Denied entry to Thailand!

[Vixiena]

Guys I really need some advice here as I feel like I am being treated very unfairly. Basically I left Thailand and went to Hanoi, Vietnam for 5 days. While I was there I applied for a new Thai tourist visa. I supplied the embassy with bank statements ect. I was given my visa the next day, and headed back to bangkok. Immigration stopped me and said what are you doing here. I said traveling. The lady replied with I don't think so, you have been in and out of the country for a year now. They put me in a detentions cell over night which I had to pay for and made me pay for a flight back to Hanoi. Their reason for doing this was that I didn't have 20000 baht with me in cash? I arrived back to Hanoi and was told that I can either pay 140 dollars to stay for 15 days or pay for a flight back to the UK. The immigration in Thailand said I can come back in two weeks time. All of my belongings are there. I've wasted so much money due to them messing me around saying that I never had enough money, when most of it was in my bank account which I had told them. Anyone have some advice please?I know they are obviously just making my life difficult for me because I have had a few visas but there is no law stating how many visas you are allowed. I broke no rules, was granted a visa after showing the Thai Embassy my earnings. Yet I get told I can't come in because I don't have enough money? After being told to get out of their country and go back to my own. Tourists are Thailand's main income, and now to be honest it's put me off wanting to go back.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Vixiena

[Crossy]

What is your actual history of staying in Thailand (just list your in and out dates and visa type).

 

Did you have the required 20k in cash? That's the usual one they use if they suspect you've been working without the correct paperwork.

 

Did your passport get stamped "denied" or something similar?

 

Which airport did you arrive at (yes, it seems to matter)?

 

This scenario seems to be getting more common although most seem to be allowed in after a grilling and a warning. You may have been caught up in the Big Joke clampdown, all the IOs want to be seen to be squeeky clean by the new immigration chief.

 

EDIT And from your previous posts it seems you are indeed working without the required paperwork.

 

 

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, Vixiena said:

I broke no rules

You mentioned elsewhere they refused you entry on not having the 20000 in cash on you - unfortunately this is one of the legitimate ways of denying entry here.

[theoldgit]

Did you have the required 20k in cash? That's the usual one they use if they suspect you've been working without the correct paperwork.

He said that he didn’t.
 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Vixiena said:

Their reason for doing this was that I didn't have 20000 baht with me in cash?

That is a requirement to enter the country. It can be the equivalent of 20k baht in any echangeable currency.

1 hour ago, Vixiena said:

The immigration in Thailand said I can come back in two weeks time.

There is no rule that states you have to wait 2 weeks. It seems the immigration officer made a new rule.

 

What numbers are shown in parenthesis on your denial of entry stamp. I would guess they are 2 and 9. Which are for a lack of financial proof for your stay here.

 

[jimmjam]

what country are you from btw? this might be a reason they denied you and suspect you are working in Thailand. how many tourist visa have you had? (in reality there is no limit to the amount of tourist visa's you can have) its down to the IO at the end of the day. 

[poanoi]

" Tourists are Thailand's main income, "

no, its around 25% iirc, still, its practically free money with no competition that is the envy of any nation

[kinyara]

39 minutes ago, poanoi said:

" Tourists are Thailand's main income, "

no, its around 25% iirc, still, its practically free money with no competition that is the envy of any nation

 Around the 10% mark

[Vixiena]

I was doing my own thing online. I was not working in an establishment or taking anyone elses job. There are many people traveling the world doing this. Yeah maybe your not officially allowed to do this but there are people that stay in Thailand for years working online. I had around 7000 baht with me in cash and the rest was in my bank account. I can't see why anyone would want to carry 20000 baht with them in their pocket. It's not exactly small money. The Embassy clearly saw I had enough in my account when they gave me my visa which I'm also guessing immigration have access to. I have also read that people that did not have the money in cash were aloud to draw it out of an ATM. For the guy that asked I am from the UK, which they seemed rather surprised about.. doesn't take long to save up money from the UK to be able to travel Asia for a year. Below is the only paperwork they gave me. I will check the passport stamp in a bit. I have also had like 3 tourist visas and maybe 2 exemptions.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Vixiena

[Yeahbutwhytho]

13 minutes ago, Vixiena said:

I was doing my own thing online. I was not working in an establishment or taking anyone elses job. There are many people traveling the world doing this. Yeah maybe your not officially allowed to do this but there are people that stay in Thailand for years working online. I had around 7000 baht with me in cash and the rest was in my bank account. I can't see why anyone would want to carry 20000 baht with them in their pocket. It's not exactly small money. The Embassy clearly saw I had enough in my account when they gave me my visa which I'm also guessing immigration have access to. I have also read that people that did not have the money in cash were aloud to draw it out of an ATM. For the guy that asked I am from the UK, which they seemed rather surprised about.. doesn't take long to save up money from the UK to be able to travel Asia for a year. Below is the only paperwork they gave me. I will check the passport stamp in a bit. I have also had like 3 tourist visas and maybe 2 exemptions.

