Frustration at Immigration Office regarding income affidavit policy

[evadgib]

43 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Have you ever thought of the possibility that a lot more married expats will probably start going through the 400.000 Bt in the bank route, and that is going to give the Immigration officers a lot more work, and that is the last thing they will want.

When they finally decide what to do, it will be whatever gives them the least work, as long as it does not make things any easier for us.

PR is the way ahead, but TiT!

[roquefort]

7 hours ago, joeyg said:

I remember the first time I got my Embassy letter in Bangkok 4 years ago.  I had all my bank/brokerage statements etc.  the guy at the embassy said what are you giving me this for.  I said don't you have to see my financial status.  He said no we don't want this your just swear you meet the requirements.

 

I was quite surprised at the time.  However anyone can "doctor up" documents I suppose.  What would they have to to do contact my bank I guess?

The British Embassy always asked for proof of my pension income and I had to send them the same statements every year. It doesn't make sense that they are now saying they can't verify income, because that is exactly what they did.

[Banana7]

1 hour ago, KhunFred said:

Does Thai Immigration not understand the nature of "PENSION INCOME"??  It is for life, usually in monthly payments. This is not rocket science. It has been going on for many years. Also very strange that a farang married to a Thai only has to show 40 thousand baht a month, rather than 65 thousand. My Social Security payment alone is more than 40 thousand. They appear to be making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Most pensions are for life but pension plans have gone bankrupt and pensions can be reduced, especially private company pension plans. Also annuities can cease, the payer can go bankrupt.

 

Pensions in USA and Canada don't need to be fully funded at all times. In many pension plans, the Company's portion of payments can be delayed, and may never be paid into the plan, if the company runs into financial problems, resulting in reduced or no pensions. Also, if company A takes over company B, the pensioners from company B may get screwed. If your previous employer becomes insolvent, your pension may cease.

 

Even State/country pension can be reduced like the Greeks found-out. Greek state pensions were reduced 40-50%.

 

Lots of people have been screwed out of their pensions!

 

Edited November 18, 2018 by Banana7

[Issanjohn]

13 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

I don't think that's an accurate representation of the situation.

 

I've been following the rules with an OzEmbassy letter the last 2 years since I arrived to live permanently in Thailand. But now - for whatever reason, good or bad - that's no longer going to work for next October when my next renewal falls due.

 

So NOW I have to prepare for all future possibilities which, in the Thai way of doing things, may become clear only at the last minute or remain vague, ambiguous & changeable at all times ... It's called self-protection. So NOW I am starting bi-monthly transfers of funds to my Thai bank account and preparing, at least mentally for - around May next year - selling shares in Oz to have 800K฿ to lodge (as worst case - but it would also function as a partial health self-insurance fund ie one can always look on the bright side ...).

No seriously Thai law hasn’t changed they are just trying to more strictly verify our income is all.  And I plan on transferring probably half of my monthly pension payments or at least the minimum monthly income requirement into a Thai bank account every month starting either next payday or in January.  Obviously there’s not been any official guidance yet but they will probably want to see Income being transferred into a Thai bank account every month from our home countries or the lump sum option.  It’s not a change in the law it’s just simply a change in the method in which they verify our income, and yes I get it they haven’t told us yet how they will want to verify our income after the income affidavits totally go away later on next year.  But I’m sure it’ll all get figured out.  What it appears to be all about is getting rid of people living here illegally.  Those of us following Thai immigration laws should be fine in fact at least it’ll save us a trip to the embassy in Bangkok next time and the $50 dollars it costs for the income letter.  You’ll see it’ll work out.  

[DJ54]

10 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

income letter until the end of the year and use it for up to 6 months.

Up until this statement there have been no indications that TI will stop accepting letters after 1 Jan.

US Embassy website states valid for 6 months after issue. 3rd paragraph of link. Also on picture underlined in red.

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/faq_income_affidavit.pdf 

 

[Number 6]

1 minute ago, Issanjohn said:

Or 40,000 baht a month for marriage visas and 65,000 baht a month for retirement visas.  

This is gone.

