry we (you, hubby, myself, and many others) might have in the future is if/when Thai authorities apply a health insurance requirement to those obtaining annual extensions in-country.  So far, there's no rule saying that will happen.

Many of us are insured through a Thai spouse already, so paying expensive premium payments on top of that would be a real waste, not to mention some of us prefer to die a natural death. You never know, though. (Glad I didn't move to Ecuador, expat bank accounts have been seized in the past and it isn't looking good again.) 

[NancyL]

I guess I used too many words in my posts.  Hubby's original visa was an O-A, mine was an O, both obtained in the U.S. over a decade ago.   Since then we've applied for yearly extensions due to retirement in Chiang Mai.  So, is he going to be required to have insurance and not me?

 

I find it difficult to believe that we're somehow going to be "grandfathered" and can keep our current international health insurance policies which are superior to what the Thai gov't is pushing for the visa requirements, but doesn't meet their insane rule of 40,000 baht of out-patient cover.  Our credit cards have higher limits than that!

[sqwakvfr]

The Good:  In person 90 Day Report took 5 minutes(from entering the building to stepping out).

 

The Bad:  A Copy of the Police Order Requiring Mandatory Health Insurance for those Who initially entered on an OA Visaa was posted on the side wall next to the blank forms. But only the Thai Version was posted??

 

TIT.  

[CMBob]

3 hours ago, NancyL said:

I guess I used too many words in my posts.  Hubby's original visa was an O-A, mine was an O, both obtained in the U.S. over a decade ago.   Since then we've applied for yearly extensions due to retirement in Chiang Mai.  So, is he going to be required to have insurance and not me?

In my opinion, neither of you will have to obtain the Thai long-stay insurance UNLESS the Thai authorities alter the rules to require those of us getting annual extensions (based on retirement or whatever) within Thailand to get it.  If that happens (which I see no reason to believe as it hasn't been suggested by Thai authorities so far), a whole bunch of us will be in the same lousy boat.

[Mapguy]

NancyL,

Your miscue on your original entry was fortuitous. Nowhere is it noted in any official source I can find that NON-O visas followed by annual extensions of stay are affected.

Your husband’s timing is also fortuitous! He is going to be able to sit back for a year before renewal of extension. Plenty of time to watch how this all sorts out.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[HullyGully]

With the Extension of Stay based on a type o visa, the thinking could be:-

 

The 800k required to obtain the above, also now requires 400k to stay in a Thai bank account, funny its the same level as the insurance rquirements 400/40k

 

I also read if an expat could not get the insurance based on age/health, maybe a higher depoait could be the solution

 

Which is better than paying out 3000/4000k USD in premiums each year

 

Hopefully, this will not effect us in the future

[Mapguy]

Nailed to the wall only in Thai or not, if you read the official documents, anyone who thinks that an extension of stay as done routinely before following an original entry via NON-OA visa prior to 31 October 2019 makes them exempt after 31 October from having 40/400 health insurance from an officially authorized TGIA company is a wishful thinker.

However, there may be some breathing room provided since in the past Immigration has given some slack when a change is made in regulations or when enforcement of certain regulations has been tightened up (e.g. abnormal visa runs). There was slack when financial requirements were raised in the late 1990s as existing long-stayers paying less were “grandfathered.” This time, unfortunately, no official “grandfathering” is apparent, BUT I would not be at all surprised if some weeks were permitted to make adjustments and purchase coverage. That would be, as my guess, at the discretion of local provincial office policy.

One obvious problem is syncing annual extension and existing health insurance policy renewal dates from unauthorized companies. Here is where some shorter extensions might be permitted. But that is only hopeful.

As now presented officially, health insurance must be purchased from an authorized TGIA company. Now, some of those companies could act as an agent for another foreign company not published on the TGIA list and this would be acceptable for obtaining the needed certificate for Immigration.

Yes, it all is a big mess. Higher level policymakers really didn’t think everything through, but pity the provincial Immigration officers who really are between a rock and a hard place.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[cusanus]

9 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Nailed to the wall only in Thai or not, if you read the official documents, anyone who thinks that an extension of stay as done routinely before following an original entry via NON-OA visa prior to 31 October 2019 makes them exempt after 31 October from having 40/400 health insurance from an officially authorized TGIA company is a wishful thinker.

Seems I was the first to bring this up about six months back due to a news article when the thing was supposed to take effect prior to my friends second O-A extension in July. Now, way down the road, the panic is over a telephone call, then a notice in Thai posted at Immigration, all interpreted by guys who are definitely not Einsteins. It makes worthy discussion, but seems that we need to kick back and see what actually happens. I'm really curious about forcing insurance on those totally insured through Thai spouses already. I don't want to believe any of it, but... 