 

And also check if there is a void stamp or any marks on the visa sticker itself. Unfortunately the 20000 baht rule out a big one to remember when coming to Thailand on holiday

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, Vixiena said:

I was doing my own thing online. I was not working in an establishment or taking anyone elses job. There are many people traveling the world doing this. Yeah maybe your not officially allowed to do this but there are people that stay in Thailand for years working online. I had around 7000 baht with me in cash and the rest was in my bank account. I can't see why anyone would want to carry 20000 baht with them in their pocket. It's not exactly small money. The Embassy clearly saw I had enough in my account when they gave me my visa which I'm also guessing immigration have access to. I have also read that people that did not have the money in cash were aloud to draw it out of an ATM. For the guy that asked I am from the UK, which they seemed rather surprised about.. doesn't take long to save up money from the UK to be able to travel Asia for a year. Below is the only paperwork they gave me. I will check the passport stamp in a bit. I have also had like 3 tourist visas and maybe 2 exemptions.

The rules state you must be able to show the equivalent of 20k baht on entry to the country and immigration want to see it cash.

Immigration has no link to see what you showed when you applied for the visa.

There is no ATM you can access in the arrival area of the airport. Immigration would have to escort you to one.

What you posted was a receipt for your stay in detention.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, Yeahbutwhytho said:

And also check if there is a void stamp or any marks on the visa sticker itself. Unfortunately the 20000 baht rule out a big one to remember when coming to Thailand on holiday

Immigration cannot mark a visa void or canceled.

[Proboscis]

58 minutes ago, overherebc said:

That's true but coming to Thailand and doing any kind of work paid or unpaid while on a VE or tourist visa is illegal.

 

If you include doing some work online, that makes all of us guilty. How many tourists answer a work mail while in Thailand? Or put in a few hours while on vacation to help out colleagues bad home? That too is a violation. In other countries it is not. In my home country, you can do whatever you want workwise online - no one cares as long as you are not doing work for a company in my homecountry illegally.

[TeaMonkey]

Thailand doesn't provide a suitable Visa for your requirements. In the past it was fairly easy to live here on tourist Visa's but this seems to have become more problematic over the years and with the appointment of the new showman head of immigration it is likely to get harder. 

[poanoi]

you can buy ED visa, or if you are above 50, a retirement extension

[ubonjoe]

Somef off topic inflammatory posts meant to derail the topic and the resultant replies have been removed.  Time to end it.

[atyclb]

out of curiosity would an io allow the person in question to simply withdraw the 20,000 baht at the airport atm?  perhaps security to escort the person? then they can also witness the bank balance per atm machine. 

[Vixiena]

11 minutes ago, atyclb said:

out of curiosity would an io allow the person in question to simply withdraw the 20,000 baht at the airport atm?  perhaps security to escort the person? then they can also witness the bank balance per atm machine. 

Well I told them then money was in my bank account and they didn't seem to care. I have heard that immigration have let others to do though.

[sometimewoodworker]

18 minutes ago, atyclb said:

out of curiosity would an io allow the person in question to simply withdraw the 20,000 baht at the airport atm?  perhaps security to escort the person? then they can also witness the bank balance per atm machine. 

It's virtually impossible that they would allow that, as by the time they are asking they are probably looking at a reason to deny entry, also the rules state that you must be carrying 20,000 or equivalent not have access to it.

Edited October 21, 2018 by sometimewoodworker

[Vixiena]

Sorry the picture is not very clear. This is the stamp they gave me, if anyone can tell me what it means ???? just want to know if I can actually go back there really..

[atyclb]

7 minutes ago, Vixiena said:

19 minutes ago, atyclb said:

out of curiosity would an io allow the person in question to simply withdraw the 20,000 baht at the airport atm?  perhaps security to escort the person? then they can also witness the bank balance per atm machine. 

Well I told them then money was in my bank account and they didn't seem to care. I have heard that immigration have let others to do though.

 

did u specifically ask that they let you use an atm to show the cash and other funds?   if not do not expect them to connect dots

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, Vixiena said:

Their reason for doing this was that I didn't have 20000 baht with me in cash?

...

