Where have all the Chinese gone? Thai media say TAT in denial about tourism numbers in Pattaya

[Ctkong]

On 11/16/2018 at 5:09 PM, Kim J said:

"Where have all the Chinese gone"?

 

Well I would say they have gone just the same way as every group of "quality tourists" that come to Pattaya. Once the reality of the place dawns and word gets around they will simply go anywhere else but here.

My other half was asking me similar questions a few years ago when the Russian families all but disappeared for a time. I simply put one question to her and she has never asked again, that question being: Would you like it and what would we do if we were on holiday here in the middle of Pattaya with our daughter?

Ultimately there is little here to interest or accommodate normal families, take away the bars etc, and what would there be to interest anyone? Here is a brief list of what Pattaya does have.

Endless prostitution.

Filthy sea and beaches.

Litter strewn streets.

Constant harassment.

Permanent traffic jams.

Having to walk on roads due to lack of pavements or pavements blocked with vehicles, retailers etc etc.

Nowhere to safely cross busy roads.

It is rife with crime.

It is rife with antisocial behaviour.

It is rife with corruption and dishonesty.

Constant harassment from police if you drive.

They now want to charge first world prices for third world quality and service.

Maybe all these notoriety make people curious about pattaya and they had to come and see if it is really as bad as some people  make out? 

[jacko45k]

On 11/17/2018 at 7:52 AM, mike1967 said:

All very true!!!

Many true of China too so they should feel at home.

There are Chinese and Russians in Pattaya at the moment!

 

And sunshine and a good Beach if one would care to take a look.

Also shopping Malls to rival Bangkok.

 

A few less tourists from China seems to improve things for the rest.

[rott]

20 hours ago, Kim J said:

I dare say you will indeed experience a number of those points, however where in China tries to market itself as "South East Asia's Premier Family Resort"? Also what does anything in your post have that relates to the currently declining numbers of Chinese tourists in Pattaya?

 

Although not exclusively the reasons, I think the 10 points I listed are a significant factor behind it. Regardless of what you say, in my opinion Pattaya is anything but a suitable tourist destination for families. I would never take my daughter on holiday to somewhere that even resembled the place, neither would any other responsible parent.

"South East Asia's Premier Family Resort"? This is news to me that Pattaya presented/marketed itself this way. Difficult to believe.

 

An earlier post has a Russian saying that Pattaya advertising misled them. Was that in the same way.

[simoh1490]

21 minutes ago, rott said:

"South East Asia's Premier Family Resort"? This is news to me that Pattaya presented/marketed itself this way. Difficult to believe.

 

An earlier post has a Russian saying that Pattaya advertising misled them. Was that in the same way.

I don't know if this helps but Tripadvisor's 2018 list of the top 25 hotels for families in Asia has Pattaya in fourth place and cites it as, "the best hotel for kids":

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/TravelersChoice-Hotels-cFamily-g2

[rott]

31 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I don't know if this helps but Tripadvisor's 2018 list of the top 25 hotels for families in Asia has Pattaya in fourth place and cites it as, "the best hotel for kids":

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/TravelersChoice-Hotels-cFamily-g2

Probably fine if you never leave the hotel or at least don't wander too far, I am a bit out of touch with Naklua these days.

[fanjita]

43 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

I don't know if this helps but Tripadvisor's 2018 list of the top 25 hotels for families in Asia has Pattaya in fourth place and cites it as, "the best hotel for kids":

 

https://www.tripadvisor.com/TravelersChoice-Hotels-cFamily-g2

With all due respect the 'resort' has as much in common with Patts as it has the moon.  

[newnative]

31 minutes ago, fanjita said:

With all due respect the 'resort' has as much in common with Patts as it has the moon.  

Check out Wong Amat sometime.  Great seafood restaurants right on the ocean, nice resorts like Centara and Pullman, a number of new, nice boutique hotels, several beautiful new condos, including Zire, Riviera, Wong Amat Tower, The Palm, and Baan Plai Haad, Terminal 21 nearby, and a very safe area with people out and about all the time.  Lots of vacationing families.  

[simoh1490]

19 minutes ago, newnative said:

Check out Wong Amat sometime.  Great seafood restaurants right on the ocean, nice resorts like Centara and Pullman, a number of new, nice boutique hotels, several beautiful new condos, including Zire, Riviera, Wong Amat Tower, The Palm, and Baan Plai Haad, Terminal 21 nearby, and a very safe area with people out and about all the time.  Lots of vacationing families.  

