E-cigarettes set to be legal in Thailand

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, BestB said:

What matters to smoker is that vaping is healthier alternative to his/her life. How much harm it still does to a body makes zero difference, because the vaping alternative is a healthier option to smoking

 

 

I've never argued, nor has the medical community, that vaping is worse or the same as regular cigarette smoking. Undoubtedly it's better. And I think Thailand making vaping illegal is absurd for a variety of reasons.

 

However, I think it's also undoubtedly true that even current smokers would be better off health wise if they did neither. It is possible to quit, you know...

 

Meanwhile, Scientific American on the subject:
 

Quote

 

But don’t be fooled into thinking that e-cigs are without risks or that you should now be able to vape to your heart’s content. Or that they’re plain healthy. First of all, nicotine is a drug and a powerfully habit-forming one at that, and a 2013 study suggests that even inhaling the drug via either conventional cigarettes or e-cigs may contribute to heart disease.

 

Also there is evidence that e-cigs deliver some toxic stuff of their own such as formaldehyde (a known carcinogen), nitrosamines (linked to cancer) and lead (a neurotoxin). Though the toxicant levels of e-cigs may be “9–450 times lower than in cigarette smoke,” as this study suggests, levels of formaldehyde and metals have been found to be comparable to or higher than those found in conventional cigarettes.* Silicate particles, which are a cause of lung disease, have also been found in e-cigarette vapors.

...

A small study by Wolfgang Schober of the Bavarian Health and Food Safety Authority and colleagues published in the International Journal of Hygiene and Environmental Health in December found that vaping worsened indoor air quality, specifically by increasing the concentration of nicotine, particulate matter, PAHs and aluminum — compounds that have been linked to lung and cardiovascular disease and cancer among other health effects.

 

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/e-cigs-and-second-hand-vaping/

 

[PEE TEE]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

The medical community disagrees with your opinion. And, as should be obvious, it's not just the starting ingredients that matter, but what they become and what elements are created through the heating and vaporization process, since that's what actually goes into people's lungs.

 

 If you live in a city the air you breath is more harmful than water vapour from E cigs 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just now, PEE TEE said:

 If you live in a city the air you breath is more harmful than water vapour from E cigs 

 

I think that depends on the city where you're living and the particular pollution levels in that city.

 

But it's irrelevant in my case, since we use HEPA air purifiers in my home in BKK that ensure our air indoors is quite good and free of pollution.  And when pollution levels are higher outside, I'll wear a 3M mask that prevents the gunky stuff from getting into my lungs.

 

People should be concerned about what they breath and the quality of their air -- regardless of whether the cause is cigarette smoking, vaping, or urban air pollution.

 

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I've never argued, nor has the medical community, that vaping is worse or the same as regular cigarette smoking. Undoubtedly it's better. And I think Thailand making vaping illegal is absurd for a variety of reasons.

 

However, I think it's also undoubtedly true that even current smokers would be better off health wise if they did neither. It is possible to quit, you know...

 

Meanwhile, Scientific American on the subject:
 

 

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/e-cigs-and-second-hand-vaping/

 

But again, you seem to be failing to understand, In a real world, for smokers vaping is a healthier alternative. Those who can or could quit do, for vast majority it is not easy.

 

Now there is a healthier option, which should be considered by the smokers and encouraged by the governments, who relentlessly complain about smokers being a burden on healthcare system(which i personally think is biggest bs ever, as smokers pay so much tax, that they cover their medical bills 3 times over)

 

Instead, they ban it, because there is no tax on it, hardly a rational decision when the very same people are all so worried about smokers.

 

No one argued or suggested non smokers should start vaping.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, BestB said:

But again, you seem to be failing to understand, In a real world, for smokers vaping is a healthier alternative. Those who can or could quit do, for vast majority it is not easy.

 

Now there is a healthier option, which should be considered by the smokers and encouraged by the governments, who relentlessly complain about smokers being a burden on healthcare system(which i personally think is biggest bs ever, as smokers pay so much tax, that they cover their medical bills 3 times over)

 

Instead, they ban it, because there is no tax on it, hardly a rational decision when the very same people are all so worried about smokers.