I've wasted so much money due to them messing me around saying that I never had enough money, when most of it was in my bank account which I had told them.

2 hours ago, Vixiena said:

I can't see why anyone would want to carry 20000 baht with them in their pocket

There is only one reason to carry it anywhere on Earth that ATM machines exist - to deal with Thai immigration.  I use Travelers Checks, so I am covered in case of loss or theft.  This is a rule any longer-stayer on Visas needs to be aware of, and prepared for, especially if entering by air (still risky, even with the cash) or from Malaysia.

When one has a TR Visa, they have less leverage to deny than when asking them to give you a Visa-Exempt entry, but the 20K Baht worth of cash is a published-condition of entering with a Visa, to spite it being a rule which is not sane given worldwide electronic banking systems.  It is reported enforced at airports and the Malaysian land-border entry points - though could be asked at any entry-point. 

 

2 hours ago, Vixiena said:

I have also read that people that did not have the money in cash were aloud to draw it out of an ATM.

I have never heard of IOs allowing one to go to an ATM, and there are no ATM machines between the plane and immigration.  They won't let you go to the ATM, because you could get the cash, and remove the reason they are planning to use for denial-of-entry.

 

5 hours ago, Vixiena said:

I know they are obviously just making my life difficult for me because I have had a few visas but there is no law stating how many visas you are allowed. I broke no rules, was granted a visa after showing the Thai Embassy my earnings. Yet I get told I can't come in because I don't have enough money? After being told to get out of their country and go back to my own.

Yes, they like to say that "go home" bit - as if we wouldn't simply take up residence in Vietnam, Cambodia, the PI or one of the dozens of other countries which welcome our spending, and which don't make us go on these silly trips (or are at least nice about our re-entry when we do).

 

What you need to understand, is TI don't really care if you have the money or not - that's not the point of the exercise.  When this comes up, they are looking for a way to deny-entry because they have decided (possibly being paid-off to decide) you have "been here too long" - an unspecified / unpublished / invented-rule, which is only reported as being applied at airports and Poipet. 

 

Even those with TR Visas and the Cash are still sometimes denied at those locations, if an IO thinks they have "spent too much time" in Thailand.  They may have used this rule simply because it was the first thing they tried, and you weren't prepared for it. 

 

I stopped using the airports to enter Thailand when these horror-stories first started being reported.  I still don't use them, even with my Non-O ME Visa, for the same reason I would not visit some known-dangerous nations - because there is no set of defined-rules one can count on being in-force, and a reported-history of arbitrary behavior.   It was the "show the money" rule which got you this time - which is published - but who knows the next time. 

 

If one has a longer-stay history, avoiding the Airports and the Poipet/Aranya land-border can eliminate 99% of the entry-risk.  You can fly domestic no-problem - no immigration to deal with - so once in the country by-land, head to the nearest airport, and travel onward to your final destination.

 

5 hours ago, Vixiena said:

I arrived back to Hanoi and was told that I can either pay 140 dollars to stay for 15 days or pay for a flight back to the UK.

Wasted money, but worth it to avoid 2 long-flights (there and back) and overpriced last-minute plane tickets.  Glad to hear Vietnam allow this option to those shafted attempting entry to Thailand.

 

5 hours ago, Vixiena said:

The immigration in Thailand said I can come back in two weeks time.

That "two weeks" bit is interesting - maybe just something she made-up, but possibly a hint to other longer-stayers on how long "out of the country" can help when coming back with a Tourist Visa.

Is your TR Visa un-marked by immigration?  If so, you can still use it to enter Thailand.

 

Quote

Tourists are Thailand's main income,

It's not their main-income - but it is a large one.  Unfortunately, high-volume/low-spending short-term tourists from China are being prioritized.  These visitors have so little to spend, that Thailand is considering offering them a "free VOA" promotion, since a mere 2000 Baht savings can make the difference between them being able to come here on vacation or not. 

These visitors often go on "package tours" which benefit a few large corporations - and those orgs buy policy which profits them, while transferring the infrastructure-costs of handling the large-volume to the Thai people (similar happens in my country with corporate-welfare schemes). 

 

The denial-policy you encountered ignores all the small businesses that Western tourists keep in business - many closed, thanks to this ridiculous policy of "unpublished" rules at airports - which have a much higher Thai-employee/visitor ratio and higher payscales for those Thai-employees.

 

Quote

and now to be honest it's put me off wanting to go back.

One could hardly blame you.  There are many other countries in the region where it is easier to stay long-term, without being a special age, etc. 

Vietnam is one (options depend on your nationality). 