 

There is evidently no clear method of producing documentation, at least at this juncture. Again, the police will accept the letter, but they are no longer being produced for all intents and purposes.

 

You'd really have to be a total chancer to rock up with a stack of complicated documents and yeah, it might work this year and it might save you until the police through this lot a lifeline.

 

But this is Thailand, land of lazy bureaucrats. IMO solution will always be money in the bank.

 

Single guy in Pattaya? Have a go. Have your life invested here? Maybe you should start playing the long game, you've already stumbled once.

 

I must say, I've always foreseen this. I'm late 50s and have 1m in bank. I'm on a marriage visa.

 

I am so not shocked by these events the BTS breaking down would be more of an eyebrow raiser.

 

The fact is...many just have to go because they don't have the money and never did. Even with a pension of 40k generating 25k income monthly is a bit of dosh from equities. Perhaps a home but then you have expenses and that assumes you own a 12m thb outright. Then there's taxes, maintenance, etc.

 

800k is the favor. Don't look for more.

 

[pontious]

2 minutes ago, roquefort said:

It doesn't make sense that they are now saying they can't verify income, because that is exactly what they did.

They did not verify - they said you had provided documents that said you receive xyz pounds.

[Issanjohn]

14 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

I am glad that you were lucky.

 

However you are just one person using one Immigration office. It is well know that the policy is laid down by the central Immigration offices and sent out to all regional offices where they may adhere to the central ruling and then add various extra bits of their own.

 

IMHO what is really needed is a complete set of rules for ALL the extensions that MUST be adhered to by ALL Immigration offices, whether it be 800,000 or 400,000 in the bank seasoned, 65,000 or 40,000 income per month, a combination of both.

 

They should specify where the money is deposited, single or joint bank account, Thailand or offshore, a letter from the bank manager or not, a letter from the embassy or not.

 

AFAIK Immigration have not changed their rules yet and until they do it is speculation.

 

I put my money on Ubonjoe who seems to be the guy on TVF who has the greatest knowledge around here. He has suggested that we wait a while and see what happens and I agree with him.

I agree with Joe as well because he relies on facts and I’ve also received a lot of good information from him.  As far as how immigration wants to verify our income in the future I guess we’ll have to wait and see.  Also the information I received from my local immigration office was their internal policy which actually came directly from immigration headquarters so technically all the immigration offices are already supposed to be doing the same thing already and hopefully they’ll get there soon.  That’s why the US Embassy made the same statement because that came from Thai Immigration Bureau Officials which is so far the only guidance we have but that’s just for the income affidavits throughout the next six months.  

Edited November 18, 2018 by Issanjohn

[billd766]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

to say just show us the 65K+ deposited as foreign transaction each month in your passbook account and we do not want to look at pension or other source documents authenticated or otherwise.

That would be a great plan but will Thai Immigration work with it?

[luckyluke]

3 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

This is gone.

Not yet.

No any official amendments to the Thai immigration directives, as per today. 

 

[Issanjohn]

8 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

This is gone.

 

There is evidently no clear method of producing documentation, at least at this juncture. Again, the police will accept the letter, but they are no longer being produced for all intents and purposes.

 

You'd really have to be a total chancer to rock up with a stack of complicated documents and yeah, it might work this year and it might save you until the police through this lot a lifeline.

 

But this is Thailand, land of lazy bureaucrats. IMO solution will always be money in the bank.

 

Single guy in Pattaya? Have a go. Have your life invested here? Maybe you should start playing the long game, you've already stumbled once.

 

I must say, I've always foreseen this. I'm late 50s and have 1m in bank. I'm on a marriage visa.

 

I am so not shocked by these events the BTS breaking down would be more of an eyebrow raiser.

 

The fact is...many just have to go because they don't have the money and never did. Even with a pension of 40k generating 25k income monthly is a bit of dosh from equities. Perhaps a home but then you have expenses and that assumes you own a 12m thb outright. Then there's taxes, maintenance, etc.

 

800k is the favor. Don't look for more.

 

No actually it’s not gone who told you that?  

[joebrown]

1 hour ago, Banana7 said:

You should be ok providing you can find a competent authority (CA), acceptable to Immigration, to authentic documents stating your monthly income from your pensions and lifetime annuity for the forthcoming year.