 

No one argued or suggested non smokers should start vaping.

 

I can agree with that and have accepted that all along. I never said otherwise. And I clearly said I thought Thailand making vaping illegal, a criminal offense, is absurd.

 

I only was disputing with people here who have kept arguing that vaping itself has no health risks (...it's just water vapor!)..., which simply is not supported by current medical research.

 

I don't think any reputable medical researcher in these fields would argue vaping is worse than regular cigarette smoking. And I wouldn't either.

 

 

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I can agree with that and have accepted that all along. I never said otherwise. And I clearly said I thought Thailand making vaping illegal, a criminal offense, is absurd.

 

I only was disputing with people here who have kept arguing that vaping itself has no health risks, which simply is not supported by current medical research.

 

I don't think any reputable medical researcher in these fields would argue vaping is worse than regular cigarette smoking. And I wouldn't either.

 

 

Totally agree, vaping most certainly is NOT 100% harmless, just a lot better than smoking ???? 

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

You seem to be trying to knock down an argument that e-cigs are worse than, or as bad, as regular cigarettes. And I don't think anyone's claiming that, and I'm certainly not. Nor am I arguing that e-cigs ought to be illegal, which pretty much makes no sense given that regular cigarettes are legal.

 

The only point I've been making all along is that reputable medical organizations and government health care bodies have warned that there CAN be health risks to vaping. And they have..  You may not choose to believe them. That's your choice. But it doesn't change the fact that those warnings have been issued by professionals and entities with better medical credentials than either you or I.

'The only point I've been making all along is that reputable medical organizations and government health care bodies have warned that there CAN be health risks to vaping.'

 

None of these 'reputable' studies held water.  They were theoretical at best. 

 

It's easy to say it could have health risks because there have been no longitudinal studies. Yes, it is possible, though thought to be very unlikely.

 

In the most commonly cited studies, both were found to be flawed.

 

Here is what Health England say : https://www.gov.uk/government/news/phe-publishes-independent-expert-e-cigarettes-evidence-review

 

 

[cookieqw]

the deck chairs will be a blast with all that strawberry smelling mist hovering under the umbrellas

[faraday]

9 hours ago, BestB said:

You may find freedom exists only on the paper, in reality you are dictated and punished should you not do as you told.

For example wearing a helmet, same principle applies, its my head, my life and my choice and yet you are forced to wear one and punished for not wearing one. ????

You make an interesting point in your first paragraph, but the second, I'm not so sure of.

 

Freedom isn't about doing what one wants, or even 'my body my choice' as the consequences of one's actions affect other people, people who we love & etc.

 

Also, before making the 'choice' one needs to know exactly what one is doing e.g. ' is vaping harmless'.

 

I've oversimplified it I know.

 

And yup, I smoke, & I know I shouldn't - which is sort of hypocritical!

 

Enjoy your day.

 

[PEE TEE]

which is fake news i see article 75. have no idea what to believe 

[Jessi]

Some members on this topic are talking absolute rubbish they don't have a clue about vaping.

 

A lot of the negative research about vaping has been put out by the Tobacco company's and the drug company's. Now some tobacco company's are making vaping equipment & liquid.

 

Here is a video by a Cardiac Surgeon in Canada that is so convinced by the benefits of vaping he has opened his own vape supply shop. If you wish to open your mind and learn about vaping I urge you to watch this video.

  https://www.cbc.ca/fifth/episodes/2016-2017/e-cigarettes-welcome-back-big-tobacco

[Xbeemer]

22 hours ago, Swiss1960 said:

That's ok, as long as they ban them from being used in the same places as the "real" cigarettes, e-smoke annoys, stinks and endangers in the same way as "real" smoke

Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Clearly you are spouting nonsense. The "smoke" from an e-cigarette is water vapour and contains no harmful substances. 