A nice area, we stayed there when we visited Pattaya the last time, very pleasant and only a few minutes from town.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, fanjita said:

With all due respect the 'resort' has as much in common with Patts as it has the moon.  

With all due respect, the 'resort' has as much in common with the Patts I know as it has the moon.  

 

There, I corrected your post for you, no charge!

[QPRFC]

Please everybody stop worrying!!

All the Chinese are 'safe' and sound here in Chiang Mai.....a huge influx on top of the already "too many" have come for Loy Krathong this past week or two.

I'm even considering changing from my Thai language school to a Chinese language school so that I can communicate better with the masses! lol

[Rimmer]

Off topic removed, topic is about:

tourism numbers in Pattaya

 

[morrobay]

On 11/19/2018 at 4:26 PM, simoh1490 said:

 

 

Nothing but anecdotal data based on a single view, we can't continue this exchange because you are doing nothing other than defending your personal view of Pattaya, why don't you move if you dislike it so much. Out.

Is your position here that Chinese numbers in Pattaya are not decreasing? Any way Beach rd 4, 6 months ago had hundreds of tour buses lined up front to back from soi2 down to Pattaya klang full of Chinese for speedboat beach boarding in 8 to 10 am hours. I pass by there almost everyday. In particular this last Sunday, Monday and Tuesday I made a point of being there and observing that area in front of Hard Rock, at those hours. There are few tour buses and Chinese . Still some but about 20% of the previous. Actually there are almost equal numbers of Indians. Could they be boarding big boats at Bali Hi? If so the speedboats are out a lot of business along with beach vendors I haven't seen any  decrease in Naklua. And some small Chinese restaurants are opening. So you live in CM and call Pattaya residents observations "anecdotal " ??

 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, morrobay said:

Is your position here that Chinese numbers in Pattaya are not decreasing? Any way Beach rd 4, 6 months ago had hundreds of tour buses lined up front to back from soi2 down to Pattaya klang full of Chinese for speedboat beach boarding in 8 to 10 am hours. I pass by there almost everyday. In particular this last Sunday, Monday and Tuesday I made a point of being there and observing that area in front of Hard Rock, at those hours. There are few tour buses and Chinese . Still some but about 20% of the previous. Actually there are almost equal numbers of Indians. Could they be boarding big boats at Bali Hi? If so the speedboats are out a lot of business along with beach vendors I haven't seen any  decrease in Naklua. And some small Chinese restaurants are opening. So you live in CM and call Pattaya residents observations "anecdotal " ??

 

My position, very firmly, is that any downturn in Chinese tourism is as a result of Yuan depreciation, not the things that are alledgedly wrong with Pattaya that we're supposed to believe the tourists noticed all of a sudden fairly recently - the currency issue is the same reason the Russian tourists stop visiting in 2015!

 

I further believe that any downturn has hit the mass market or organised tour groups rather than travel by FIT's, you know, the kind that board the boats in front of Hard Rock and ride tour buses around town! 

 

Whether or not Chinese tourists are in decline over recent weeks is unclear since I don't live there. I do know however that the (Chinese) trend in Chiang Mai on this point is from low cost mass market tourism to FIT style tourism.

[pattayadude]

On 11/19/2018 at 8:40 PM, newnative said:

As I said, the things you mentioned are of far more interest to residents and likely wouldn't be deciding factors for tourists.

Maybe so, however Kim J's laundry list of "the dirty dozen" mentioned above would definitely be my deciding factor to cut  my vacation shorter than planned and head on elsewhere.

Furthermore, after a year of hard work and sweat, no tourist wants to encounter rodents and mounds of smelly trash during their leisure walk at night along the beach in any vacation spot.

[simoh1490]

1 hour ago, Kim J said:

Russians never "stopped" visiting Pattaya, but their already declining numbers greatly reduced during their currency crash in 2014 / 2015. Just as the numbers of Chinese are doing at the moment. It is not "unclear" it is an absolute fact for all that are actually in Pattaya to see with their own eyes.

Yes currency issues have again most likely accelerated this reduction, as happened with the Russians. But there are also other underlying factors. Only today there is yet another thread about prostitutes operating on the promenade damaging the good image of the city. Those are the words and actions of the Pattaya authorities, not tourists, expats or Pattaya bashers or what ever else you choose to call them.

I'm tired of reading your same nonsense over and over again, you just elevated yourself to my ignore list.