 

Immigration considers your Embassy to be a CA. If your Embassy no longer will do it, you'll need to find another CA.

 

I believe the Canadian embassy will continue to act as a CA for Canadians. They can probably access Canadian federal government info, such as personal income tax assessments, which identify pension income, and can authenticate annuity certificates.

Several Immigration Offices also consider 'Pay me 15,000bht" Visa Agents to be competent authorities (CAs)!!

[Jingthing]

7 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

No actually it’s not gone who told you that?  

Head of Jomtien immigration according to multiple reports. Will not support income applications next year PERIOD or even letters from before (last allowed date of letter, December 12). Believe it or not. In any case, things can change either way. Stay tuned.

[jimn]

23 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

US Embassy website states valid for 6 months after issue. 3rd paragraph of link. Also on picture underlined in red.

 

https://th.usembassy.gov/wp-content/uploads/sites/90/faq_income_affidavit.pdf 

 

Wow thanks for this "new information"

[Issanjohn]

21 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

This is gone.

 

There is evidently no clear method of producing documentation, at least at this juncture. Again, the police will accept the letter, but they are no longer being produced for all intents and purposes.

 

You'd really have to be a total chancer to rock up with a stack of complicated documents and yeah, it might work this year and it might save you until the police through this lot a lifeline.

 

But this is Thailand, land of lazy bureaucrats. IMO solution will always be money in the bank.

 

Single guy in Pattaya? Have a go. Have your life invested here? Maybe you should start playing the long game, you've already stumbled once.

 

I must say, I've always foreseen this. I'm late 50s and have 1m in bank. I'm on a marriage visa.

 

I am so not shocked by these events the BTS breaking down would be more of an eyebrow raiser.

 

The fact is...many just have to go because they don't have the money and never did. Even with a pension of 40k generating 25k income monthly is a bit of dosh from equities. Perhaps a home but then you have expenses and that assumes you own a 12m thb outright. Then there's taxes, maintenance, etc.

 

800k is the favor. Don't look for more.

 

Well actually I’m not rich like you but I make more than double the minimum monthly income requirement for both visas 40,000 or 65,000.  I finally just read your entire message and you’re just guessing that it’s “gone”.  Based on what facts?  According to my local immigration office they want to see monthly income or money in the bank.  Where are you getting this information from?  Unless you can offer some facts it just sounds like more misinformation to me and this one sounds like quite a whopper.  

[Number 6]

11 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

No actually it’s not gone who told you that?  

 

12 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

Not yet.

No any official amendments to the Thai immigration directives, as per today. 

 

 

And the affadavit and documents will be filed how?

 

The IO initially sifting through ten pages of sketchy documents. Adding, subtracting...just manages to figure out you might have cleared the threshold assuming the paperwork is not forged in the first place. Gets passed on to some clerk with the math abilities of a US sixth grader.

 

Yeah, that's gonna work real well.

 

It may not be de jure over but de facto you've both feet in the grave.

 

Good luck. It's so evident to me many, even most never had the income stream.

[Number 6]

3 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

Well actually I’m not rich like you but I make more than double the minimum monthly income requirement for both visas 40,000 or 65,000.  I finally just read your entire message and you’re just guessing that it’s “gone”.  Based on what facts?  According to my local immigration office they want to see monthly income or money in the bank.  Where are you getting this information from?  Unless you can offer some facts it just sounds like more misinformation to me and this one sounds like quite a whopper.  

Well you're all set then.

 

Relax.

 

[Spidey]

10 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Head of Jomtien immigration according to multiple reports. Will not support income applications next year PERIOD or even letters from before (last allowed date of letter, December 12). Believe it or not. In any case, things can change either way. Stay tuned.

Believe it or not? I choose not.

[xylophone]

6 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Believe it or not? I choose not.

Please excuse me asking this here but there are so many threads on this topic, so I need some help...……..or should I say a Norwegian friend here does. He has just returned from a holiday and was unaware of this income letters situation and almost doesn't believe it.