[Swiss1960]

Clearly you are spouting nonsense. The "smoke" from an e-cigarette is water vapour and contains no harmful substances. 

You lie to yourself and others. Two statements from a March 2018 study of the University of San Francisco:

"The presence of harmful ingredients in e-cigarette vapor has been established‍; we can now say that these chemicals are found in the body of human adolescents who use these products,” they wrote in their report, published in the journal Pediatrics.

"Teenagers need to be warned that the vapor produced by e-cigarettes is not harmless water vapor, but actually contains some of the same toxic chemicals found in smoke from traditional cigarettes," Rubinstein said in a statement. "Teenagers should be inhaling air, not products with toxins in them."



Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[geriatrickid]

21 hours ago, Neilly said:

Sorry to spoil a good rant...but there is no toxic substance in vape liquid

What exactly is e-liquid? E-Liquid is made up of four basic ingredients; water, nicotine, flavorings, and a propylene glycol or vegetable glycerin base (or sometimes a mixture of PG and VG).

 

The two you will be unfamiliar with are...

 

Propylene Glycol (PG) – This is a lab-made liquid that the FDA generally views as safe in food, drugs and cosmetics. It’s also used to make artificial smoke or fog for performances. It can irritate the lungs and eyes and may be more harmful for people with chronic lung diseases like asthma and emphysema.

Glycerin – Odorless and colorless, liquid glycerin has a slightly sweet taste. Like PG, the FDA generally views it as safe. It’s found in many products, including food and drugs, both prescription and over the counter medications.

There was no rant, but the truth, a subject that addicts desperate  to justify their addiction will forever try to deny. Look, if you want to deny the reality, that's your personal choice and when you die a slow and painful death from lung and/or heart related disease you can recite your fanciful claims to soothe your passage across the River Styx.

 

Your assertion falls apart because it is based upon the assumption that you actually know what is in the vaping liquid and that  all of the possible organic contaminants and  precursors to toxic byproducts have been removed. It's wonderful that you cite some potential ingredients, but there are no standards, no quality control and no inspections. How do you even know what's in the vaping liquid you are ingesting? Did you test it? Do you even know who makes it or how it is sourced? Are you even aware that most vaping  fluids are sourced from chemical suppliers who are not set up for the high standards of the food or pharmaceutical industry, but typically supply things like industrial cleaners, solvents etc. 

 

Desperate addicts will gladly accept what you claim, but educated people with an understanding of basic organic chemistry and who know that anyone can supply vaping products will just laugh at your ignorance.

 

 

[geriatrickid]

20 hours ago, BestB said:

At this stage I do not need to know. What I do know is that numerous tests showed 2 packs of cigs turn cotton wool black , vaping 60 ml bottle kept cotton wool dry and clean

LOL, Such rubbish. So what if the "cotton wool" (sic)  looked clean and dry? It means absolutely nothing. Toxic substances can do their damage in small quantities such that they are not readily visible. Why do you think/ personnel who fight fires must wear  a breathing apparatus, or lab workers working with small amounts of volatile organic substances are obliged to use fume hoods and  specially ventilated  rooms? My lab organic solvents did not leave a black sooty stain, but they could kill you, even in small amounts.

 

21 hours ago, johnnybangkok said:

Another ill-informed and frankly absurd statement.

E-cigarettes emit a vapor (which is why it's called 'vaping') that is completely harmless to the smoker and anyone in the vicinity. It's not smoke; it's more akin to steam or water vapor.

All in all, 50 times better than cigarettes.

  

It really is difficult not to laugh at the ignorance on display here.

It's  wrong I suppose, but it explains so much.

Vaping is not harmless and there isn't one study published in a reputable scientific journal, nor peer reviewed that supports the claims of of the vape pushers. However, there are  growing number of studies that highlight the dangers.

