Are agents still operating or has Big Joke wiped them out

[smedly]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

I pay an agent to deal with my perfectly legal retirement extensions and 90 day reports (although I still have to provide all the necessary paperwork), because it's worth the money (to me) to avoid the stress of having to visit and deal with the Immigration office.

completely different to the intended purpose of this topic, I also know people who use agents for various things that are all 100% legal - they are also not paying 12-15k baht simply because they comply already, all the agent is doing is the trip to IO

[smedly]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Very few, if any, are trying to "circumnavigate" the Immigration departments

you are so very wrong about that - I know of many

 

In fact every person that know that uses an agent is doing just that

Edited November 11, 2018 by smedly

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, smedly said:

respectfully - a lot of the people using agents don't have money in the bank or produce any income - that is the reality, the agent puts the money in and removes it the same day - it is not their 800k baht

I hate to be defending this side of the argument (makes me feel like I need a shower), but there is no rule saying the money cannot be loaned.  Due to the seasoning rules, for an "in-person" application, one would need a 3 mo loan (2-mo in some cases).  Many do it this way.

 

This seasoning rule was added to prevent the use of even shorter-term loans by entities other than the agents who pay "compensation," for waiving the seasoning; a rule created to protect the scheme from "day-loan" competition, in other words. 

[smedly]

19 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I hate to be defending this side of the argument (makes me feel like I need a shower), but there is no rule saying the money cannot be loaned.  Due to the seasoning rules, for an "in-person" application, one would need a 3 mo loan (2-mo in some cases).  Many do it this way.

 

This seasoning rule was added to prevent the use of even shorter-term loans by entities other than the agents who pay "compensation," for waiving the seasoning; a rule created to protect the scheme from "day-loan" competition, in other words. 

like I said in the OP - I have no issue with people using this grey facility - up to them

 

How many more are going to be forced into using it and is it even still available since the new head of IO stated he intended to wipe out corruption/backhanders/extra payments

Edited November 11, 2018 by smedly

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

This seasoning rule was added to prevent the use of even shorter-term loans by entities other than the agents who pay "compensation," for waiving the seasoning; a rule created to protect the scheme from "day-loan" competition, in other words. 

The rule requiring it in the bank for 3 months was to also to stop a group of friends from pooling their money to meet the 800k baht income from what I read about it years ago. Money was moved into one account and moved to another one after the extension was done. 

The short term loan is still an option by getting a loan for 3 months. I can recall an advert for a company doing it for those that owned condos or a house through a company set up to own it. I think owning a car was also included as well. 

[SheungWan]

10 hours ago, Spidey said:

It was me and there was no confusion on my part. The only confusion was from the embassy official. When I showed her a copy of the relevant page on the Thai Embassy UK website stating that age 50 and above was the age limit, she told me that the printout didn't come from their website and was fake.

Don't take that as typical of all Thai embassies, the embassy in London has a particularly bad reputation.

I later learned that if I'd made my application at the consulate in Hull, I wouldn't have had a problem. However, another poster recently said that the Hull consulate no longer provide that service, how true that is, I don't know.

I find the London Thai Embassy excellent and helpful in processing visas and that has been with both O-A and Non-Imm O, notwithstanding some colourful stories from round and about.

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, smedly said:

like I said in the OP - I have no issue with people using this grey facility - up to them

How many more are going to be forced into using it and is it even still available since the new head of IO stated he intended to wipe out corruption/backhanders/extra payments

Its available. Right now. Never mind the speculation if this, if that.

[SheungWan]

I get the impression with one or two of the contributors to this thread that they would like to wreck the agency visa facility. And wrapped up in some bogus morality.

Edited November 11, 2018 by SheungWan

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, SheungWan said:

I get the impression with one or two of the contributors to this thread that they would like to wreck the agency visa facility. And wrapped up in some bogus morality.

Seems to me then there is some bogus morality on both sides of the equation:

 

But what about those poor helpless down-to-earth people with wives and families who would not otherwise be able to stay in the Land of Smiles?

[bkk6060]

Never will be a crackdown and they will be busier then ever.