Cambodia is probably the easiest of all (approx $360 USD/yr - never have to leave the country - may need to buy a "work permit" before the 2nd-yr application). 

The PI is also easy - and with some money in-the-bank, a long-term visa is easy.  If staying as a tourist, it involves somewhat frequent visits to immigration, buying an ID, and an annual (or so) trip out and back.  But their immigration is very friendly, in contrast to Thailand - generally are happy to see you, polite, helpful, etc.

 

I stay in Thailand now, because of my Thai wife - but also because I love the culture/people.  If I had to do the TR-Visa + "avoid dangerous entry points" dance again, I would do it - but I can't blame others who find it unworkable.

 

5 minutes ago, Vixiena said:

Sorry the picture is not very clear. This is the stamp they gave me, if anyone can tell me what it means ???? just want to know if I can actually go back there really..

You are not banned - you can come back.  You could enter by-land tomorrow at any land-border crossing except Poipet, if your TR Visa was not cancelled (probably was not - does it say "USED" on it?).

Edited October 21, 2018 by JackThompson

[Vixiena]

My tourist visa was not stamped but it's a single entry tourist visa. I am currently in Hanoi where I was sent back to. I booked a flight from here to Chiang mai this time, instead of BKK, where I was stopped. Do you think I should cancel the flight and maybe go by train?

Edited October 21, 2018 by Vixiena

[Vacuum]

2 hours ago, Vixiena said:

I can't see why anyone would want to carry 20000 baht with them in their pocket.

Perhaps not on a daily basis, but the rules are that you have to show 20K in cash if the IO ask you. Can't see the problem really, take out the money before entering Thailand, then deposit them back to your account when you've passed the Immigration. The risk of getting robbed on an airplane is slim.

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, Vixiena said:

Sorry the picture is not very clear. This is the stamp they gave me, if anyone can tell me what it means ???? just want to know if I can actually go back there really..

You were denied entry under 2 of section 12 of the immigration act.

"2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom."

 

4 minutes ago, Vixiena said:

My tourist visa was not stamped but it's a single entry tourist visa. I am currently in Hanoi where I was sent back to. I booked a flight from here to Chiang Rai this time, instead of BKK, where I was stopped. Do you think I should cancel the flight and maybe go by train?

I think you will have less problems entering at Chiang Rai than at Bangkok. Just be sure you have the equivalent of 20k baht in cash and proof you have other funds to live on after enter the country such as a print out of you bank statement.

Where would you be entering at by train. (Malaysia I assume)?

 

[atyclb]

30 minutes ago, Vixiena said:

Sorry the picture is not very clear. This is the stamp they gave me, if anyone can tell me what it means ???? just want to know if I can actually go back there really..

poor writing, only 4 or so letters clear. Putting it together looks like 

ไม่มีปิดจองซื้อ.   Don't have, close booking.

[Yeahbutwhytho]

15 minutes ago, Vixiena said:

My tourist visa was not stamped but it's a single entry tourist visa. I am currently in Hanoi where I was sent back to. I booked a flight from here to Chiang mai this time, instead of BKK, where I was stopped. Do you think I should cancel the flight and maybe go by train?

Once the IO didn't know I had a tourist visa in Poipet so she hmm'd and ahhh'd for 15 minutes if she should let me in until I said I have a tourist visa

 

Could it be that they thought you were trying to get an exception?

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, atyclb said:

poor writing, only 4 or so letters clear. Putting it together looks like 

ไม่มีปิดจองซื้อ.   Don't have, close booking.

My daughter says it is not having any money. She found it hard to read and was not impressed with the officers handwriting.

That is the same as the clause in the immigration act states that the #2 on the next line indicates.

[stevenl]

53 minutes ago, atyclb said:

 

did u specifically ask that they let you use an atm to show the cash and other funds?   if not do not expect them to connect dots

Doesn't matter, it is just an excuse. The real reason is they think he is living/working here.

[Vixiena]

35 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You were denied entry under 2 of section 12 of the immigration act.

"2. Having no appropriate means of living following entrance into the Kingdom."

 

I think you will have less problems entering at Chiang Rai than at Bangkok. Just be sure you have the equivalent of 20k baht in cash and proof you have other funds to live on after enter the country such as a print out of you bank statement.

Where would you be entering at by train. (Malaysia I assume)?

 

I'm trying to figure out how I can get baht while I'm in hanoi. I have money in my bank account, don't really want to draw out dong equivalent to 20k BAHT as I most likely can't exchange it in Thailand. I'm not too sure about the train yet, a friend suggested it.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Vixiena