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BANGKOK 19 January 2019 07:22
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Extreme Brexit could be worse than financial crisis for UK: BoE

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1 hour ago, vogie said:

Yes and Parliament chose to trigger art 50 and as you well know that means by law we have two years to agree a deal or leave. You are assuming that Parliament can do whatever it likes, it can't, do you think that the EU has a say on this matter.

With regards to withdrawing Article 50:

1) The parliament is sovereign as has been pointed out. 

2) The EU doesn’t have a say on this matter as has been ruled by the ECJ. 

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On 1/11/2019 at 11:48 AM, Chartist said:

 

Yea we should all take advice from Shinzo Abe look how well Abenomics worked for Japan, a massive QE program designed to raise inflation and increase growth. Which was a spectacular failure, Japan has the largest gross debt to GDP ratio in the world and just posted the biggest decrease in productivity for 4 years. It's a slow moving train wreck, one which Abe nor anyone else seems to have the answers to. They should get on great with the Eurozone another slow moving train wreck, when the wheels inevitably come off one or the other we can have the global recession remainers have been praying for, sure they'll attempt to blame Brexit but het you can't teach stupid.

You are perfectly free to believe that Japanese companies and their investment is of little significance to the UK and that Mr Abe has no say in the matter.

Having a rant about the Japanese economy has little bearing on the UK problems.

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On 1/11/2019 at 12:34 PM, talahtnut said:

The reality is that for years, no-one is buying new cars,

and there are millions of new cars just rotting in acres

and acres of land in the UK. Worth a quick Google.

 

That may well be the case but should the remnants of UK vehicle production be put at further risk.

 

Are you saying that Honda are not going to pause production because of brexit, that the Independent has just made it up. I am sure the workers will be glad to hear it.

As for JLR & Ford, never claimed to be brexit related, just reality in midst of brexit but shooting the messenger is par for the course.

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1 hour ago, sandyf said:

That may well be the case but should the remnants of UK vehicle production be put at further risk.

 

Are you saying that Honda are not going to pause production because of brexit, that the Independent has just made it up. I am sure the workers will be glad to hear it.

As for JLR & Ford, never claimed to be brexit related, just reality in midst of brexit but shooting the messenger is par for the course.

I only wrote simply what I wrote, I don't understand

what you're on about.  However, the UK has no auto

industry, it just sticks other countries cars together.

There is no such thing as an English car.

Car overproduction is a world wide problem, based

on stupid economics.

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7 minutes ago, talahtnut said:

I only wrote simply what I wrote, I don't understand

what you're on about.  However, the UK has no auto

industry, it just sticks other countries cars together.

There is no such thing as an English car.

Car overproduction is a world wide problem, based

on stupid economics.

there is Allard

 

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8 hours ago, talahtnut said:

I only wrote simply what I wrote, I don't understand what you're on about. 

Selective memory?

"That naughty old Independant has turned the car crisis

into an anti-brexit argument."

Is this the anti brexit argument being referred to?

"Honda announced it will pause production at its Swindon plant in April in anticipation of border disruption after Brexit on 29 March."

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6 hours ago, nontabury said:

 Another piece of news that you may have missed this week. Is that with the support of an E.U grant, paid in part by the British tax payers. Some car production from Jag/Land Rover will be transferred to Slovakia. 

Not missed, just nothing surprising. A great deal of foreign investment came to the UK because it was a major player in the EU. Once the UK is out why should they stay, logistically speaking it is better to be on the mainland. Not sudden death, more like a cancer over the coming years.

Do you really think that EU grants in the UK were never paid in part by non British taxpayers?

As I heard someone say yesterday, the UK will have to leave before the full impact of the mistake will be recognised.

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Three years down the line and not a lot has changed, Project Fear was always at the heart of the Leave argument.

