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CharlieH

CM Immigration Q&A (2018)

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3 hours ago, McTavish said:

I didn't believe it either but a read thru of the law could be interpreted as including all extensions. 

Section (6), of the relatively new police order, the only part that has any reference at all to health insurance, states:  "Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class O-A, must buy a Thai health insurance online..."    

 

The language is fairly clear to me but perhaps you might advise as to how one can interpret the language in the police order to say/suggest/imply that the long-stay health insurance is a requirement for anybody who will obtain any annual extension.  

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After receiving my retirement extension, I stopped over at the form basket counter to pick up a TM8 reentry form.

There was one basket,clearly marked for insurance requirements for “Non O A visa” It then stated something to the effect; ‘this visa is applied for and received in country of origin’ – Sorry if I did not get the exact working. BUT NO DOUBT about what it was, and who needed it (not the non o extenders). Chaing Mai Immigration Thursday 10/17.

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This should be interesting for Hubby and me.  Over a decade ago we both applied for O-A visas while still in the U.S., sending our documents to the Chicago Thai General Consulate in the same envelope, but made the mistake of including our marriage certificate and documents for a joint U.S. bank account that was well in excess of 1,600,000 baht. 

 

Our passports were returned just days before we planned to leave for Thailand, so there wasn't time to challenge what was granted -- Hubby received an O-A visa, but I received a one-year multi-entry O visa, with each entry stamped for a 90-day permission to stay.  Clearly, I was regarded as a "dependent".  

 

Eventually, I applied for my own retirement extension and we manage our retirement extensions independently now.

 

So, does this mean that Hubby will have to show proof of health insurance, but I won't?  Incidentally, he just did his annual extension about 10 days ago.  It expires on November 15, but he applied early and nothing was said about insurance required since his expiration is after October 31.  He has 800,000 baht in a Thai bank as his financial proof, so maybe that had some bearing.

 

My annual extension is due in mid-February and I hope they have all this sorted by then.  Incidentally, I have a monthly income in excess of 65,000 baht coming into a Thai bank, so I don't know if that will make difference in wanting proof of insurance, since I can't show a cash reserve in Thailand the way that Hubby can. 

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This should be interesting for Hubby and me.  Over a decade ago we both applied for O-A visas while still in the U.S., sending our documents to the Chicago Thai General Consulate in the same envelope, but made the mistake of including our marriage certificate and documents for a joint U.S. bank account that was well in excess of 1,600,000 baht. 
 
Our passports were returned just days before we planned to leave for Thailand, so there wasn't time to challenge what was granted -- Hubby received an O-A visa, but I received a one-year multi-entry O visa, with each entry stamped for a 90-day permission to stay.  Clearly, I was regarded as a "dependent".  
 
Eventually, I applied for my own retirement extension and we manage our retirement extensions independently now.
 
So, does this mean that Hubby will have to show proof of health insurance, but I won't?  Incidentally, he just did his annual extension about 10 days ago.  It expires on November 15, but he applied early and nothing was said about insurance required since his expiration is after October 31.  He has 800,000 baht in a Thai bank as his financial proof, so maybe that had some bearing.
 
My annual extension is due in mid-February and I hope they have all this sorted by then.  Incidentally, I have a monthly income in excess of 65,000 baht coming into a Thai bank, so I don't know if that will make difference in wanting proof of insurance, since I can't show a cash reserve in Thailand the way that Hubby can. 
So you both have Non O one year extensions?

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16 hours ago, NancyL said:

.....So, does this mean that Hubby will have to show proof of health insurance, but I won't?  Incidentally, he just did his annual extension about 10 days ago.  It expires on November 15, but he applied early and nothing was said about insurance required since his expiration is after October 31.  He has 800,000 baht in a Thai bank as his financial proof, so maybe that had some bearing.

 

My annual extension is due in mid-February and I hope they have all this sorted by then.  Incidentally, I have a monthly income in excess of 65,000 baht coming into a Thai bank, so I don't know if that will make difference in wanting proof of insurance, since I can't show a cash reserve in Thailand the way that Hubby can. 

So far, the only health insurance requirement that's surfaced is one enforced by Thai embassies/consulates in one's home country....and, under the language of the police order, it's only to be applied to people who obtain an O-A Visa in their home country after October 31, 2019.  Unless that changes, I don't think either you or hubby have any concerns.

[Some assert that there is one dicey area....where somebody, let's say, obtained an O-A Visa in their home country on October 15, 2019, but didn't first enter the country until after October 31, 2019; however, I personally don't buy that as those people weren't required to have the insurance when they got their O-A Visas and surely airport immigration will only see a proper O-A Visa in the passport and will stamp them in for their first year.]

 

As far as I'm concerned, the only worry we (you, hubby, myself, and many others) might have in the future is if/when Thai authorities apply a health insurance requirement to those obtaining annual extensions in-country.  So far, there's no rule saying that will happen.

