robblok Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 14 hours ago, Senseo said: It was under the class of Benzodiazepines. I can't remember exactly which medication it was. I was sleeping so bad and had a severe case of RLS (Restless Leg Syndrome). One of the side effects of the medication is that i would have an increased appetite and that i should be careful. The doctor didn't warn me about the side effects. Got so pissed. From now on, i always ask if i should know anything about a medication. I also always read the paper inside the package just to make sure. And thanks will look it up! Actually that and sleeping problems put a a few too many kilos to my weight last year. Now getting rid of it. Probably an other two months. I am lucky that I know how to lose weight and have a nice gym to help me. Not so much for the weight loss but for motivation. I just seem to think more about my food when I workout so its easier to stick to a diet as changes are visible faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiver Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 17 hours ago, madmen said: On 1/24/2019 at 2:39 AM, Senseo said: I wonder if a skinny man that became fat due to medication, could develop into having abnormally high biological hunger stimulating hormones. I hope not. I came from 63kg to 78kg in a very short amount of time. I got a few marks similar to some women have that gave birth due to rapid expansion of the stomach. (I'm a guy). I have been skinny my entire life until last year. I stopped the medication a few months ago but this fat doesn't want to go away. All this fat stays around my stomach, like a beer belly. In the past i could eat anything i want. I could eat all the lovely sugary foods without gaining one pound without exercise. Even though i don't eat much now, i don't seem to lose weight.. I don't lose any pounds with cutting sugary foods in my diet. It only stays stable.. I really feel for fat people now. It's a huge struggle. Fat people know they're fat. At least me and it annoys the shit out of me every day. Getting older sucks. I could fast for 5 days and actually not shift a single gram. Leptin (and it's counterpart Ghrelin) are the satiety and hunger hormones. I have a friend that had a kidney removed, and ever since then he piled on weight, and even severe caloric restriction won't budge any fat, not even temporarily. He's convinced there's a connection. There is a device called the "Modius" which claims to cause weight loss by impulses to the brain. It is fairly expensive, and doesn't seem so compelling to me, but it does suggest there's a signalling event there too. If I were trying to lose weight via calories, I'd either go Keto, or stop eating entirely (tolerate the first couple of days of hunger) then not eat again until my body told me it was hungry, at which point I'd gently resume calories. That way you can speed metabolism and preserve lean mass. Calorie 'restriction' is poor science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Shiver said: Leptin (and it's counterpart Ghrelin) are the satiety and hunger hormones. I have a friend that had a kidney removed, and ever since then he piled on weight, and even severe caloric restriction won't budge any fat, not even temporarily. He's convinced there's a connection. There is a device called the "Modius" which claims to cause weight loss by impulses to the brain. It is fairly expensive, and doesn't seem so compelling to me, but it does suggest there's a signalling event there too. If I were trying to lose weight via calories, I'd either go Keto, or stop eating entirely (tolerate the first couple of days of hunger) then not eat again until my body told me it was hungry, at which point I'd gently resume calories. That way you can speed metabolism and preserve lean mass. Calorie 'restriction' is poor science. Calorie restriction is poor science.. (yet there is not a scientist who says it does not work because it works, however the body will adapt and adjust your metabolic rate) Yet you restrict your calories by Keto and or fasting. ???? Its actually a bad idea to fast for too long or go on crash diets as it will slow your metabolic rate down if maintained too long. Grelin and leptin have only something to do with hunger and feeling full not with the metabolic rate so they are NOT responsible for holding onto fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontoearth Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 4 hours ago, robblok said: Calorie restriction is poor science.. (yet there is not a scientist who says it does not work because it works, however the body will adapt and adjust your metabolic rate) Yet you restrict your calories by Keto and or fasting. ???? Its actually a bad idea to fast for too long or go on crash diets as it will slow your metabolic rate down if maintained too long. Grelin and leptin have only something to do with hunger and feeling full not with the metabolic rate so they are NOT responsible for holding onto fat. Most of the science says fasting does not slow metabolism. More and more coming in on that everyday. Some studies have shown up to a 20% increase in basic metabolism. And yes! It doesn't seem logical. That might be the way science teaches us new things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 34 minutes ago, dontoearth said: Most of the science says fasting does not slow metabolism. Less calories in, more calories out = less weight. This is science you can't argue with. I lost 5Kg in the past 6 weeks just by calorie counting. If you exercise 2,000 Calories in a day, and only eat 1,500 Calories, your metabolism isn't even a part of