 

Chris Grayling, the transport secretary, said that reversing the decision to leave the European Union would “open the door” to “extremist” populist political forces and lead to divisions not seen since the English Civil War.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-delay-block-far-right-extremists-surge-grayling-criticism-a8724281.html

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20 minutes ago, rixalex said:

If canning Brexit was as easy as you suggest, parliamentarians would have already done it.

 

Continually repeating the mantra, "parliament is sovereign", and lamenting why politicians don't just get on with scrapping Brexit, implies a very simplistic, black and white understanding of the situation without any appreciation for all the nuances that exist in a modern democracy.

 

It's akin to someone not happy with a certain minister continually repeating the mantra, "royal prerogative", over and over again, and lamenting why the Queen doesn't, as is her power, simply summon said minister and dismiss him or her.

 

Just because people have the power to do something, doesn't mean they really can.

 

Politicians know even though they COULD scrap Brexit, having voted to pass this decision over to the people, having promised to abide by the vote, having voted to trigger article 50, having had the nation vote at a general election 85% in favour of parties promising to respect the outcome of the vote, it is simply not possible now to bin the whole thing and move on as if nothing had happened, much as they would love to. The situation is more complicated than that.

There is truth in what you say

 

My point is that we need foundations based on fact

 

1) Parliament is not bound to implement the referendum result

 

2) Cameron did commit the CONs to do so

 

3) But May lost their majority

 

4) MPs are duty bound to vote for what they themselves believe to be in the best interest of their constituents

 

5) The "degree of separation" from the EU was not voted upon. 

 

6) Many MPs act to protect their own seats rather than act as they truly believe to be in the best interest of their constituents 

 

So, what way forward? Now we get to opinions. 

 

I dont think the UK will be a good member of either the EU or EFTA

 

However, staying in the single market and the customs union are obviously desirable

 

The UK is over crowded. We need to control immigration somehow. I would give priority to the EU to retain membership of the single market and retain reciprocal rights

 

On top of all that, I think our electoral system is no longer fit for purpose and I want a new referendum to enable PR so that we get multiple parties and coalition government. I wish to see the back of the CONs and LAB.

 

So let parliament agree to leave the EU but retain SM and CU (and Euratom and Galileo etc etc). Keep Sterling and stay out of Schengen.

 

Have a referendum to ratify the decision and also a referendum on the same day to introduce PR and then have an election in 12 months.

 

I think that solution would have significant majority.

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36 minutes ago, Grouse said:

There is truth in what you say

 

My point is that we need foundations based on fact

 

1) Parliament is not bound to implement the referendum result

 

2) Cameron did commit the CONs to do so

 

3) But May lost their majority

 

4) MPs are duty bound to vote for what they themselves believe to be in the best interest of their constituents

 

5) The "degree of separation" from the EU was not voted upon. 

 

6) Many MPs act to protect their own seats rather than act as they truly believe to be in the best interest of their constituents 

 

So, what way forward? Now we get to opinions. 

 

I dont think the UK will be a good member of either the EU or EFTA

 

However, staying in the single market and the customs union are obviously desirable

 

The UK is over crowded. We need to control immigration somehow. I would give priority to the EU to retain membership of the single market and retain reciprocal rights

 

On top of all that, I think our electoral system is no longer fit for purpose and I want a new referendum to enable PR so that we get multiple parties and coalition government. I wish to see the back of the CONs and LAB.

 

So let parliament agree to leave the EU but retain SM and CU (and Euratom and Galileo etc etc). Keep Sterling and stay out of Schengen.

 

Have a referendum to ratify the decision and also a referendum on the same day to introduce PR and then have an election in 12 months.

 

I think that solution would have significant majority.

 

Think EU's stance on immigration has softened somewhat over the last 2 years.

 

If Tory could split in 2 or 3 and Labour in 2 you would have a possible political terrain where PR could

be discussed.

However, introducing PR in a country like UK requires lots and lots of thinking, not easy at all

and would require a host of political decisions.

 

PR systems also have some of the potential side effects that fptp has,

there are ways to mitigate/reduce the side effects.

 

 

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