 

He is an old guy, hence me trying to help. So is anyone aware if the Norwegian Embassy is about to stop issuing the income letters??

 

Thanks in advance.

[Issanjohn]

6 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

Well you're all set then.

 

Relax.

 

Yeah well I just looked it up for myself on the immigration website and I asked a very reliable source who’s been here for more than a decade and I confirmed that you are just full of it.  Just more misinformation as I figured it was, your post wasn’t even very intelligible.  I’m guessing that you’ve probably been drinking by the way you wrote it.  No one except you is even trying to spread that rumor.  

 

This is Thai Immigration Law copied and pasted in English:

 

Marriage Visa: A minimum monthly income requirement of 40,000 thousand baht minimum monthly income or 400,000 baht a month in the bank lump sum option for marriage visas 

 

Retirement Visas: A minimum monthly income requirement of 65,000 thousand baht monthly income or 800,000 thousand baht a month in the bank lump sum option.  

 

It hasn't changed it’s just people like you who just like to spread misinformation and get people worked up LMAO ????.  

 

 

[crazyk]

The embassies are being lazy as usual & know they can get away with it,the thai government asked the embassies to provide more information on the individuals, the British embassy in Bangkok must be the worst of the lot,non of the staff speak good english (but I don't speak fluent thai but then again I'm not working in a Thai embassy or whatever )try making an appointment for a new passport on their website it's impossible & I only had 3 weeks left on me visa extension & in pigeon english said it would take up to 5 weeks to sort it,so I went to Kuala Lumpur & went on the website & clicked on I needed a reference letter &  remarked I needed to renew me passport & I couldn't get through to the appropriate link,they messaged me back with a choice of appointments,I chose 10.30 Monday morning, I finally found it got there 7.30 but they start 8.00,the main office is 27th floor but  of a plush hotel but have a little counter in the lobby,the Malaysian lady that works it is very polite,understanding & speaks fluent english,when I get to the embassy office they where great & helpfull,everything sorted in 30 mins,still had to post my forms & passport myself with ups up the road but they was very helpful unlike the cnts in bangkok

[Issanjohn]

51 minutes ago, Number 6 said:

This is gone.

 

There is evidently no clear method of producing documentation, at least at this juncture. Again, the police will accept the letter, but they are no longer being produced for all intents and purposes.

 

You'd really have to be a total chancer to rock up with a stack of complicated documents and yeah, it might work this year and it might save you until the police through this lot a lifeline.

 

But this is Thailand, land of lazy bureaucrats. IMO solution will always be money in the bank.

 

Single guy in Pattaya? Have a go. Have your life invested here? Maybe you should start playing the long game, you've already stumbled once.

 

I must say, I've always foreseen this. I'm late 50s and have 1m in bank. I'm on a marriage visa.

 

I am so not shocked by these events the BTS breaking down would be more of an eyebrow raiser.

 

The fact is...many just have to go because they don't have the money and never did. Even with a pension of 40k generating 25k income monthly is a bit of dosh from equities. Perhaps a home but then you have expenses and that assumes you own a 12m thb outright. Then there's taxes, maintenance, etc.

 

800k is the favor. Don't look for more.

 

Yeah I just got some background info on you from a friend on here.  You’re probably not rich and you don’t have the monthly income either and probably not enough for the lump sum option either.  You can’t use the monthly income option so you are jealous of the rest of us who can ????????????.  I try to treat everyone in life and on Internet forums with respect but just because YOU might have a problem with the income verification doesn’t mean you should start spreading false misinformation.  There’s enough of that going around as it is.  That’s why I usually don’t read all of these posts except from one person who actually knows what he’s talking about.  Now I’m just laughing at you dude???????????????????????????? no one is taking you seriously.  I figured you were full of it I was right.  