As far back as 2014 there are reports like the Chemical evaluation of electronic cigarettes (citing research from the US FDA)  that was in the British Medical Journal (May 2014 - Volume 23 - suppl 2). The report showed that there were;

Wide ranges in the levels of chemical substances such as tobacco-specific nitrosamines, aldehydes, metals, volatile organic compounds, phenolic compounds, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, flavours, solvent carriers, tobacco alkaloids and drugs in e-cigarette refill solutions, cartridges, aerosols and environmental emissions.  Ultrafine particulate matter with different particle size distribution ranges was reported in e-cigarette aerosols and environmental emissions.

 

Undeniable fact, so please don't toss out some unsubstantiated, unsupported crap to justify the inhalation of chemicals. You want to do it, fine by me, but don't  try and  justify it with fake BS science.

 

Vapers are not much different than glue sniffers . They are both addicts and they will lie to justify what they do. That's their business. if they want to inhale the toxic fumes, so be it, but they should just be honest and say, hey we are drug addicts and prefer to vape because it is safer because vapers do not fall asleep  with a  cigarette and set the place  on fire. Vapers don't toss cigarette butts out the window of a vehicle and start a wildfire and they don't smell like a disgusting ashtray. Vapers may not even have the rotten teeth and gums of heavy tobacco users. Possibly true, However, vapers will still die of lung and/heart disease and/or cancers at a  significantly higher rate than non vapers and non smokers.it is usually a long drawn out affair and the people suffer.

 

[dallen52]

15 hours ago, PEE TEE said:

Not smoke vapour . There is no ignition

Excuse my ignorance on the subject. 

Never been a smoker.

 

My son however. 

E cigs and huge smoke signals emitted when he uses the contraption. 

 

Is there a difference?

Vaping I can understand to be vapour.

E cigs I see in the UK and Australia seem to have a big white cloud attached to the users. 

[mommysboy]

29 minutes ago, dallen52 said:

Excuse my ignorance on the subject. 

Never been a smoker.

 

My son however. 

E cigs and huge smoke signals emitted when he uses the contraption. 

 

Is there a difference?

Vaping I can understand to be vapour.

E cigs I see in the UK and Australia seem to have a big white cloud attached to the users. 

A very big difference in that e-cigs do not contain harmful tar and carbon monoxide.

 

There are trace toxins, yet coffee, for example, contains chemicals which in sufficient quantity can cause cancer. It's safe of course because the chemicals are in very low concentration, and the same goes for vaping. It's not possible to be sure because no longitudinal studies are available.   

 

Visit the Health England link I posted earlier.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

30 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Vaping is not harmless and there isn't one study published in a reputable scientific journal, nor peer reviewed that supports the claims of of the vape pushers. However, there are  growing number of studies that highlight the dangers.

 

I think that's a fair recap and statement of the FACTS.... Although I'd also add, as others have mentioned above, it does appear to be true that vaping probably is LESS harmful that smoking regular cigarettes.... That doesn't mean there is no harm is vaping. Just means, probably, the lesser of two harms.

 

I have been amused/dismayed by a variety of the prior posts in this thread with (I presume) vapers loudly insisting their is no harm to their habit, and claiming all the established medical opinions on the subject have been discredited -- without ever posting one reputable sources for those claims, like as you mentioned, a peer reviewed scientific journal or independent research entity.

 

I guess it's a matter of trying to see clearly and reality thru all the smoke and haze! 

 

[mommysboy]

6 hours ago, PEE TEE said:

which is fake news i see article 75. have no idea what to believe 

Unfortunately the news that e-cigs are set to be legalised appears to be the inaccurate article.

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I think that's a fair recap and statement of the FACTS.... Although I'd also add, as others have mentioned above, it does appear to be true that vaping probably is LESS harmful that smoking regular cigarettes.... That doesn't mean there is no harm is vaping. Just means, probably, the lesser of two harms.

 

I have been amused/dismayed by a variety of the prior posts in this thread with (I presume) vapers loudly insisting their is no harm to their habit, and claiming all the established medical opinions on the subject have been discredited -- without ever posting one reputable sources for those claims, like as you mentioned, a peer reviewed scientific journal or independent research entity.

 

I guess it's a matter of trying to see clearly and reality thru all the smoke and haze! 