the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontoearth Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 minute ago, BritManToo said: Less calories in, more calories out = less weight. This is science you can't argue with. I lost 5Kg in the past 6 weeks just by calorie counting. Great. Good Luck keeping it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 47 minutes ago, dontoearth said: Most of the science says fasting does not slow metabolism. More and more coming in on that everyday. Some studies have shown up to a 20% increase in basic metabolism. And yes! It doesn't seem logical. That might be the way science teaches us new things. I was talking about a 5 day fast, that certainly does slow down the metabolic rate. The guy was not talking about short term. Its funny how people still seem to chase magic solutions. If there was a real magic solution it would have been proven in real studies where people are locked up during the study and all food is measured. So far non of that has ever surfaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 17 minutes ago, BritManToo said: Less calories in, more calories out = less weight. This is science you can't argue with. I lost 5Kg in the past 6 weeks just by calorie counting. If you exercise 2,000 Calories in a day, and only eat 1,500 Calories, your metabolism isn't even a part of the discussion. Yes metabolism is part of the discussion, it can slow down if you restrict your calories too long. This has been proven. But it has also been proven that if you eat less than what you burn you lose fat. Keto works.. because of caloric restrictions.. just like every other diet. Personally i just prefer to eat less and healthy and it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 5kgs makes no difference to your life. Just more loose clothing. If keeping it off stresses you out the stress will kill you before the fat does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 1:00 AM, robblok said: Yes metabolism is part of the discussion, it can slow down if you restrict your calories too long. This has been proven. But it has also been proven that if you eat less than what you burn you lose fat. Keto works.. because of caloric restrictions.. just like every other diet. Personally i just prefer to eat less and healthy and it works. Keto works cause your body burns more fat than otherwise. The body only burns fat after it is running low on glycogen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Concrete said: Keto works cause your body burns more fat than otherwise. The body only burns fat after it is running low on glycogen. Sorry keto has not been proven to work better than other stuff if calories kept the same. Calories in vs calories out still count even though keto die hards might think otherwise. I seen the research of fat loss where they compared keto studies with other ones and guess what almost no difference. So sorry to burst the keto bubble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, Concrete said: 5kgs makes no difference to your life. Just more loose clothing. If keeping it off stresses you out the stress will kill you before the fat does. 5 kg can be a totally different look, depends how fat you are to start with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 For the Keto die hards who think calories don't count .. just ingest 100 ml of MCT oil every day on top of what your eating now. Its just 900 calories in fat.. but as people say in keto land calories dont matter. Keep this up for 3 weeks and check your scales. That would settle the debate once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, robblok said: Sorry keto has not been proven to work better than other stuff if calories kept the same. Calories in vs calories out still count even though keto die hards might think otherwise. I seen the research of fat loss where they compared keto studies with other ones and guess what almost no difference. So sorry to burst the keto bubble. I don't agree with that. Keto diet makes calorie reduction more easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 https://hvmn.com/blog/keto-diet/do-calories-matter-on-a-keto-diet Keto wins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Concrete said: I don't agree with that. Keto diet makes calorie reduction more easy. Your just agreeing with me saying that its about calorie reduction. So calories do matter. For some people keto is good for others its not. Below a non bias report on keto. https://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/should-you-go-keto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, Concrete said: https://hvmn.com/blog/keto-diet/do-calories-matter-on-a-keto-diet Keto wins Funny that i found studies saying the opposite. So jury is still out on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Higher energy costs associated with high thermic effect of protein. Greater protein intake on the keto diet is more energetically costly. When carb intake is low, protein is used to make glucose via a process called gluconeogenesis. The energy cost for this is estimated to be ~ 400 to 600 calories/day from a simple diet change.13 Increased ability to burn fat. Keto-adaptation more than doubles the rate of fat burning compared to a high-carb diet.14 In addition, lower levels of insulin trigger fat burning, reduce fat storage, and increase lean mass.4,5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FracturedRabbit Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, robblok said: For the Keto die hards who think calories don't count .. just ingest 100 ml of MCT oil every day on top of what your eating now. Its just 900 calories