[sqwakvfr]

Einstein here.  Who is panicking?  I just posted something I observed at CNX Immigration.  Since those affected by the new police order are foreigners I thought(big mistake) an English copy would be logical(mistake #2).  TIT.

[Dante99]

Oh so much guessing and speculation and so little facts.  You guys are a bunch of doomsday gypsy fortune tellers reading the future.  

 

Time to go buy 10,000 baht of lottery tickets.

[cusanus]

13 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

Einstein here.  Who is panicking?  I just posted something I observed at CNX Immigration.  Since those affected by the new police order are foreigners I thought(big mistake) an English copy would be logical(mistake #2).  TIT.

Touchy touchy. Everyone has a cell phone these days, just take a pic with Google Translate and there ya go. If you can read Thai, you are indeed an Einstein. Was it nailed to the wall really? 8 penny, 16 or what? Oh, it wasn't you who said nailed, I know. I'll be very unhappy if my friend who arrived three years ago has to suddenly fork over for insurance, super unhappy if the lack of an A doesn't get me off the hook. Meanwhile, this subject has been going round and round for six months so I'm just going to leave it in the hold box. If we gotta pay, then we gotta pay, but if this had been the rule 15 years ago I'd have gone elsewhere and dumped the equivalent of 9 million baht there. Unfortunately, it's going to be damn hard to pull up stakes now, especially with the statisticians predicting my death in seven years. Einstein was a physicist, not a mathematician, but I'm a mathematician, unfortunately, and the physicists are stuck in a black hole. One thing I recall is a friend having two major surgeries. She wasn't allowed to leave the hospital until the bill was paid. Myself, in nearly 15 years if I'd paid my own medical bills it would amount to less than $3,000 baht, unless you count dental since my implants and crowns cost 300,000 baht, but I paid for them happily out of my own pocket, thank you. Meanwhile, the doctors won't get their mitts on me and I'll make sure I subtract the costs of any health insurance from the amount I leave behind. 

[sqwakvfr]

Touchy Einstein here.  There are people who still use flip phones, who do not read TVA or have Facebook.  I just spoke to one yesterday.  I mentioned Health Insurance and he has no idea what has been going on.  He has been here on an initial OA for 10 years.  He is in his late 70’s and his extension date is in December.  

[Lizard2010]

1 hour ago, sqwakvfr said:

Touchy Einstein here.  There are people who still use flip phones, who do not read TVA or have Facebook.  I just spoke to one yesterday.  I mentioned Health Insurance and he has no idea what has been going on.  He has been here on an initial OA for 10 years.  He is in his late 70’s and his extension date is in December.  

I agree with you

Then there are others that sit on the computer from Dawn to Dusk

I only reply occasionally

I will wait to see what happens over the next few months

As what Immigration are actually going to enforce

[placnx]

 

On ‎10‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 6:15 PM, Dcheech said:

My 45 days before extension date rolls around this weekend. My money has been seasoning for more than two months. A couple questions as I have not done it this way before. Besides my other documents, I go to my bank and get;

 

1) Bank letter, (valid for 7 days)

2) A bank statements showing all activity in the account. In my case for three months  since I opened the account. ---------------------- I get these two from the Bank, the day before then 

I also need:

 

3) “A copy of every page of my passbook which I updated on my way to CM IMM early, very early, in the morning.” ---- copy from tracyb-----

 

That last one, I am not for sure exactly how I go about getting it. I have been told I need that done on the same day I submit my application/renewal docs.  Now just to be clear -  that is where you make a deposit or withdrawal on your account, showing activity (?) And then make copies of every page of the bank book. This is done on the same day I make my application??

 

If that is so, I have to wait until the bank opens, and then make copies at a copy shop when it opens. This will put me at Immigration at about 930-10 o’clock in the morning. At the earliest.  

My questions – Are all of the above steps correct for the 800K method? And regarding step 3. Is there any way to do that so I can get to immigration earlier than say 930??  I also realize I need to bring my updated bank book with me besides the copies to the IO.

 

Any help, advice, directions, appreciated.

 

Thank You.

CNX: I did 800K extension yesterday. My helper arrived around 7:30 AM with the documents and a POA and was told that I would have to come back in person to get a queue number. So I got there about 40 min later, got queue 9. My bank letter was from 17th but update on passbook was 15th, less than a week. IO said that they would accept if latest passbook update was 4-5 days before, so I had to go out to update passbook. The passbook had only monthly entries for transactions for Jul/Aug since I failed to update during those months, so the bank's 3-month printout was essential to show activity detail.