[bkk6060]

9 hours ago, smedly said:

like I said in the OP - I have no issue with people using this grey facility - up to them

 

How many more are going to be forced into using it and is it even still available since the new head of IO stated he intended to wipe out corruption/backhanders/extra payments

His no tip and the general philosophy at this point is targeted more at the borders.

Agents rea. Visas are encouraged by immigration.

Money yes, but so much less muss and fuss and BS for Imm. to deal with.

 

Also, those that say people who use agents are criminals or do not qualify are way out of touch.  I know several pilots, businessmen, professionals in Bangkok that use them exclusively they do not have the time otherwise.

Edited November 11, 2018 by bkk6060

[JLCrab]

16 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I know several pilots, businessmen, professionals in Bangkok that use them exclusively they do not have the time otherwise.

If they are still putting 800K baht in the bank for 3 moths prior to extension then they are not engaging in criminal activity; if there is no 800K in the bank for 3 months prior to extension, unless in the unlikely event that they have engaged the Item 5. exception and have only paid 1900 baht for their extension, then they are.

 

Not that I think that this whole process is going to go away, just that that's what it is.

Edited November 11, 2018 by JLCrab

[GeorgeCross]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

But what about those poor helpless down-to-earth people with wives and families who would not otherwise be able to stay in the Land of Smiles?

 

they still have the option to go to Savanakhet and get a multiple entry non-o based on their marriage & with no financials. inconvenient especially with the border bounces every 90 days but better than a long flight home alone.

 

 

[GeorgeCross]

makes me laugh those on here justifying this route

 

its not the asian way, pilots don't do it & you don't pay 20K+ just to 'fit in with the system'

 

call it what it is lol

 

for my 2 penneth, this is way worse than using a system in a way it wasn't supposed to be used. ie: full time living on ed, tourist or voa's - you are paying a bribe for an IO to overlook the seasoning requirement on your application.

 

i hope to god BJ doesn't take a look at these applications because he is aware it was something mentioned in the case of the indians in udonthani being busted for fake marriages. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2018 by GeorgeCross

[onera1961]

22 hours ago, gaviny said:

it will make a mockery of the crackdown

What crackdown? As I can assess, crackdown is for people on drugs, expired visa, entering into the country  illegally, working illegally, etc. I have not read a report of crackdown on agents. 

[JohnnyBD]

Someone referred to the Agent system in another thread. I am a bit naïve about this, but what is the Agent system? I used an agent in Sep for the first time because I had to renew in CW in BK this time instead of Jomtien (which was very easy). CW was crazy... several hundred people waiting in line. I thought the agents only helped with the paperwork & fast-tracking thru the wait lines. Do the Agents offer some other benefits that I don't know about? Also, I used the income affidavit method 3 times and it was very convenient. But, I thought to myself, this is too easy, if TI ever found out we only had to hold up our right hand and swear we had income without proving it, they would stop this, and now they have. I have a pension and meet the monthly requirement, but the US embassy didn't want to see my pension statement and neither did TI. I guess I will use the 800k method next Sep to play it safe just in case TI doesn't accept the monthly income method. If there's an easier way to do it that I don't know about please share. What is the Agent system? Kindly, Johnny

Edited November 12, 2018 by JohnnyBD

[onera1961]

22 minutes ago, JohnnyBD said:

Do the Agents offer some other benefits that I don't know about?

You don't want to know. Ethics and Moral police will hound you. If you have 800K, you can still use an agent to ease the process. You can ask your agent if they offer any other services. 

[ubonjoe]

A inflammatory post has been removed.

[madmitch]

I read this thread and immediately after in the sponsors column there's a company advertising retirement extensions with no 800,000/65,000 baht required. 

 

A friend of mine used this method and he showed me his bank book; 800,000 baht in and out of the account on the same day. He has been worried about the legalities and has decided that given his circumstances, i.e. he comes to Thailand 3 times a year for two months at a time, he'll revert to tourist visas. Personally I have no idea how the agent persuaded him to part with over THB30,000 when in reality he does not need a retirement extension.

[JackThompson]

13 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The rule requiring it in the bank for 3 months was to also to stop a group of friends from pooling their money to meet the 800k baht income from what I read about it years ago. Money was moved into one account and moved to another one after the extension was done. 