in fat.. but as people say in keto land calories dont matter. Keep this up for 3 weeks and check your scales. That would settle the debate once and for all. I have never heard anyone doing keto saying calories don't count, of course they do. But when you're body has switched to burning fat rather than carbs, if you consume fewer calories then the body will take what it needs by consuming body fat. If you reduce calories while running on carbs, your metabolism slows down to compensate and the body doesn't switch to fat store consumption. There is another huge benefit of keto which is often not recognised outside of weight loss interests, drastically cutting your carb consumption addresses the problem of insulin resistance which is the cause of so many of today's chronic illnesses. I do keto, not for weight loss, but to tackle my atherosclerosis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, robblok said: Funny that i found studies saying the opposite. So jury is still out on that one. Science is clear. You burn more fat on Keto as the body needs it for energy. Try keto for 6 months then tell me otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/is-a-ketogenic-diet-really-more-effective-for-fat-loss here a good study shows keto NOT being more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, robblok said: https://breakingmuscle.com/healthy-eating/is-a-ketogenic-diet-really-more-effective-for-fat-loss here a good study shows keto NOT being more effective. Crappy 8 week study. Means nothing. Like I said do keto for 6 months then tell me Im wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 "Their study was conducted over eight weeks in a research facility" Ask people in the real world who did keto for 6 months. 8 weeks is a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, FracturedRabbit said: I have never heard anyone doing keto saying calories don't count, of course they do. But when you're body has switched to burning fat rather than carbs, if you consume fewer calories then the body will take what it needs by consuming body fat. If you reduce calories while running on carbs, your metabolism slows down to compensate and the body doesn't switch to fat store consumption. There is another huge benefit of keto which is often not recognised outside of weight loss interests, drastically cutting your carb consumption addresses the problem of insulin resistance which is the cause of so many of today's chronic illnesses. I do keto, not for weight loss, but to tackle my atherosclerosis. Not true read the study i just posted, problem is those in favor of keto will only quote studies that show keto works and ignore those that don't. They had an other study where they had the people locked up and fed them prepared food. They did keto and they did normal diet. Guess what.. no difference in the end. This was a good study as it was a study that was live in. Those are the best studies but the rarest as they are expensive. I have tried keto and it did not work for me, I have no doubt in my mind that it works for some people. But I am not fanatic enough to say that MY diet is the best unlike most keto fans who treat it like a religion. Again you don't seem to fall in that group. Insulin resistance is a problem that is why keto does work for some people who have abused their body for a long time. My reason not to do keto is clear you can't build muscle while doing keto as we need insulin for that. On my lifting days I eat quite a few carbs around my workout. The rest of the time i stay low carb. But I dont fear carbs if you have enough muscle there is no need to fear carbs if you stay active and normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Concrete said: "Their study was conducted over eight weeks in a research facility" Ask people in the real world who did keto for 6 months. 8 weeks is a joke. Typical keto fanatic, i said it before keto fanatics are similar to muslims. They take keto as the word of god. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 "A review of 13 randomized controlled trials (1,415 patients) found that people on the ketogenic diet lost significantly more weight than people on low-fat diets. They also kept the weight off for 12 months or more" A year vs 8 weeks. No contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, robblok said: Typical keto fanatic, i said it before keto fanatics are similar to muslims. They take keto as the word of god. 12 months vs 8 weeks. Keto wins. It's just science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 "have tried keto and it did not work for me" How long did you do it for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robblok Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, Concrete said: 12 months vs 8 weeks. Keto wins. It's just science. No the 8 weeks was in a metabolic ward.. come back if you find 12 months in a metabolic ward. Studies in metabolic wards with dexa scans win hand down as they are controlled. Your studies are not. Metabolic ward studies are the best there are and because they are so accurate they show no difference. Its not science its junk science if its not done properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Concrete Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, robblok said: Typical keto fanatic, i said it before keto fanatics are similar to muslims. They take keto as the word of god. Just because you believe the earth is flat doesn't make it so. Unless you have tried keto for 6 months or more you can't claim it doesnt work better cause results say it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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