melvinmelvin Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 leaving with no deal what so ever is not a good idea, that is asking for severe problems leaving without a trade deal - ok - if you so wish but there is a host of issues where formal deals are needed note that most crossings of the UK border - one way or the other are regulated by a EU based regulatory framework which is not there anymore come 29th late evening the future of uk families in eu needs a formal deal the future of eu families in uk needs a formal deal - not just political intentions marine - road - rail - air transport need a proper deal its not only a matter of flying BA in/out of EU but also a matter of using UK airports for EEA planes, there will no longer be qualified pilots and mechanics in the UK, can't do ground clearance of planes anymore unless a deal is made CAA will no longer be a recognized agency/control organ. leave without a trade deal if you fancy but there is a host of practical deals that need to be made for necessary activities to continue without disruption shouldn't be too difficult - but needs to be done no deal no deal Brexit is hardly wise --- and you really need to speed up the sorting of your WTO stuff, must establish your own trading profile/schedule faster than lightning, such efforts are not tricky as such but takes time because UK will be dealing with a lot of DIFFICULT countries can't continue to use the EU deals, maybe an extension could be asked for, doubtful though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 24 minutes ago, baboon said: I would disagree. The vote was 52 - 48. You can't trample on the wishes of either side, so where do you go from here? You compromise. I'll tell you where the UK will go from here. in the new year, May will propose another referendum. The choices; do you accept the deal on the table or do you wish to stay in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, owl sees all said: I'll tell you where the UK will go from here. in the new year, May will propose another referendum. The choices; do you accept the deal on the table or do you wish to stay in the EU. Unfortunately I think it is equally as likely that May will blunder and procrastinate us into a No Deal, Hard Brexit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 34 minutes ago, baboon said: Unfortunately I think it is equally as likely that May will blunder and procrastinate us into a No Deal, Hard Brexit. I hear you baboon, but keep in mind that May was (is?) a committed Remainer, and the Breiteers that she chose to lead negotiations were systematically outed. IMO she had no intention of letting the UK leave right from the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billd766 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 12 hours ago, nontabury said: You had better have a word with this guy. Could it be the same Guy Verhofstadt. That you so admire Nice one Cyril. I wonder what he has been drinking/taking? I need to know so that I don't take any by mistake. Perhaps it was Harpic that cleans right around the bends, which it seems to me, is where he is now. Clean round the bend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 9 minutes ago, owl sees all said: I hear you baboon, but keep in mind that May was (is?) a committed Remainer, and the Breiteers that she chose to lead negotiations were systematically outed. IMO she had no intention of letting the UK leave right from the start. I hope to God you will be on here in a few months telling me you told me so. I do NOT want to be proven right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 8 minutes ago, billd766 said: Nice one Cyril. I wonder what he has been drinking/taking? I need to know so that I don't take any by mistake. Perhaps it was Harpic that cleans right around the bends, which it seems to me, is where he is now. Clean round the bend. probably drinking HB, hjemmebrent - home burnt (Moonshine in Norwegian) I always have to look twice when SW talks about HB, ahh - hard brexit not moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I would disagree. The vote was 52 - 48. You can't trample on the wishes of either side, so where do you go from here? You compromise.Compromise? Nah. It's that sort of wishy washy half in, half out attitude, trying to please everyone, that has led to this mess. Had remain won by the same margin, we wouldn't be talking about soft remain, hard remain, or trampling on the wishes of the leave side. It was a binary vote. Whichever side won, for better or for worse, the country should have simply proceeded positively in that direction. Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 3 hours ago, rixalex said: Mommysboy said he thought the vote needed to be respected. Sadly he's one of the few remainers with the integrity on this forum to take that view. Neither revoking of article 50 "until we can get our act together" (read, "leaving the EU ain't never going to happen") or going with May's current deal, does respect the vote. Are you STILL going on about an advisory poll two years ago before anyone knew anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 2 minutes ago, Grouse said: Are you STILL going on about an advisory poll two years ago before anyone knew anything? It didn't stop you voting though did it ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 1 minute ago, evadgib said: It didn't stop you voting though did it ???? Correct. And I did not know anything like as much then as I know now One never knows what what doesn't know until one learns more. What point are you trying to make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 2 hours ago, owl sees all said: This is just trying to scare TVForum members. I say get the warships in the Med and assert our authority. Send a few shivers down the spins of the unelected EU bullies. The US would help us in this. Payback for Libya and Iraq. Sounds like.