 

That's really inaccurate.  

 

The established medical opinion appears on Health England for example and in peer studied reviews, and medical publications such as the Lancet, and the (relative) safety of vaping has been accepted only this year by FDA USA.

 

Other studies, regarded as speculative or incomplete, have no need to be disproven, rather it is the responsibility of their authors to prove that they are right.

 

Myth busting- you, in particular, really need to read this:https://publichealthmatters.blog.gov.uk/2018/02/20/clearing-up-some-myths-around-e-cigarettes/

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

4 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

That's really inaccurate.  

 

The established medical opinion appears on Health England for example and in peer studied reviews, and medical publications such as the Lancet, and the (relative) safety of vaping has been accepted only this year by FDA USA.

 

Other studies, regarded as speculative or incomplete, have no need to be disproven, rather it is the responsibility of their authors to prove that they are right.

 

More unsubstantiated and un-cited claims on your part.... If you have some original, credible source to cite, then cite it....

 

As for the U.S. FDA, here's what's in the news from them just two days ago:

 

 

Quote

 

The Food and Drug Administration, alarmed by a huge increase in vaping among minors, is expected to impose severe restrictions on the sale of e-cigarette products throughout the United States — actions that will probably have a significant impact on an industry that has grown exponentially in recent years with little government oversight.
 

As soon as next week, FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb is expected to announce a ban on the sale of most flavored e-cigarettes in tens of thousands of convenience stores and gas stations across the country, according to senior agency officials. The agency will also impose such rules as age-verification requirements for online sales, the officials say.
...
The only exception to the ­flavored-products ban in convenience stores involves mint and menthol ­e-cigarette products. The FDA will continue to permit sales of those flavors because menthol is permitted in regular cigarettes, and the agency doesn’t want to give traditional cigarettes an advantage over e-cigarettes.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/fda-plans-to-impose-severe-restrictions-on-e-cigarettes/2018/11/08/91253cf2-e3a1-11e8-8f5f-a55347f48762_story.html?utm_term=.2493f4b405a1

 

[BestB]

1 hour ago, geriatrickid said:

LOL, Such rubbish. So what if the "cotton wool" (sic)  looked clean and dry? It means absolutely nothing. Toxic substances can do their damage in small quantities such that they are not readily visible. Why do you think/ personnel who fight fires must wear  a breathing apparatus, or lab workers working with small amounts of volatile organic substances are obliged to use fume hoods and  specially ventilated  rooms? My lab organic solvents did not leave a black sooty stain, but they could kill you, even in small amounts.

 

It really is difficult not to laugh at the ignorance on display here.

It's  wrong I suppose, but it explains so much.

Vaping is not harmless and there isn't one study published in a reputable scientific journal, nor peer reviewed that supports the claims of of the vape pushers. However, there are  growing number of studies that highlight the dangers.

As far back as 2014 there are reports like the Chemical evaluation of electronic cigarettes (citing research from the US FDA)  that was in the British Medical Journal (May 2014 - Volume 23 - suppl 2). The report showed that there were;

Wide ranges in the levels of chemical substances such as tobacco-specific nitrosamines, aldehydes, metals, volatile organic compounds, phenolic compounds, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, flavours, solvent carriers, tobacco alkaloids and drugs in e-cigarette refill solutions, cartridges, aerosols and environmental emissions.  Ultrafine particulate matter with different particle size distribution ranges was reported in e-cigarette aerosols and environmental emissions.

 

Undeniable fact, so please don't toss out some unsubstantiated, unsupported crap to justify the inhalation of chemicals. You want to do it, fine by me, but don't  try and  justify it with fake BS science.

 

Vapers are not much different than glue sniffers . They are both addicts and they will lie to justify what they do. That's their business. if they want to inhale the toxic fumes, so be it, but they should just be honest and say, hey we are drug addicts and prefer to vape because it is safer because vapers do not fall asleep  with a  cigarette and set the place  on fire. Vapers don't toss cigarette butts out the window of a vehicle and start a wildfire and they don't smell like a disgusting ashtray. Vapers may not even have the rotten teeth and gums of heavy tobacco users. Possibly true, However, vapers will still die of lung and/heart disease and/or cancers at a  significantly higher rate than non vapers and non smokers.it is usually a long drawn out affair and the people suffer.

