Many English teachers do not have work permits!

[My Thai Life]

2 hours ago, kwilco said:

Yes.  TV has a problem with Android predictive text ... but I'm sure you can work it out.

Then  we come to the crux of the matter, what are you trying to say with your post? You haven't expressed an opinion.

 

I've already posted some sites for checking degrees...The point is that immigration and employers don't bother.

> No, I still can't work out what you were trying to say, that's why I replied to you.

 

> Yes I have expressed an opinion - in post 25 I think, the rest has been just trying to clarify what you're trying to say.

 

> Point 3 is a generalisation. There are many schools, immigration offices and MoE offices in Thailand. We always check qualifications, and we work closely with our immigration and MoE offices. Any school that employs a foreigner illegally is risking closure, and the foreigner will be deported. As I mentioned in my first post, I know of a major school chain - ie a Thai-licensed school with many franchise offices around Thailand - a huge commercial success - it was closed down last year for employing foreigners without work permits. And the owners are now involved in criminal proceedings in court.

 

By the way, any "teacher" obtaining a work permit with a fake degree is committing fraud, as well as working illegally.

[kwilco]

On 9/23/2018 at 8:35 AM, My Thai Life said:

> No, I still can't work out what you were trying to say, that's why I replied to you.

 

> Yes I have expressed an opinion - in post 25 I think, the rest has been just trying to clarify what you're trying to say.

 

> Point 3 is a generalisation. There are many schools, immigration offices and MoE offices in Thailand. We always check qualifications, and we work closely with our immigration and MoE offices. Any school that employs a foreigner illegally is risking closure, and the foreigner will be deported. As I mentioned in my first post, I know of a major school chain - ie a Thai-licensed school with many franchise offices around Thailand - a huge commercial success - it was closed down last year for employing foreigners without work permits. And the owners are now involved in criminal proceedings in court.

 

By the way, any "teacher" obtaining a work permit with a fake degree is committing fraud, as well as working illegally.

ie a Thai-licensed school with many franchise offices around Thailand - a huge commercial success - it was closed down last year for employing foreigners without work permits. And the owners are now involved in criminal proceedings in court.

 

 

I think it would be safe to name that org and how you understand their finances?

[Damrongsak]

On 9/21/2018 at 5:33 AM, colinneil said:

 ... Everything you do is whiter than white perfect?

I found detergents in Thailand to be a bit lacking. Then I discovered camo-colored underwear.  Problem solved.

 

It is a shame that people get caught up in major "bending of the rules", so to speak.  Best to know what the rules are before throwing all to chance. 

[DILLIGAD]

ie a Thai-licensed school with many franchise offices around Thailand - a huge commercial success - it was closed down last year for employing foreigners without work permits. And the owners are now involved in criminal proceedings in court.
 
 
I think it would be safe to name that org and how you understand their finances?

I think it’s NOT safe to name that org due to strong slander laws in this country if the claim is true or false. It would also contravene forum rules probably too.


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[kwilco]

50 minutes ago, DILLIGAD said:

I think it’s NOT safe to name that org due to strong slander laws in this country if the claim is true or false. It would also contravene forum rules probably too.


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if they're closed down, who's going to object?

[Loaded]

5 hours ago, kwilco said:

ie a Thai-licensed school with many franchise offices around Thailand - a huge commercial success - it was closed down last year for employing foreigners without work permits. And the owners are now involved in criminal proceedings in court.

 

 

I think it would be safe to name that org and how you understand their finances?

I hadn't heard this. Could you pm me the name?

[DILLIGAD]

if they're closed down, who's going to object?

Why risk it?
Up to you.


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[anon2736434]

Many foreigners in thailand in different fields are working without permits, how is that hurting you ???? Oh and by the way with the new work permit rules its only a fine now not jail . This topic is one of the main reasons I keep to myself here and mostly stay away from other foreigners.

[kwilco]

On 9/26/2018 at 12:13 AM, Notagain said:

Many foreigners in thailand in different fields are working without permits, how is that hurting you ???? Oh and by the way with the new work permit rules its only a fine now not jail . This topic is one of the main reasons I keep to myself here and mostly stay away from other foreigners.