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Grouse said: What point are you trying to make? Parity re intelligence despite the constant drivel to the contrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Coming in Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 35 minutes ago, evadgib said: Parity re intelligence despite the constant drivel to the contrary. Intelligenceis not the issue. Education, knowledge accrued has everything to do with this issue. The 2016 referendum was not only advisory, the people had little knowledge at the time. I don't know about you but I have learnt a great deal. A referendum on what the CONs have achieved would be useful. You surely don't want a Corbyn government AND a no deal Brexit? I hope May decides to remain and calls a referendum to ratify her decision or otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Grouse said: Intelligenceis not the issue. Education, knowledge accrued has everything to do with this issue. The 2016 referendum was not only advisory, the people had little knowledge at the time. I don't know about you but I have learnt a great deal. A referendum on what the CONs have achieved would be useful. You surely don't want a Corbyn government AND a no deal Brexit? I hope May decides to remain and calls a referendum to ratify her decision or otherwise You are wrong. The 2016 referendum was not advisory. .........or was David Cameron fibbing. Listen.... and I mean go away and listen....to his Chatham House speech, then put your hand on your heart and state categorically that it said the referendum was advisory. This could be interesting test of intelligence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 7 minutes ago, Grouse said: You surely don't want a Corbyn government AND a no deal Brexit? I'd have no problem with the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talahtnut Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 35 minutes ago, Grouse said: Are you STILL going on about an advisory poll two years ago before anyone knew anything? Stop Grousing about, it was not advisory, it was a decisive vote, and most people knew at the time that the EU was as bent as a failed EU banana, ask the French, Italians, etc. The word 'could' in the topic headline betrays the nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 16 minutes ago, rixalex said: Compromise? Nah. It's that sort of wishy washy half in, half out attitude, trying to please everyone, that has led to this mess. Had remain won by the same margin, we wouldn't be talking about soft remain, hard remain, or trampling on the wishes of the leave side. It was a binary vote. Whichever side won, for better or for worse, the country should have simply proceeded positively in that direction. Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app A binary vote. And a bloody stupid one because of just that. Yes, you voted to leave. But staying in the EEA is not being in the EU. Staying in the Customs Union is not being in the EU. So the government can claim they delivered on what you voted for... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, baboon said: A binary vote. And a bloody stupid one because of just that. Yes, you voted to leave. But staying in the EEA is not being in the EU. Staying in the Customs Union is not being in the EU. So the government can claim they delivered on what you voted for... Yes, I would agree with that. ...... and if that is the ‘best’ exit that can be negotiated so be it, I will have (arguably) got what I voted for........... except, it is not ALL of what the Prime Minister said we were voting for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 1 minute ago, Jip99 said: except, it is not ALL of what the Prime Minister said we were voting for. Hey, more fool anyone who takes these toe-rags at their word... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 1 hour ago, Jip99 said: .........or was David Cameron fibbing. No, just got carried away making promises he couldn't keep. Theresa May said she could invoke Art 50 - was she fibbing. No, just got carried away making promises she couldn't keep, and she hasn't stopped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 3 hours ago, baboon said: Unfortunately I think it is equally as likely that May will blunder and procrastinate us into a No Deal, Hard Brexit. There is no such thing as 'No Deal', just a mish mash of panic led smaller deals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Brexit: The Abysmal Reality Of Becoming Poorer https://www.forbes.com/sites/randybrown/2018/12/10/brexit-the-abysmal-reality-of-becoming-poorer/ The Brexit drama has been an abysmal fractious saga. Polls show that U.K. voters more readily identify as either “Leave” or “Remain” more than they do their political party. That polarization seriously undermines democracy and may dominate politics for decades to come. At this point, May’s plan is pragmatic, and the fact that the extreme element on either side don’t like it implies she may have found a workable center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommysboy Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 17 hours ago, evadgib said: Whatever the deal, it has to be managed! This is just the Canada deal by different name, surely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommysboy Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 6 hours ago, rixalex said: Mommysboy said he thought the vote needed to be respected. Sadly he's one of the few remainers with the integrity on this forum to take that view. Neither revoking of article 50 "until we can get our act together" (read, "leaving the EU ain't never going to happen") or going with May's current deal, does respect the vote. It doesn't necessarily disrespect it- it's just saying that we have to take a step back and properly work this thing out- a solution could involve cross party agreement over Brexit- it then ceases to be a party pinball game. Both revoking or just leaving take EU out of the equation for the time being, which is not a bad thing. Any negotiated deal with the EU will leave us with the dirty end of the stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
talahtnut Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Give the Irish a referendum on unification of Ireland. A good chance of dumping the backstop. However, counting is going to be difficult if there's more than ten votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 42 minutes ago, tebee said: Brexit: The Abysmal Reality Of Becoming Poorer https://www.forbes.com/sites/randybrown/2018/12/10/brexit-the-abysmal-reality-of-becoming-poorer/ The Brexit drama has been an abysmal fractious saga. Polls show that U.K. voters more readily identify as either “Leave” or “Remain” more than they do their political party. That polarization seriously undermines democracy and may dominate politics for decades to come. At this point, May’s plan is pragmatic, and the fact that the extreme element on either side don’t like it implies she may have found a workable center. I have never liked any of your posts tebee but you can have one for that quote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jip99 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 2 hours ago, baboon said: Hey, more fool anyone who takes these toe-rags at their word... That must be where my stupidity stems from...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rixalex Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I'll tell you where the UK will go from here. in the new year, May will propose another referendum. The choices; do you accept the deal on the table or do you wish to stay in the EU.So that's worked out very nicely for you hasn't it. You give yourself the two choices that you'd most prefer. Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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