Australia joins the UK and USA with withdrawal of income verification

[xylophone]

8 minutes ago, JimGant said:

Naaaaaaa. Did you forget the combo method?

 

Presumably you're living on some amount of money brought into Thailand. And if that money is filtered through a Thai bank -- for the benefit of Immigration to see -- then for every baht brought in, the 800k requirement decreases by one baht.

But Jim, as the combo method still relies on the Embassy "proof of income" letter to back up the amount submitted monthly, it is still a no-go as this letter will not be available now, AND ATM in time the TI will not accept just a bank statement.

[wgdanson]

Look at it this way. Assume you have just got your letter from your Embassy to renew retirement extension this time, let's say in December. All good. Now you are going to need 800k in the bank before next September, meaning you will have to put 800,000 / 9 months into an account so that when next December's renewal come around you will have your 800k seasoned ready to go. That's 88,888 Bht per month.

[offset]

If they are talking about an average of 65000 a month that would mean that you could put 780000 in your account 2 days before you renewal and you would average 65000 a month for the year

 

But I guess they not mean that so it means we still have to wait for the TI to tell us what will be required

[mikosan]

1 hour ago, giddyup said:

It's designed to force expats to actually prove they can meet the financial criteria instead of signing a possibly fraudulent stat dec.

And I do not have a problem with that.  I can easily prove income and have always been happy to do so, except I was not required to do so, because I signed a statutory declaration at the Aussie Embassy.  All I and many others now want, is clarity from the Thai authorities as to how we can satisfy the proof of income requirements.  Rumour has it that there will be some clarification in the New Year.  Let's hope so, because it seems a little ironic when they appear to be trying to stop corruption, that even if you can prove sufficient income, if you cannot deposit 800k for 3 months prior to you extension application, you could have to pay some dodgy visa agent to fix that for you.  TIT.  

[elviajero]

37 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

we don't know that yet, the TI has made no public statement, we are only hearing from the embassies themselves.

Why do you think immigration would accept letters not confirming validation of income from nationals not from UK, US, or AUS?

 

All embassies will have to comply with Immigration’s request, or the letters they issue will not — obviously — be accepted.

 

It’s possible that some embassies will comply.

[Olmate]

If all expats were to put the (currently 800k) into Thai banks what would that generate,plus what we spend and benefits we provide?I reckon a trip home and a 2 year stay is really an option now.

[cleverman]

9 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Look at it this way. Assume you have just got your letter from your Embassy to renew retirement extension this time, let's say in December. All good. Now you are going to need 800k in the bank before next September, meaning you will have to put 800,000 / 9 months into an account so that when next December's renewal come around you will have your 800k seasoned ready to go. That's 88,888 Bht per month.

With all due respect, I think it's possible that some of us may have worked that out for ourselves. But, many thanks anyway. 

[soalbundy]

29 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Are you telling us that your Embassy officials go through every document you supply them with, verifying them with the issuing authority, ie Pension people, Investment company, Bank interest, private Rental contract, before they issue the Letter of Income. I doubt it very much.

My German letter says:-

This is to certify from the documents seen at this embassy that Mr X is receiving annuities from Germany xxxxEuro's. 

While they aren't saying we have checked the source of these documents it does make a positive impression, CERTIFY....IS RECEIVING, makes the right sort of noise

 

[wgdanson]

5 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

My German letter says:-

This is to certify from the documents seen at this embassy that Mr X is receiving annuities from Germany xxxxEuro's. 

While they aren't saying we have checked the source of these documents it does make a positive impression, CERTIFY....IS RECEIVING, makes the right sort of noise

 

And my UK one say 'Mr X has shown to us bank statements from A & B banks showing that he receives income totalling £XXX per annum. Sounds about the same to me.   But do you think it is the same MrX?

Edited November 2, 2018 by wgdanson

[wgdanson]

5 minutes ago, cleverman said:

With all due respect, I think it's possible that some of us may have worked that out for ourselves. But, many thanks anyway. 