 

What is it that you find absurd? that ecig does not leave any residue in comparison to regular cigarette?

 

Let me simplify it for you, tests using cotton wool shows what residue is left by inhaling smoke/vapor from ecig, it simulates your lungs. So if cotton wool remains same color and dry, that would suggest your lungs would be remain unharmed.

 

Then you decide to stand even lower and equal vaping to glue sniffing, which really shows how ignorant you really are.

 

For starters, those who sniff glue get inebriated, become paranoid, loss of comprehension,  basically high.

 

Person vaping, does not get high, crazy, paranoid or any of a kind. Person who vapes does attack people due to being paranoid of become aggressive after having a few vapes.

 

Funny how you make rather silly assertive statements, claiming vapers will still die of lung and/heart disease, do you have any evidence to support your claim? or just another ignorant opinion passed as a fact?

[mommysboy]

24 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

More unsubstantiated and un-cited claims on your part.... If you have some original, credible source to cite, then cite it....

 

As for the U.S. FDA, here's what's in the news from them just two days ago:

 

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/fda-plans-to-impose-severe-restrictions-on-e-cigarettes/2018/11/08/91253cf2-e3a1-11e8-8f5f-a55347f48762_story.html?utm_term=.2493f4b405a1

 

This is about the misuse of vaping by teenagers!

[mommysboy]

New Zealand:

 

Overturned ban- citing '

• The evidence on vaping products indicates they carry much less risk than smoking cigarettes but are not risk free.

 

That's fair, given we do not have any long term studies and nicotine does effect cardiovascular function, just as caffeine does.

[ukrules]

On 11/9/2018 at 2:07 PM, Neilly said:

 

Propylene Glycol (PG) – This is a lab-made liquid that the FDA generally views as safe in food, drugs and cosmetics. It’s also used to make artificial smoke or fog for performances. It can irritate the lungs and eyes and may be more harmful for people with chronic lung diseases like asthma and emphysema.

 

Why do they use propylene glycol in both asthma inhalers and nebulisers if it's bad for people with asthma and lung problems ?

 

What you stated is very inaccurate, the source you're using here is completely wrong. In fact I would class it as anti vaping propaganda designed for the uneducated.

[johnnybangkok]

2 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

LOL, Such rubbish. So what if the "cotton wool" (sic)  looked clean and dry? It means absolutely nothing. Toxic substances can do their damage in small quantities such that they are not readily visible. Why do you think/ personnel who fight fires must wear  a breathing apparatus, or lab workers working with small amounts of volatile organic substances are obliged to use fume hoods and  specially ventilated  rooms? My lab organic solvents did not leave a black sooty stain, but they could kill you, even in small amounts.

 

It really is difficult not to laugh at the ignorance on display here.

It's  wrong I suppose, but it explains so much.

Vaping is not harmless and there isn't one study published in a reputable scientific journal, nor peer reviewed that supports the claims of of the vape pushers. However, there are  growing number of studies that highlight the dangers.

As far back as 2014 there are reports like the Chemical evaluation of electronic cigarettes (citing research from the US FDA)  that was in the British Medical Journal (May 2014 - Volume 23 - suppl 2). The report showed that there were;

Wide ranges in the levels of chemical substances such as tobacco-specific nitrosamines, aldehydes, metals, volatile organic compounds, phenolic compounds, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, flavours, solvent carriers, tobacco alkaloids and drugs in e-cigarette refill solutions, cartridges, aerosols and environmental emissions.  Ultrafine particulate matter with different particle size distribution ranges was reported in e-cigarette aerosols and environmental emissions.

 

Undeniable fact, so please don't toss out some unsubstantiated, unsupported crap to justify the inhalation of chemicals. You want to do it, fine by me, but don't  try and  justify it with fake BS science.

