Income Affidavit Denied in Phuket

[ElephantEgo]

I am a USA citizen who went to immigration today, to extend my marriage visa with my wife in Phuket.

 

Yesterday I saw an officer who insinuated that he will accept the income affidavit from the USA embassy, and only asked for the first and last pages of my bank book in addition to the income affidavit.

The next day (today) I returned with everything ready, but I happened to be called to a different officer in the back, closer to the boss.

 

She looked at the income affidavit for a minute and then told me to make a copy of every page of my bank book. When I returned she told me she cannot accept the income affidavit because it proves nothing. Even if I showed that 480,000 THB+ came into my bank from overseas (12 months x 40,000) in the past 12 months, it seems this would NOT be accepted. The only proof she could accept, she said, would be 400,000 THB in the bank for 2-3 months.

As a solution she told me that from now, I need to keep the 400,000 THB my Thai bank. Then come back on the day that my marriage visa expires, in order to ask immigration for a 2 month extension (using my year application paperwork). I can then finally apply for the year visa again in 3 months, with the appropriate documents from my bank.

 

Usually it takes me all of 1.5 days to do my annual visa. This year it looks like it will be taking about 4 days of running around and waiting in lines and doing paperwork! What a terribly concerning, inconsistent, inconvenient and confusing situation for everyone!
 

[lopburi3]

You say it seems income would not be accepted but did your account actually show that monthly income deposit?

[OJAS]

9 minutes ago, JakeR said:

The only proof she could accept, she said, would be 400,000 THB in the bank for 2-3 months.

Probably a sign of the times, I fear. Phuket will, I suspect, not turn out to be the only office who, in practice, have decided to scrap the monthly income method of proving finances for marriage and retirement extensions with immediate effect.

[fforest1]

I think the problem is you forgot to tip...lol

[ElephantEgo]

6 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

You say it seems income would not be accepted but did your account actually show that monthly income deposit?

The bank book did not have monthly transfers from overseas at 40k as such, but it did have a few overseas transfers for over 100,000 THB. Had it been an option, I would have easily transferred in another 180,000 THB from overseas or something like that before my visa expires in 30 days, but she did not even give the option.

 

[lopburi3]

2 minutes ago, JakeR said:

The bank book did not have monthly transfers from overseas at 40k as such, but it did have a few overseas transfers for over 100,000 THB. Had it been an option, I would have easily transferred in another 180,000 THB from overseas or something like that before my visa expires in 30 days, but she did not even give the option.

 

Understand and trying to get to reason - appears your supporting documents did not confirm the Embassy income statement and that is reason it was not accepted.  Hopefully if others have documents to better confirm income it will be accepted.  Obviously you have had very bad luck and fear others of us will also feel this before official policy is provided.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, JakeR said:

The bank book did not have monthly transfers from overseas at 40k as such, but it did have a few overseas transfers for over 100,000 THB. Had it been an option, I would have easily transferred in another 180,000 THB from overseas or something like that before my visa expires in 30 days, but she did not even give the option.
 

It seems they still accepted the income affidavit but they wanted back up proof for it. That has been asked for by Phuket immigration before.

It you have a total of 480k baht of income being transferred into your account over the past year it should be accepted since clause 2.18 of the police for states average income is allowed.

"(6) In the case of marriage to a Thai woman, the alien husband must earn an average annual income of no less than Baht 40,000 per month or must have no less than Baht 400,000 in a bank account in Thailand for the past two months to cover expenses for one year."

[ElephantEgo]

@Ubonjoe maybe I should go back with a bank statement showing deposits from overseas in the past 12 months totaling 480,000 THB? I guess it would be worth a try? Since I have to go there two more times anyways.

 

Worrying thing is that she didnt even check for it or ask about it or request it....

Edited October 31, 2018 by JakeR

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, JakeR said:

@Ubonjoe maybe I should go back with a bank statement showing deposits from overseas in the past 12 months totaling 480,000 THB? I guess it would be worth a try? Since I have to go there two more times anyways.

You should do that. 

[ElephantEgo]

In this case what do I bring? Just an account statement showing those transactions? Or simply should ask the bank for a relevant letter etc?

[PoorSucker]

4 minutes ago, JakeR said:

In this case what do I bring? Just an account statement showing those transactions? Or simply should ask the bank for a relevant letter etc?

You should ask the bank for a statement for all transactions within a year, make sure they stamp the letter.

Immigration loves stamps.

[Sheryl]

When money is transferred from oversees there is something called a "credit advice" that comes in. Your bank HQ will have it.