Yes, but some of us may not, with all due respect of course, Sir.

[Old Croc]

14 minutes ago, LomSak27 said:

Awards for most ridiculous Conspiracy theory Post  goes to ezzra.     Since 1997 the powers that be have pursued a policy to discourage westerners. A fact not a theory. Will they raise the 400 and 800 k in a year? likely they could. However if the Chinese wave remains at ebb tide, maybe they rethink it.

Going from memory, I could be wrong here.

With previous rises in the required amount in the bank they grandfathered existing clients.  ie, there are retirees still around who only need to prove lower amounts in the bank than needed these days.

Can anyone confirm?

[Wanderlust]

1 minute ago, soalbundy said:

My German letter says:-

This is to certify from the documents seen at this embassy that Mr X is receiving annuities from Germany xxxxEuro's. 

While they aren't saying we have checked the source of these documents it does make a positive impression, CERTIFY....IS RECEIVING, makes the right sort of noise

 

While I hope I am wrong, I suspect that the German and other embassies will follow suit in the coming weeks. I also anticipate some sort of announcement from immigration, probably along the lines that income can be proved by deposits into a Thai bank account, falling into line with the lump sum method. I hope, but don't expect, they will allow foreign bank statements proving this as well.

[soalbundy]

4 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Why do you think immigration would accept letters not confirming validation of income from nationals not from UK, US, or AUS?

 

All embassies will have to comply with Immigration’s request, or the letters they issue will not — obviously — be accepted.

 

It’s possible that some embassies will comply.

I don't know why the IO does a lot of things, all I know is that the IO is accepting embassy letters and as of yet hasn't said that they wont. UK, US, AUS, have stopped issuing of their own accord, TI hasn't (as far as we know) told them to stop.

[ubonjoe]

33 minutes ago, GarryP said:

I am just not sure the basis of the minimum requirements - where were the figures pulled from when Thailand has a much lower cost of living? They have been in place for many years, although I do seem to recall there was a slight increase from 600k to 800k. 

If you look way back at the amounts needed. There were based upon a value in US dollars. It has been $2000 for retirement.

At one time it was 200k baht which was less than $2000 when the baht was 25 to the dollar. It was raised to 500k baht shortly after the during after the baht was devalued and was in the range of 50 baht per dollar.

In 2003 when the last increase was done the baht was at around 40 baht to the dollar which is again $2000 for the current 800k baht number.

For marriage it remained at 250k baht in the bank or 25k baht income until they changed it to 400k baht or 40k baht income in 2003.

 

[elviajero]

2 minutes ago, Old Croc said:

Going from memory, I could be wrong here.

With previous rises in the required amount in the bank they grandfathered existing clients.  ie, there are retirees still around who only need to prove lower amounts in the bank than needed these days.

Can anyone confirm?

You’re correct.

 

6) An alien who entered the Kingdom before October 21, 1998 and has been consecutively permitted to stay in the Kingdom for retirement shall be subject to the following criteria:
(a) Must be 60 years of age or over and have an annual fixed income with fluids maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 200,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 20,000
(b) If less than 60 years of age but not less than 55 years of age, must have an annual fixed income with funds maintained in a bank account for the past three months of no less than Baht 500,000 or have a monthly income of no less than Baht 50,000

[wgdanson]

16 minutes ago, offset said:

If they are talking about an average of 65000 a month that would mean that you could put 780000 in your account 2 days before you renewal and you would average 65000 a month for the year

 

But I guess they not mean that so it means we still have to wait for the TI to tell us what will be required

Sorry but it has to be 'seasoned', so put it in 3 months before re-newal date.

[mikosan]

Section 5 is interesting.  I read it that you must have an annual income of 800k and have deposited that sum in a Thai bank, in any 12 month period.  So an average of 66666.6667 Thai baht per month.  Just need to persuade the local Immigration officer that's what is says! 555  

[elviajero]

7 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

I don't know why the IO does a lot of things, all I know is that the IO is accepting embassy letters and as of yet hasn't said that they wont. UK, US, AUS, have stopped issuing of their own accord, TI hasn't (as far as we know) told them to stop.