"Many foreigners in Thailand in different fields are working without permits, how is that hurting you ????"

 

Because it affects are workers rights salaries and negotiating position.

 

A plethora of people who are prepared to get low salaries and put other prices up to hide their status is Neve a good thing.

Why would a company pay full rate if they can exploit someone without the right paperwork on the cheap?

 

Just keeping away from foreigners won't keep you safe - eventually some disgruntled person wit ill see and advantage in taking advantage of any illegal worker.

[anon2736434]

Workers rights in thailand hahahahaha, salaries ? haven't moved in 20 years. Reality check, maybe see what the economy can support in wages before asking for what korea-japan-taiwan etc. pay for teachers. A thai HR person isnt going to negotiate with a falang take it or leave it they will say. Learning more about thai culture before talking about subjects relating to the thai economy will help a person understand no matter what you do or say its still their game, stadium and rules and blaming other foreigners for low wages is just ignorant. Oh maybe a foreign teachers union would help hahahaha, the Filipinos and other nationalities will still undercut you and guess what ?  in the end the results of students learning english will still be the same

[My Thai Life]

3 hours ago, kwilco said:

Why would a company pay full rate if they can exploit someone without the right paperwork on the cheap?

For the simple reason that the company would be breaking the law and closed down.

 

[SuperTed]

OMG! I’ve just been informed that a number of girls working in the local bar who claim to be 20 are in fact only 19!

We must put a stop to this! Let’s rectify the transgressions of the bar girls tonight; tomorrow we’ll clean out the dodgy English schools and their illegal workers.

Forward!


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[kwilco]

13 hours ago, My Thai Life said:

For the simple reason that the company would be breaking the law and closed down.

 

Duh?

[onlycw]

OTOH, I know teachers who got their WPs quickly without any involvement of the TCT / Krusapha. I wish I could avoid the hassle like them, TBH. But WPs can be obtained, so cui bono? Is it about saving money?

[Scott]

There are a lot of teachers who do not have Work Permits because they are not eligible for one.   Many of them are in the country legally, on retirement visas or marriage visas.  

 

Schools can get a work permit for employees for other positions, but immigration is aware that it is little more than a work around for unqualified people.   With at least some schools, they limit the number of work permits for other positions, such as assistants.

[Rhys]

.... well so-called students receive so-called teachers...

[samsensam]

On 9/21/2018 at 10:29 AM, tilbrook007 said:

My point is to expose this!

 

eh? what do people on this forum care?

 

go to the relevant authorities, with considerably more evidence than you have provided.

[Rc2702]

Just now, Scott said:

There are a lot of teachers who do not have Work Permits because they are not eligible for one.   Many of them are in the country legally, on retirement visas or marriage visas.  

 

Schools can get a work permit for employees for other positions, but immigration is aware that it is little more than a work around for unqualified people.   With at least some schools, they limit the number of work permits for other positions, such as assistants.

That's interesting so are you saying this is a grey area which is overlooked or down to discretion.

 

Retired chap - working. Is that not blatantly illegal?

 

Aren't there people getting locked up/ deported for not having the correct credentials to teach?

 

 

[Scott]

It does/has happened, but it is relatively rare.   I think one of the more high profile arrests was due to one language school owner turning in the employees of another school.  

 

The issue with fake degrees is a little more murky because many of the degrees are rejected without further verification, which of course can't be produced and is the matter is thus dropped.   

[YogaVeg]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

There are a lot of teachers who do not have Work Permits because they are not eligible for one.   Many of them are in the country legally, on retirement visas or marriage visas.  

I for one can't fathom why anyone would risk it all to teach here illegally. Wouldn't getting caught jeopardize their visas? Why risk it for teacher's wages?

[Scott]

1 hour ago, YogaVeg said:

I for one can't fathom why anyone would risk it all to teach here illegally. Wouldn't getting caught jeopardize their visas? Why risk it for teacher's wages?