[newnative]

20 minutes ago, pattayadude said:

Maybe so, however Kim J's laundry list of "the dirty dozen" mentioned above would definitely be my deciding factor to cut  my vacation shorter than planned and head on elsewhere.

Furthermore, after a year of hard work and sweat, no tourist wants to encounter rodents and mounds of smelly trash during their leisure walk at night along the beach in any vacation spot.

    "Honey, pack the bags!  I had trouble crossing the street and some of the sidewalks are blocked!  We're leaving early!"  I doubt the typical tourist would cut his likely 1 or 2 week stay short due to corruption, bad traffic, anti-social behavior, police harassment, and the rest of the not-too-major things on Kim's list.  I live right on the beach in Wong Amat.  Have never seen a rat or smelly trash.  Doesn't mean they aren't there in some areas but, again, this is likely something that would begin to irritate with time, not after just a week or two.  

     When I think back to my first year in Pattaya, nothing really bothered me yet; I was too busy getting to know and enjoy a new place with lots to discover.  The irritation with poor sidewalks, traffic jams, etc. came much later.  But, I haven't packed my bags, either, as the pros outweigh the cons for me.

[newnative]

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

My position, very firmly, is that any downturn in Chinese tourism is as a result of Yuan depreciation, not the things that are alledgedly wrong with Pattaya that we're supposed to believe the tourists noticed all of a sudden fairly recently - the currency issue is the same reason the Russian tourists stop visiting in 2015!

 

I further believe that any downturn has hit the mass market or organised tour groups rather than travel by FIT's, you know, the kind that board the boats in front of Hard Rock and ride tour buses around town! 

 

Whether or not Chinese tourists are in decline over recent weeks is unclear since I don't live there. I do know however that the (Chinese) trend in Chiang Mai on this point is from low cost mass market tourism to FIT style tourism.

   So true!  It's ludicrous to blame the downturn in Chinese tourism in Pattaya on a laundry list of things that Pattaya has always had and which never deterred tourists before.  Most of the items on the list can readily be found in any big city.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, Kim J said:

You seem to be missing the whole point, and seem to be posting from the perspective of a single male. Yes Pattaya has always had the same issues, and that is exactly the problem. In the past traditionally tourists to Pattaya were virtually all single Western males, here predominantly for the bars, girls and nightlife, and were happy with the place as it was. However over more recent years Pattaya has been promoting itself to a different market, mainly families from First Russia but now predominantly other Asian countries. When a family go's to a seaside resort, they expect different things to a single male sex tourist. But despite the change in direction, Pattaya city has not developed it's infrastructure accordingly. A clean beach and promenade would be a good place to start don't you think?

Yes clearly the economy has had a significant impact, but if you think that is the only reason ask yourself why tourist numbers to Indonesia from China have increased significantly this year whilst here in Thailand they are continually falling? A Thai TV news article only today stated that numbers are down around 60% to what they were this time last year.

    I'm partnered--never go to Walking Street, Soi 6, or the like.  Which makes my point--you can visit or live in Pattaya and have a very nice time away from those areas--which make up a very small part of greater Pattaya.  

    You mentioned that you talked to some tourists and the things on your list were some of their dislikes.  Well, some are mine, too--including stray dogs.  Doesn't mean they would spoil a vacation here or prevent me from living here full-time, as I do.  By the way, did they have any likes? Did you even ask them?  I have many.  Certainly there are things that need improvement but I doubt they are the cause for a drop in Chinese tourists.  

[fanjita]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:13 PM, webfact said:

Where have all the Chinese gone?

Unfortunately, a significant number of them drowned and the rest got wind of it and decided bugger this for a game of soldiers, we'll go somewhere safer.  

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, Kim J said:

Many of the family tourist I spoke to on this topic were Russian's I met them on a dive boat where I used to go on a very frequent basis. They told me of brochures depicting immaculate beaches, pristine coral reefs etc etc. Many were first time travelers, and virtually all were on Package holidays. Yes they were stuck with what they had, yes they intended to make the most of it, but without exception all were most disappointed with the diving in particular and Pattaya as a whole and many said they would not return here.

Clearly these people would have gone back to their country and told others of their experiences, eventually word gets around and that has to have an effect on tourism to Pattaya. It will now be renowned in Russia for it's infamous nightlife, as it has been in the West for decades. I would also say the same may apply to Chinese tourists currently, clearly this is not the only reason but has to be a significant factor.