Agreed.

 

But the embassies have stopped because they can’t/won’t issue letters with wording acceptable to immigration.

 

Logically if other embassies issue letters without acceptable wording they will be rejected by immigration.

Edited November 2, 2018 by elviajero

[cleverman]

27 minutes ago, giddyup said:

I'm sure they'll make an exception just for you.

Thank you, you are so kind. 

[shackleton]

As  I mentioned previously  when I was at the Chaeng wattana immigration office 

 getting my yearly retirement visa using the British Embassy Pension letter

was advised by the immigration lady to use the Bank option as married to a Thai  of the monthly transfer of 40,000 Baht for next Non O next year

now in process of getting  organized 

looks like the bank options are now what's required 

 

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, mikosan said:

Section 5 is interesting.  I read it that you must have an annual income of 800k and have deposited that sum in a Thai bank, in any 12 month period.  So an average of 66666.6667 Thai baht per month.  Just need to persuade the local Immigration officer that's what is says! 555  

The 800k baht number is for having it in a Thai bank for 3 months not income. Income is 65k baht per month.

 

[wgdanson]

2 minutes ago, mikosan said:

Section 5 is interesting.  I read it that you must have an annual income of 800k and have deposited that sum in a Thai bank, in any 12 month period.  So an average of 66666.6667 Thai baht per month.  Just need to persuade the local Immigration officer that's what is says! 555  

Where are you going to get 0.6667 satang from?

[soalbundy]

8 minutes ago, Wanderlust said:

While I hope I am wrong, I suspect that the German and other embassies will follow suit in the coming weeks. I also anticipate some sort of announcement from immigration, probably along the lines that income can be proved by deposits into a Thai bank account, falling into line with the lump sum method. I hope, but don't expect, they will allow foreign bank statements proving this as well.

We don't know anything, we don't know what the other embassies will do, much less what TI will do, the only official noise I here is my local IO saying we want the letter. Of course this can change but WE DON'T KNOW.

[offset]

9 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Sorry but it has to be 'seasoned', so put it in 3 months before re-newal date.

I was inferring that this was a way round the seasoning rule if applied under the monthly rule

[cleopatra2]

7 minutes ago, mikosan said:

Section 5 is interesting.  I read it that you must have an annual income of 800k and have deposited that sum in a Thai bank, in any 12 month period.  So an average of 66666.6667 Thai baht per month.  Just need to persuade the local Immigration officer that's what is says! 555  

And the supporting documents suggest the bank letter and passbook is sufficient

[cleverman]

15 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Yes, but some of us may not, with all due respect of course, Sir.

With all due respect again, I think we can all count and divide 800000 by 12. 

[mikosan]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The 800k baht number is for having it in a Thai bank for 3 months not income. Income is 65k baht per month.

 

Far be it me to argue with you Ubonjoe, but sections 3 & 4 cover that.  Section 5 says something different.  I was simply pointing that out and wondering what the correct interpretation would be.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Where are you going to get 0.6667 satang from?

By dividing 800k baht by 12 that is 66666.66666666667 baht. He could of rounded it up to 66667 baht though. 

[Wanderlust]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

We don't know anything, we don't know what the other embassies will do, much less what TI will do, the only official noise I here is my local IO saying we want the letter. Of course this can change but WE DON'T KNOW.

Of course, which is why I used the words 'suspect' and 'hope' in my post. However I predicted that others would follow suit when the BE announced, and I have been proven right with both US and Australians now announcing, so I think my predictions have been pretty accurate so far compared to others who slammed the BE for their announcement. All I am trying to do is plan for the worst and hope for the best.

[cleopatra2]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

The 800k baht number is for having it in a Thai bank for 3 months not income. Income is 65k baht per month.

 

Ubonjoe , the section 5 being referred to is for the combination method