The short term loan is still an option by getting a loan for 3 months. I can recall an advert for a company doing it for those that owned condos or a house through a company set up to own it. I think owning a car was also included as well. 

Yes.  I had a loan-document of that sort blow onto my 20th floor condo-porch once - exactly 400K Baht loan.  I didn't make note of the details at the time (thought I'd always be able to get an embassy-letter), but I would guess this is very common - perhaps cheaper to pay the interest for 2 or 3 mo than the agent-fee in some cases.

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, JohnnyBD said:

Someone referred to the Agent system in another thread.

...

I answered you there:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1065147-just-received-some-bad-news-for-us-citizens-no-more-income-affidavits/?do=findComment&comment=13554879

 

[onera1961]

14 hours ago, smedly said:

they are also not paying 12-15k baht simply because they comply already, all the agent is doing is the trip to IO

How much do they charge if I already have the money? Just to ease the process and 90-day reporting?

[JRUSA]

25k, someone was taken, if I was to have done it..12k..????

[onera1961]

22 hours ago, JLCrab said:

That gent corrected himself and that he was applying for an O not OA.

Because most people don't discuss it in this forum, though recently I have seen an increased advise on getting an O-A as no Thai embassy/consulate in the US will issue an O unless you have a Thai wife or child. 

[onera1961]

22 hours ago, smedly said:

O-A visa if you don't mind going home and jumping through hoops to get it

In US where I live, there are no hoops. Free police report and a physical exam by an immigration doctor (almost every city has an immigration certified doctor in the US). Costs around $75 (my insurance paid for it). And $200 for the application fee. Greatest advantage is no need to move money to Thailand. Next time I may apply using my 401K statements and see if that passes the muster. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by onera1961

[NoshowJones]

On 11/11/2018 at 8:52 AM, darksidedog said:

A friend of mine who runs a visa office assured me that while there were 2 or 3 initial difficult days, everything has returned entirely to normal. I can't say I was overly surprised. I have never seen a crackdown on anything here last more than a week.

You actually mean a crackdown of more than 24 hours?? ????

[NoshowJones]

On 11/11/2018 at 9:17 AM, gaviny said:

Well if they are allowed to continue it will make a mockery of the crackdown and in actual fact their business will boom from retirees milking the embassy letter previously.

Sent from my SM-N9200 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

There are many retiree expats who are not rich but can easily afford to get by and have wives and families, many of whom they have taken out of poverty. These people should not be penalised and should be treated with a lot more respect and taken away from 90 day reports and useless visa runs and border hops.

I will ask this question again, are there any SE countries who treat their expats they way Thailand does?

[smedly]

1 hour ago, onera1961 said:

How much do they charge if I already have the money? Just to ease the process and 90-day reporting?

90 day report 200baht

extension if you tick all the boxes 3-4k baht

[BobTH]

50 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

In US where I live, there are no hoops. Free police report and a physical exam by an immigration doctor (almost every city has an immigration certified doctor in the US). Costs around $75 (my insurance paid for it). And $200 for the application fee. Greatest advantage is no need to move money to Thailand. Next time I may apply using my 401K statements and see if that passes the muster. 

Really, most cities have an immigration certified doctor, I wasn't aware of that. May I ask if these doctor typically just sign off on your past medical history or are you required to take all of the health tests? I assume for $75, it is your past history. I am a US citizen also.

Edited November 12, 2018 by BobTH

[NoshowJones]

On 11/11/2018 at 9:30 AM, smedly said:

part of the reason I was asking, it was suggested that all this income letter/affidavit debacle could actually be an attempt by immigration to extract money from those that cannot meet the requirements easily or are just unwilling to do so

 

I don't use an agent myself but I don't have any issue with someone doing so - up to them, but it also shows just how effective our new immigration leader is when he makes statements about wiping out corruption, maybe he would be better saying nothing

As I have said before, no authority of any kind is going to allow anything to happen that will affect their income stream.

If more people are going to use agents, that will up their income stream and also of those they deal with.

Maybe that was the whole idea in the first place.