I suppose there are a lot of reasons.  I've known retired people who simply didn't care if they got caught.   They would move on to somewhere else.    For some of the people who are married, they have a lot more at stake.   They need to work to support their Thai family and if caught, they would truly be SOL.

 

[My Thai Life]

8 hours ago, Scott said:

There are a lot of teachers who do not have Work Permits because they are not eligible for one.   Many of them are in the country legally, on retirement visas or marriage visas.  

 

If they are working without work permits they are not in the country legally because they are in breach of the terms of their extension of stay.

[Scott]

3 minutes ago, My Thai Life said:

If they are working without work permits they are not in the country legally because they are in breach of the terms of their extension of stay.

I am not going to get into a legal hairsplitting contest.   They are legal until they are caught and most are not caught.  

[My Thai Life]

5 hours ago, YogaVeg said:

I for one can't fathom why anyone would risk it all to teach here illegally. Wouldn't getting caught jeopardize their visas? Why risk it for teacher's wages?

Absolutely right. I'm aware of numerous situations where people working illegally have been deported. These cases are not important enough to make the press, and naturally these people are not going to boast about it on forums.

 

I think some people are just not aware of the rules, unbelievably enough, and we can see even from this "teachers" subforum there are many people trying to bend the rules and encouraging others to do so.

 

[My Thai Life]

12 minutes ago, Scott said:

I am not going to get into a legal hairsplitting contest.   They are legal until they are caught and most are not caught.  

Neither am I. A crime is a crime even if you don't get caught, that is is a simple legal fact. They are breaching the terms of their extension of stay, they are here under false pretenses, illegally.

 

This can easily be confirmed by going to immigration and seeking clarification on this point.

[Assurancetourix]

On 9/23/2018 at 8:35 AM, My Thai Life said:

 Any school that employs a foreigner illegally is risking closure, and the foreigner will be deported.

 

5555 !! I would like to see that ;

I know so many schools over Thailand who employ foreign english teachers without a WP  and pay them a " poignee de cacaouetes " ..

 

It's because schools don't want to write forms about WP and also don't want to pay the minimum wage for foreigners that there are so many non WP foreign teachers.

 

[Assurancetourix]

14 hours ago, Rc2702 said:

 

 

Retired chap - working. Is that not blatantly illegal?

 

 

 

 

 

For many works it's not illegal and a WP is not required .

[My Thai Life]

57 minutes ago, Assurancetourix said:

5555 !! I would like to see that ;

I know so many schools over Thailand who employ foreign english teachers without a WP  and pay them a " poignee de cacaouetes " ..

 

It's because schools don't want to write forms about WP and also don't want to pay the minimum wage for foreigners that there are so many non WP foreign teachers.

The main reasons that foreigners work without work permits is that they don't have sufficient qualifications to get a work permit and they are broke and desperately need the money; and they are not too fussy about getting a criminal record and being deported. Some are just too inexperienced or ignorant to know they need a work permit.

 

By the way, there is no official pay scale for foreigners in government schools, and consequently no minimum wage for foreigners.

[samsensam]

1 minute ago, My Thai Life said:

The main reasons that foreigners work without work permits is that they don't have sufficient qualifications to get a work permit and they are broke and desperately need the money; and they are not too fussy about getting a criminal record and being deported. Some are just too inexperienced or ignorant to know they need a work permit.

 

By the way, there is no official pay scale for foreigners in government schools, and consequently no minimum wage for foreigners.

 

no, the main reasons why teachers work without work permits is because it is so easy to do; there is no effective enforcement of employment/immigration legislation and because many educational establishments dont care about  the quality of teaching they provide.

[My Thai Life]

5 minutes ago, samsensam said:

no, the main reasons why teachers work without work permits is because it is so easy to do; there is no effective enforcement of employment/immigration legislation and because many educational establishments dont care about  the quality of teaching they provide.

There is enforcement of employment and immigration legislation. As I've mentioned previously, I know of a major school and several would-be schools closed down in the last year, and several farangs deported. These things are not reported in the Thai national press, as they are not important enough, and you definitely won't hear about them on Thai Visa.

 

Working illegally is a crime. People who commit crime are called criminals, not teachers.