[scottiejohn]

8 hours ago, cusanus said:

Everyone has a cell phone these days, just take a pic

It is against the law to take photographs inside government buildings with numerous signs at CM Imm telling you so.

Before you ask, no I do not have a photo to prove it, see above

[cusanus]

15 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

It is against the law to take photographs inside government buildings with numerous signs at CM Imm telling you so.

Before you ask, no I do not have a photo to prove it, see above

My last few posts were tongue in cheek, but I guess that wasn't very obvious. The farang in question was apparently able to read the sign even though in Thai, the other fellow overheard a phone conversation, so I guess we're toast. Have had real trouble finding a use for my first cell phone, but took a photo of the directions for my upcoming hospital cataract surgery (insured) and it was translated almost flawlessly by Google. 

[cusanus]

19 hours ago, placnx said:

The passbook had only monthly entries for transactions for Jul/Aug since I failed to update during those months, so the bank's 3-month printout was essential to show activity detail.

I've never had a printout from the bank or copies of the bankbook. Last time I did my extension the IO simply scanned the last several pages of my book right there. Next time I will take a copy, though. 

[Dcheech]

Re entry – multiple re entry visa.

As there was too big a mob scene last week when I did my non O extension. What is a good time to turn up at CM immigration say on Wednesday or Thursday? Just doing the Re Entry nothing else. Mid-morning or 1330 ok. Or do I need to turn up at 0620   - Again (!!)
 

Do I get a ticket up at main office front desk again? Or shunted off upstairs? Any help for a newby appreciated.

 

Thanks

[NancyL]

3 hours ago, Dcheech said:

Re entry – multiple re entry visa.

As there was too big a mob scene last week when I did my non O extension. What is a good time to turn up at CM immigration say on Wednesday or Thursday? Just doing the Re Entry nothing else. Mid-morning or 1330 ok. Or do I need to turn up at 0620   - Again (!!)
 

Do I get a ticket up at main office front desk again? Or shunted off upstairs? Any help for a newby appreciated.

 

Thanks

You may want to wait until after November 1.  This week will be busy as people try to do their retirement extensions ahead of the October 31 deadline for health insurance.  

[amexpat]

90 Days Online

 

I've used it every 90 days for years

 

but last three days can't get past the first page then the msg to see immigration office.

 

Maybe system maintenance?  Anyone had success or failure lately?

I hope this is the appropriate forum - couldn't find a better one. 

[cusanus]

5 minutes ago, amexpat said:

90 Days Online

but last three days can't get past the first page then the msg to see immigration office.

That's what you'll see if you're within the last 7 days before the due date or more than 15. Not exactly sure what the cutoff is. Also, I suspect there has to be someone on the other end, so holidays or after hours could cause a problem. If you've replaced your passport that would also do it. 

[amexpat]

Thanks but none of the above apply. As I said I've been doing this for years. 

[Mahseer]

3 hours ago, amexpat said:

90 Days Online

Anyone had success or failure lately?

Same failure and I eventually gave up and visited immigration. I had 25 numbers in front of me but managed to get out in 40 minutes. That was arriving at 1030 mid week day after a holiday.

[CMBob]

4 hours ago, NancyL said:

.......This week will be busy as people try to do their retirement extensions ahead of the October 31 deadline for health insurance.  

I take it you believe that people holding an O-A visa issued before November 1, 2019, have to obtain the insurance to obtain something (which I would guess would be an extension based on retirement or marriage given the "second" year of the O-A visa is only obtained by doing a re-entry into the country).  Presuming that's what you're saying or suggesting, why do you believe that?

 

[cusanus]

39 minutes ago, CMBob said:

I take it you believe that people holding an O-A visa issued before November 1, 2019, have to obtain the insurance to obtain something (which I would guess would be an extension based on retirement or marriage given the "second" year of the O-A visa is only obtained by doing a re-entry into the country).  Presuming that's what you're saying or suggesting, why do you believe that?

Maybe she read this: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/10/10/health-insurance-will-be-mandatory-for-retiree-visa-holders/. A friend of mine with an O-A has renewed twice and has never had to leave the country, so I don't believe you've got that one right.  Then there's this one: https://www.ttrweekly.com/site/2019/05/hefty-insurance-hovers-over-thai-visa/

[CMBob]

56 minutes ago, cusanus said:

Maybe she read this: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/10/10/health-insurance-will-be-mandatory-for-retiree-visa-holders/. A friend of mine with an O-A has renewed twice and has never had to leave the country, so I don't believe you've got that one right.  Then there's this one: https://www.ttrweekly.com/site/2019/05/hefty-insurance-hovers-over-thai-visa/