 

Even though I use the 800K method my Imm office requires proof the money came from overseas, I get that in a bank letter and for that I have to show the bank the various credit advices. They then include the details in their letter, describing briefly each transfer.

 

You can arrange with most banks to have these Credit Advices sent to you routinely. Then when extension time comes around you bring them to the bank and have them include this info in a letter, i.e. Mr X bank account number X has received X transfers from abroad into his account as follows:  (amounts, dates, where from)"

 

This is what a Credit Advice from Kasikorn bank looks like:

 

[dick dasterdly]

I'm confused (admittedly I'm easily confused!) - were you unable to show verifying documentation in support of your income claim to 'back up' the US Embassy letter?

 

Presumably the IO was demanding that the required 'back up' proof was 40,000 bht p.m. deposited in your account for the last 12 months?

 

I'm concerned at this news as I also live on Phuket and whilst I am able to prove that my income is more than required, I haven't transferred a 'uniform' 65,000 bht p.m. into my Thai bank account.  Sometimes I transfer more, sometimes less.

Edited October 31, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It seems they still accepted the income affidavit but they wanted back up proof for it. That has been asked for by Phuket immigration beforepenses for one year."

 

The difference here being, from the OP's telling, presumably he could have provided proof of his monthly income from sources originating outside Thailand, but not necessarily being imported into Thailand during the past 12 months.

 

Up until now, there never has had to be any proof of funds being imported INTO Thailand in order to satisfy the monthly income requirement. And since regular income letters are supposed be considered valid for the time being, there's no justifiable reason for the OP to have been rejected -- unless he couldn't provide documentation of the outside Thailand income he declared on his affidavit.  And I don't see him saying that.

 

[Maestro]

3 hours ago, JakeR said:

...She looked at the income affidavit for a minute and then told me to make a copy of every page of my bank book. When I returned she told me she cannot accept the income affidavit because it proves nothing. Even if I showed that 480,000 THB+ came into my bank from overseas (12 months x 40,000) in the past 12 months, it seems this would NOT be accepted. The only proof she could accept, she said, would be 400,000 THB in the bank for 2-3 months...

 

Call the immigration hotline 1178 and see what they say.

[onera1961]

3 hours ago, JakeR said:

would have easily transferred in another 180,000 THB from overseas

I could not understand Where is 180K transfer is coming into picture. Did you transfer 400K in the last year (e.g. four 100K transfer, etc.)? That was the question I think asked. 

[Thaidream]

Not quite following- either-  since using the income method- they must have asked  you to prove you were getting income of 40K per month . It appears you showed a bank book but the required amount was 180,000 baht short.  They were looking for a total of  over 400K   However, the first Officer- said everything OK. You might consider going back to him.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

6 hours ago, JakeR said:

She looked at the income affidavit for a minute and then told me to make a copy of every page of my bank book. When I returned she told me she cannot accept the income affidavit because it proves nothing.

 

OP, when you went to Phuket Immigration:

 

1. Did you have backup documents with you, apart from the Income affidavit, showing sufficient monthly income coming from U.S. sources, such as U.S. bank statements, brokerage statements, pension statements etc?

 

2. And, if you did have any of those kinds of documents with you, did you show them or try to show them to the IO handling your application?  And if so, what was the result of that?

[cleopatra2]

17 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

OP, when you went to Phuket Immigration:

 

1. Did you have backup documents with you, apart from the Income affidavit, showing sufficient monthly income coming from U.S. sources, such as U.S. bank statements, brokerage statements, pension statements etc?

 

2. And, if you did have any of those kinds of documents with you, did you show them or try to show them to the IO handling your application?  And if so, what was the result of that?

This sort of misses the point

I thought the purpose of the Embassy Affidavit was that no further proof of income required, unless the IO had reason to doubt the claim.

The IO statement that the affidavit proved nothing  should raise the question what therefore is its purpose .

Edited October 31, 2018 by cleopatra2

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

10 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

This sort of misses the point

I thought the purpose of the Embassy Affidavit was that no further proof of income required, unless the IO had reason to doubt the claim.

The IO statement that the affidavit proved nothing  should raise the question what therefore is its purpose .

 

Embassy income letters documenting monthly income HAVE generally been accepted by Thai Immigration as sufficient proof, though they've always had the right to ask for backup documents if they choose.

 

But the point is now, even though the OP presumably had a valid Embassy income affidavit, the Immigration Officer apparently wasn't willing to accept it or rely on it. This coming at a time when Immigration has basically forced the U.S. and U.K. embassies to stop issuing such letters. So....

 

it's one thing if the IO would have accepted the OP's perfectly valid income affidavit, and just wanted to see backup documentation.