[evadgib]

14 minutes ago, crazyk said:

The embassies are being lazy as usual & know they can get away with it,the thai government asked the embassies to provide more information on the individuals, the British embassy in Bangkok must be the worst of the lot,non of the staff speak good english (but I don't speak fluent thai but then again I'm not working in a Thai embassy or whatever )try making an appointment for a new passport on their website it's impossible & I only had 3 weeks left on me visa extension & in pigeon english said it would take up to 5 weeks to sort it,so I went to Kuala Lumpur & went on the website & clicked on I needed a reference letter &  remarked I needed to renew me passport & I couldn't get through to the appropriate link,they messaged me back with a choice of appointments,I chose 10.30 Monday morning, I finally found it got there 7.30 but they start 8.00,the main office is 27th floor but  of a plush hotel but have a little counter in the lobby,the Malaysian lady that works it is very polite,understanding & speaks fluent english,when I get to the embassy office they where great & helpfull,everything sorted in 30 mins,still had to post my forms & passport myself with ups up the road but they was very helpful unlike the cnts in bangkok

Bad admin on your part is no one's fault but your own.

[Pattaya46]

40 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Head of Jomtien immigration according to multiple reports. Will not support income applications next year PERIOD or even letters from before (last allowed date of letter, December 12). Believe it or not. In any case, things can change either way. Stay tuned.

You insist with that ... Why? 

99% chance at least that it's false.

The "multiple reports" on this forum have all be written by YOU... 

[Neeranam]

I have a friend of your age in exactly the same boat as you, he says he can't show 400k in the bank.

I told his wife to start by selling the gold she wears around her neck, worth 100k, and just one of the 10 rai of land her husband bought for her over the years. 

I really don't think 400k is beyond most couples, if the wife was less selfish.

Edited November 18, 2018 by Neeranam

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

You insist with that ... Why? 

99% chance at least that it's false.

The "multiple reports" on this forum have all be written by YOU... 

I already addressed the source the first time I mentioned it. I trust the source. I'm not going to rehash that. I'm sharing it so that more people here about it and they can decide for themselves to give any credibility to it. 

In my case, I've been saying for a long time now -- prepare for a BANK method if you can! Way too much uncertainty about income methods going forward and that's putting it mildly. 

[Pattaya46]

24 minutes ago, xylophone said:

// So is anyone aware if the Norwegian Embassy is about to stop issuing the income letters??

I don't think anyone talk about Norway here,

but for sure not in the list of Embassies known to stop : UK, US, AU, DK

 

To know more, you can consult their website

https://www.norway.no/en/thailand/

or contact their Embassy

[Russell17au]

26 minutes ago, xylophone said:

Please excuse me asking this here but there are so many threads on this topic, so I need some help...……..or should I say a Norwegian friend here does. He has just returned from a holiday and was unaware of this income letters situation and almost doesn't believe it.

 

He is an old guy, hence me trying to help. So is anyone aware if the Norwegian Embassy is about to stop issuing the income letters??

 

Thanks in advance.

At the moment the Norwegian Embassy is still issuing the income letters but that could change at any time and without notice as did the Denmark Embassy

[crazyk]

1 hour ago, Issanjohn said:

Yeah I just got some background info on you from a friend on here.  You’re probably not rich and you don’t have the monthly income either and probably not enough for the lump sum option either.  You can’t use the monthly income option so you are jealous of the rest of us who can ????????????.  I try to treat everyone in life and on Internet forums with respect but just because YOU might have a problem with the income verification doesn’t mean you should start spreading false misinformation.  There’s enough of that going around as it is.  That’s why I usually don’t read all of these posts except from one person who actually knows what he’s talking about.  Now I’m just laughing at you dude???????????????????????????? no one is taking you seriously.  I figured you were full of it I was right.  

You seem like a complete tossa,a lot of people are in the same boat,they may never had the chance for a private pension or couldn't afford it as they had a family to support,you come across as a self centred no family <deleted>

[Longcut]

8 hours ago, ebean001 said:

Just eliminate the income requirement is the best solution. Next, hire me to create the letter. I will actually require bank statements.

The USA was making $50 doing nothing. That does not sound like the USA would stop this on their own. $50 and I have to make out the form, show a valid passport, and say YES. Hummm. I can do that and even more

Do you really think the US is worried about your $50.00?

 Give me a break.

 

The financial position of the United States includes assets of at least $269.6 trillion(1576% of GDP) and debts of $145.8 trillion(852% of GDP) to produce a net worth of at least $123.8 trillion