The first article you quote starts out:  "Starting Oct. 31, foreigners over 50 entering the country with an O-A visa must show that they have valid health insurance covering their period of stay, deputy public health minister Sathit Pitutecha said."  That clearly will be the rule for people who obtain an O-A visa after October 31, 2019 (or, perhaps, for those who obtained an 0-A visa prior to November 1, 2019, and first entered Thailand after October 31st, 2019).  I was referring to people already here before November 1, 2019, who are here on an O-A visa and are either going to grab a second year (by, let's say, hopping over to Burma and back) or who, at the end of their first or second year, apply for an extension based on retirement or marriage.  Do you happen to see anything promulgated by Immigration (Police) that indicates there will be any retroactive application of the new insurance rule to those people?  I'm not saying 100% that it won't happen (although, for people grabbing onto their second year by a border hop, it defies understanding how that will be enforced....is airport or border-crossing Immigration going to say you can't come in or get your second year without showing your new long-stay insurance?) but I've seen nothing that says it will happen to those already here prior to November 1, 2019.  

What we agree on is that the new rule is clear that no Thai embassy/consulate in another country will apparently issue an 0-A visa to one of their citizens after October 31st unless the citizen provides as part of their application proof of the new "long-stay" insurance.  Starting next week, perhaps we might start getting reports from people who have already been here on an O-A visa and we'll start to understand if any retroactive application is applied for those seeking extensions within Thailand.

[cusanus]

1 hour ago, CMBob said:

The first article you quote starts out:  "Starting Oct. 31, foreigners over 50 entering the country with an O-A visa must show that they have valid health insurance covering their period of stay, deputy public health minister Sathit Pitutecha said."  That clearly will be the rule for people who obtain an O-A visa after October 31, 2019 (or, perhaps, for those who obtained an 0-A visa prior to November 1, 2019, and first entered Thailand after October 31st, 2019).  I was referring to people already here before November 1, 2019, who are here on an O-A visa and are either going to grab a second year (by, let's say, hopping over to Burma and back) or who, at the end of their first or second year, apply for an extension based on retirement or marriage.  Do you happen to see anything promulgated by Immigration (Police) that indicates there will be any retroactive application of the new insurance rule to those people?  I'm not saying 100% that it won't happen (although, for people grabbing onto their second year by a border hop, it defies understanding how that will be enforced....is airport or border-crossing Immigration going to say you can't come in or get your second year without showing your new long-stay insurance?) but I've seen nothing that says it will happen to those already here prior to November 1, 2019.  

What we agree on is that the new rule is clear that no Thai embassy/consulate in another country will apparently issue an 0-A visa to one of their citizens after October 31st unless the citizen provides as part of their application proof of the new "long-stay" insurance.  Starting next week, perhaps we might start getting reports from people who have already been here on an O-A visa and we'll start to understand if any retroactive application is applied for those seeking extensions within Thailand.

If you read a little farther, the official states clearly that it will apply to both those entering AND those seeking an extension. Right? 

 

[CMBob]

1 hour ago, cusanus said:

If you read a little farther, the official states clearly that it will apply to both those entering AND those seeking an extension. Right? 

 

To those affected by the new ruling, yes.  

[cusanus]

9 hours ago, CMBob said:

To those affected by the new ruling, yes.  

Not much clarity here. Hopefully it will not be my friend or any non Os

 

[NancyL]

18 hours ago, CMBob said:

I take it you believe that people holding an O-A visa issued before November 1, 2019, have to obtain the insurance to obtain something (which I would guess would be an extension based on retirement or marriage given the "second" year of the O-A visa is only obtained by doing a re-entry into the country).  Presuming that's what you're saying or suggesting, why do you believe that?

 

Based on what a visa agent presented at the recent CM Expats Club General Meeting, yes, we were told that those who initially entered the country on an O-A visa and have been extending it each year will be asked for proof of insurance if they apply for an extension after October 31.

 

The visa agent pointed out the "non-imm O" loophole, which applies to Hubby and me.  I specifically asked about it.  A dozen years ago Hubby got an O-A visa from the Thai Chicago General Consul and I received an non-imm O as his dependent.  After entering Thailand, at some point I deposited 800,000 baht in a Thai bank solely in my name and received my own one-year retirement extensions.  So now we're both here on back-to-back one-year extensions due to retirement.

 

According to the visa agent speaking at the meeting, Hubby will need proof of insurance since he came in a dozen years ago on an O-A, but I won't since I came in on an O.

 

The way to check what you have if you no longer use the passport with your original visa is to look in the first page of visa stamps, where Immigration "transferred" your visa information.  It will clearly show if you had a "non-imm O" or an "non-imm O-A"