 

it's an entirely different thing if , as the OP seemed to be suggesting, she wasn't going to accept it period, regardless of whether the OP had backup documents from the U.S. supporting his declaration.

 

The answer to that detail would be pretty important for all the U.S. and UK extension applicants in Phuket who may plan on submitting valid Embassy income affidavits between now and mid 2019.

 

 

[moontang]

4 hours ago, Sheryl said:

When money is transferred from oversees there is something called a "credit advice" that comes in. Your bank HQ will have it.

 

Even though I use the 800K method my Imm office requires proof the money came from overseas, I get that in a bank letter and for that I have to show the bank the various credit advices. They then include the details in their letter, describing briefly each transfer.

 

You can arrange with most banks to have these Credit Advices sent to you routinely. Then when extension time comes around you bring them to the bank and have them include this info in a letter, i.e. Mr X bank account number X has received X transfers from abroad into his account as follows:  (amounts, dates, where from)"

 

This is what a Credit Advice from Kasikorn bank looks like:

 

I say BS on this...maybe your first one, if done within the country..not subsequent.  Never heard of anyone having to do this, and few could.

[cleopatra2]

58 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Embassy income letters documenting monthly income HAVE generally been accepted by Thai Immigration as sufficient proof, though they've always had the right to ask for backup documents if they choose.

 

But the point is now, even though the OP presumably had a valid Embassy income affidavit, the Immigration Officer apparently wasn't willing to accept it or rely on it. This coming at a time when Immigration has basically forced the U.S. and U.K. embassies to stop issuing such letters. So....

 

it's one thing if the IO would have accepted the OP's perfectly valid income affidavit, and just wanted to see backup documentation.

 

it's an entirely different thing if , as the OP seemed to be suggesting, she wasn't going to accept it period, regardless of whether the OP had backup documents from the U.S. supporting his declaration.

 

The answer to that detail would be pretty important for all the U.S. and UK extension applicants in Phuket who may plan on submitting valid Embassy income affidavits between now and mid 2019.

 

 

The issue for me is the necessity to provide income affidavit and supporting documents, unless there is  doubt about the income claim.

If the IO is requiring the supporting documents to verify the affidavit . then the need for the affidavit does not arise.

On providing the supporting documents, the IO will be required to examine such documents to verify the affidavit , thus rendering the affidavit moot.

[Sheryl]

I say BS on this...maybe your first one, if done within the country..not subsequent.  Never heard of anyone having to do this, and few could.

Every single one. 11 years straight now.

 

I was also required to show this in Bangkok Imm office on I think my 2nd or 3rd extension but that is amost 20 years ago.

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

[moontang]

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Every single one. 11 years straight now.

I was also required to show this in Bangkok Imm office onI think my3nd or 3rd extrnsion but that is more than 20 tears ago.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

might have been worth mentioning which obscure office you use.

[Ebumbu]

I am in same boat. Very upset. Following this thread. Man, no warning? This is insane. 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

7 minutes ago, Ebumbu said:

I am in same boat. Very upset. Following this thread. Man, no warning? This is insane. 

 

What exactly do you mean by "same boat"?  Specifics, please!

Edited October 31, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Ebumbu]

I use income method for purposes of retirement. I have deposited more than 800k into Thai bank over the course of the 2018 year (checking now and printing it out). I am upset that Phuket may have cancelled the income method with no warning. US Embassy is coming at the end of November and I was going to get affidavit. I may be overreacting, sure. I'm due to renew in December. No time. Considering immediate move to Pattaya. 

Suggestions? I am trying to stay calm. ????

Edited October 31, 2018 by Ebumbu

[Thaidream]

25 minutes ago, cleopatra2 said:

On providing the supporting documents, the IO will be required to examine such documents to verify the affidavit , thus rendering the affidavit moot.

This the argument the BE and US Embassy are using to discontinue the letter!!

[Sheryl]

31 minutes ago, moontang said:

might have been worth mentioning which obscure office you use.

Prachinburi

 

But my point in posting this was  how I do it, in answer to people wanting to know how one would demonstrate where funds came from.

 

Doers not solve the problem of those living off funds obtained through investment in Thailand or property rental in Thailand, but will work for those whose funds come from abroad.

[cleopatra2]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

This the argument the BE and US Embassy are using to discontinue the letter!!

Affidavit and evidence of is a contradiction.

Affidavit is a statement of fact without evidence/proof . If evidence/proof exists then an affidavit is not made.

 

I suspect the reason Thai immigration want embassy letter is because foreign issued documents have no jurisdiction outside country of issue unless legalised.