 

Vapers are not much different than glue sniffers . They are both addicts and they will lie to justify what they do. That's their business. if they want to inhale the toxic fumes, so be it, but they should just be honest and say, hey we are drug addicts and prefer to vape because it is safer because vapers do not fall asleep  with a  cigarette and set the place  on fire. Vapers don't toss cigarette butts out the window of a vehicle and start a wildfire and they don't smell like a disgusting ashtray. Vapers may not even have the rotten teeth and gums of heavy tobacco users. Possibly true, However, vapers will still die of lung and/heart disease and/or cancers at a  significantly higher rate than non vapers and non smokers.it is usually a long drawn out affair and the people suffer.

 

What absolute drivel. 

My view is supported by a number of key bodies, including Cancer Research UK, Action on Smoking and Health, the Royal College of Physicians, the British Medical Association and recently, a major US science body, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine.

You talk about a 2014 study that has been refuted many times in this thread yet you still hold on to it likes it is gospel. Like ALL products I’m sure there are inconsistencies with lower grade products but a well regulated system (like in the U.K.) ensures that lower standard products get either banned or at the least, badly reviewed. 

The UK has one of the most comprehensive systems of regulation for e-cigarettes in the world. This includes:

• minimum standards of safety and quality
• packaging and labelling requirements
• a ban on advertising in print, broadcast, online and other electronic media
• a ban on the sale of e-cigarettes to under-18s and on purchase by adults on behalf of under-18s

No one is saying vaping is completely harmless but when the UKs Nhs endorses it to the point they recommend ALL smokers turn to vaping instead, you can be pretty sure they have a load more knowledge than you do. 

 

[simtemple]

It wouldn't have anything to do with the role of  Philip Morris International in the Thai tobacco industry would it ?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-philipmorris-outlook/marlboro-maker-philip-morris-to-enter-e-cigarette-business-idUSBRE9AJ0YH20131120

[PEE TEE]

1 hour ago, johnnybangkok said:

What absolute drivel. 

My view is supported by a number of key bodies, including Cancer Research UK, Action on Smoking and Health, the Royal College of Physicians, the British Medical Association and recently, a major US science body, the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine.

You talk about a 2014 study that has been refuted many times in this thread yet you still hold on to it likes it is gospel. Like ALL products I’m sure there are inconsistencies with lower grade products but a well regulated system (like in the U.K.) ensures that lower standard products get either banned or at the least, badly reviewed. 

The UK has one of the most comprehensive systems of regulation for e-cigarettes in the world. This includes:

• minimum standards of safety and quality
• packaging and labelling requirements
• a ban on advertising in print, broadcast, online and other electronic media
• a ban on the sale of e-cigarettes to under-18s and on purchase by adults on behalf of under-18s

No one is saying vaping is completely harmless but when the UKs Nhs endorses it to the point they recommend ALL smokers turn to vaping instead, you can be pretty sure they have a load more knowledge than you do. 

 

The world is full of DOGOODERS like the one who is 100% anti vaping . in fact for those who smoke the coffin nails . vaping is in way saving lives and proved to be 95% safer than smoking . i started 4 years ago and not had 1 cigarette since . The bogus studies are about the same amount as the proper ones  and i can see and understand that people are gullible.

i agree with your comment  

[ukrules]

I'm just going to leave this image here, this is now, they've been selling them for years at this stage :

 

 

You need to go in person to buy the above vaping devicem they have been on sale in pharmacies in the UK for a number of years now.

 

Vaping is coming to Thailand whether the government wants it or not.

 

The longer they wait the more it will affect Thailand negatively.

 

The numbers of people who have quit cigarettes by swapping over to vaping are continuously growing year on year.

 

NONE of them will come to Thailand for tourism if they are properly informed about the penalties, right now they're not properly informed about these new penalties.

 

[HaleySabai]

Yipee, my Shatter & Budder pens will fit right into this newly purposed landscape!