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9 minutes ago, CMBob said:

As far as I'm concerned, the only worry we (you, hubby, myself, and many others) might have in the future is if/when Thai authorities apply a health insurance requirement to those obtaining annual extensions in-country.  So far, there's no rule saying that will happen.

Many of us are insured through a Thai spouse already, so paying expensive premium payments on top of that would be a real waste, not to mention some of us prefer to die a natural death. You never know, though. (Glad I didn't move to Ecuador, expat bank accounts have been seized in the past and it isn't looking good again.) 

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I guess I used too many words in my posts.  Hubby's original visa was an O-A, mine was an O, both obtained in the U.S. over a decade ago.   Since then we've applied for yearly extensions due to retirement in Chiang Mai.  So, is he going to be required to have insurance and not me?

 

I find it difficult to believe that we're somehow going to be "grandfathered" and can keep our current international health insurance policies which are superior to what the Thai gov't is pushing for the visa requirements, but doesn't meet their insane rule of 40,000 baht of out-patient cover.  Our credit cards have higher limits than that!

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The Good:  In person 90 Day Report took 5 minutes(from entering the building to stepping out).

 

The Bad:  A Copy of the Police Order Requiring Mandatory Health Insurance for those Who initially entered on an OA Visaa was posted on the side wall next to the blank forms. But only the Thai Version was posted??

 

TIT.  

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3 hours ago, NancyL said:

I guess I used too many words in my posts.  Hubby's original visa was an O-A, mine was an O, both obtained in the U.S. over a decade ago.   Since then we've applied for yearly extensions due to retirement in Chiang Mai.  So, is he going to be required to have insurance and not me?

In my opinion, neither of you will have to obtain the Thai long-stay insurance UNLESS the Thai authorities alter the rules to require those of us getting annual extensions (based on retirement or whatever) within Thailand to get it.  If that happens (which I see no reason to believe as it hasn't been suggested by Thai authorities so far), a whole bunch of us will be in the same lousy boat.

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NancyL,

Your miscue on your original entry was fortuitous. Nowhere is it noted in any official source I can find that NON-O visas followed by annual extensions of stay are affected.

Your husband’s timing is also fortuitous! He is going to be able to sit back for a year before renewal of extension. Plenty of time to watch how this all sorts out.


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With the Extension of Stay based on a type o visa, the thinking could be:-

 

The 800k required to obtain the above, also now requires 400k to stay in a Thai bank account, funny its the same level as the insurance rquirements 400/40k

 

I also read if an expat could not get the insurance based on age/health, maybe a higher depoait could be the solution

 

Which is better than paying out 3000/4000k USD in premiums each year

 

Hopefully, this will not effect us in the future

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Nailed to the wall only in Thai or not, if you read the official documents, anyone who thinks that an extension of stay as done routinely before following an original entry via NON-OA visa prior to 31 October 2019 makes them exempt after 31 October from having 40/400 health insurance from an officially authorized TGIA company is a wishful thinker.

However, there may be some breathing room provided since in the past Immigration has given some slack when a change is made in regulations or when enforcement of certain regulations has been tightened up (e.g. abnormal visa runs). There was slack when financial requirements were raised in the late 1990s as existing long-stayers paying less were “grandfathered.” This time, unfortunately, no official “grandfathering” is apparent, BUT I would not be at all surprised if some weeks were permitted to make adjustments and purchase coverage. That would be, as my guess, at the discretion of local provincial office policy.

One obvious problem is syncing annual extension and existing health insurance policy renewal dates from unauthorized companies. Here is where some shorter extensions might be permitted. But that is only hopeful.

As now presented officially, health insurance must be purchased from an authorized TGIA company. Now, some of those companies could act as an agent for another foreign company not published on the TGIA list and this would be acceptable for obtaining the needed certificate for Immigration.

Yes, it all is a big mess. Higher level policymakers really didn’t think everything through, but pity the provincial Immigration officers who really are between a rock and a hard place.


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9 minutes ago, Mapguy said:

Nailed to the wall only in Thai or not, if you read the official documents, anyone who thinks that an extension of stay as done routinely before following an original entry via NON-OA visa prior to 31 October 2019 makes them exempt after 31 October from having 40/400 health insurance from an officially authorized TGIA company is a wishful thinker.

Seems I was the first to bring this up about six months back due to a news article when the thing was supposed to take effect prior to my friends second O-A extension in July. Now, way down the road, the panic is over a telephone call, then a notice in Thai posted at Immigration, all interpreted by guys who are definitely not Einsteins. It makes worthy discussion, but seems that we need to kick back and see what actually happens. I'm really curious about forcing insurance on those totally insured through Thai spouses already. I don't want to believe any of it, but... 

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Einstein here.  Who is panicking?  I just posted something I observed at CNX Immigration.  Since those affected by the new police order are foreigners I thought(big mistake) an English copy would be logical(mistake #2).  TIT.

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