Just imagine for example if you had children with you on your holiday, decided to take an evening stroll along the promenade prior to going for a meal, and you can constantly see female and transsexual prostitutes soliciting tourists. That would not bother me, it would not bother Mrs Kim, we would probably find it all amusing, but most certainly neither of us would want our daughter to see it. Yes we live near Pattaya, yes as you say the nonsense is easily avoided, but living and being on holiday are two very different things, and in it's current state Pattaya in my mind doesn't even come close to being suitable for a family holiday.

How can any place without sidewalks , pedestrian crossings and zebra’s be suitable for family with small kids????.

 

Not to mention no public parks or kids playgrounds 

[fanjita]

4 minutes ago, Kim J said:

Yes we live near Pattaya, yes as you say the nonsense is easily avoided, but living and being on holiday are two very different things, and in it's current state Pattaya in my mind doesn't even come close to being suitable for a family holiday.

Hence why the resorts are doing very nicely.

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, BestB said:

How can any place without sidewalks , pedestrian crossings and zebra’s be suitable for family with small kids????.

 

Not to mention no public parks or kids playgrounds 

Never been to Pattaya eh?  Too bad. 

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Never been to Pattaya eh?  Too bad. 

Why do not you tell me about it from your extensive knowledge and experience 

[fanjita]

5 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

I'm tired of reading your same nonsense over and over again, you just elevated yourself to my ignore list.

Not sure why you've come to this extreme conclusion and maybe could reconsider, simoh1490.  I find Kim J articulate and entirely inoffensive.  

 

If he was a jerk then I would agree with you.  Up to you.  

 

What's not to like about a North Korean despot?

[BestB]

46 minutes ago, Kim J said:

Yes, you seem to get my point where many are failing to do so. I am not being critical of Pattaya, it is what it is. I am fully aware of what it is and accept that. For single people, even some couples, yes fine. But for a family, no way.

Now with the internet and so much information out there for people to see, they can no longer hide behind the glossy brochures which misrepresent the place. Word get's around very quickly.

One has to be brain dead not to get your point????.

 

Authorities decided it should be family friendly sea side resort , no one else thinks so.

 

yeah they move prostitutes around and build more shopping malls , but for some reason fail to understand Thailand is not Paris or Milan when it comes to shopping and beaches are not Niece.

 

Family with kids needs facilities , safety and infrastructure which Thailand lacks all around. 

 

Then of course lack of English does not help.

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, BestB said:

One has to be brain dead not to get your point????.

 

Authorities decided it should be family friendly sea side resort , no one else thinks so.

 

yeah they move prostitutes around and build more shopping malls , but for some reason fail to understand Thailand is not Paris or Milan when it comes to shopping and beaches are not Niece.

 

Family with kids needs facilities , safety and infrastructure which Thailand lacks all around. 

 

Then of course lack of English does not help.

Never been to Pattaya eh?

[BestB]

37 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Never been to Pattaya eh?

Still waiting for you to educate me how public park and paid nonuch garden is one of the same or kids pkayground equates to paid waterpark 

 

fire away????

[balo]

Many of the family tourist I spoke to on this topic were Russian's I met them on a dive boat where I used to go on a very frequent basis. They told me of brochures depicting immaculate beaches, pristine coral reefs etc etc. Many were first time travelers, and virtually all were on Package holidays.

And I'm surprised you managed to communicate with them at all. 95% of them on package holiday do not speak a word of English. I smell BS.

[newnative]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

How can any place without sidewalks , pedestrian crossings and zebra’s be suitable for family with small kids????.

 

Not to mention no public parks or kids playgrounds 

    Just for reference Pattaya does have a public park near the Big Buddha and another in Naklua near the beach.  I think both have children's play areas.  Most major roads have sidewalks with crossing areas.  Beach Road has working pedestrian crossing lights. Traffic seems to be doing a little better job of stopping but it's still pedestrian beware--true for most parts of Thailand. 

[BestB]

39 minutes ago, newnative said:

    Just for reference Pattaya does have a public park near the Big Buddha and another in Naklua near the beach.  I think both have children's play areas.  Most major roads have sidewalks with crossing areas.  Beach Road has working pedestrian crossing lights. Traffic seems to be doing a little better job of stopping but it's still pedestrian beware--true for most parts of Thailand. 

These are not parks ,check out centennial park in Sydney or Central Park in New York , even queen sirikit in bkk . Pedestrian crossings where cars do not stop, side walks where bikes ride , including cops.

 

yeap, next ????