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BANGKOK 21 February 2019 09:27
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BARF dog raw meat feeding, what kind of meat do you buy at MAKRO ?

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Last week I had the full range of blood tests on my dogs, as they're getting old and so I want to know about any potential problems.

 

One of my dogs BUN results was slightly higher than 'normal', and so I asked the vet about this and she said 'slightly too much protein, but nothing to worry about'.

 

Nonetheless, I obviously I do worry about it - and am looking for GOOD ways to reduce the protein in her diet.  As mentioned previously, I feed my dogs a mostly raw meat diet.

 

At the moment I'm thinking about adding more veg./kibble and perhaps baked potato/rice to her diet - whilst reducing the meat content?

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The blood tests for my other dog indicated possibly a slight liver problem, and so she's been given Hepato (liver supplement) tablets for the next month, after which further blood tests will be taken.

 

Any advice as to how to improve their individual diets would be appreciated.

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Off topic - but neither had any blood parasites :smile:.

 

Thank god for first Bravecto, and then NexGuard Plus, as previously I'd had endless problems with tick-borne blood parasites!

 

'Wonder drugs' in line with penicillin from my pov!

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13 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Last week I had the full range of blood tests on my dogs, as they're getting old and so I want to know about any potential problems.

 

One of my dogs BUN results was slightly higher than 'normal', and so I asked the vet about this and she said 'slightly too much protein, but nothing to worry about'.

 

Nonetheless, I obviously I do worry about it - and am looking for GOOD ways to reduce the protein in her diet.  As mentioned previously, I feed my dogs a mostly raw meat diet.

 

At the moment I'm thinking about adding more veg./kibble and perhaps baked potato/rice to her diet - whilst reducing the meat content?

As stated before, my very healthy 13 year old is on raw meat diet, predominantly ground chicken or turkey. As a "filler", I include some cooked carrots and potatoes, sometimes some greens like Brussels sprouts or broccoli, but mostly carrots. This may address your reduction of protein question.

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24 minutes ago, neeray said:

As stated before, my very healthy 13 year old is on raw meat diet, predominantly ground chicken or turkey. As a "filler", I include some cooked carrots and potatoes, sometimes some greens like Brussels sprouts or broccoli, but mostly carrots. This may address your reduction of protein question.

So more veg. is probably the answer?

 

Not at all sure about carrots as even in the uk they were found to be full of various chemicals - unless organic.

 

But I am thinking along similar lines - more (foreign sourced if at all possible) brussels and spinach along with potatoes or rice.

Edited by dick dasterdly

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One way for them to get veg nutrients is to make a vegetable stock soup. Mix with scrap rice. My dogs won't touch boiled veg or fruit....except coconut flesh which they love.

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22 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Last week I had the full range of blood tests on my dogs, as they're getting old and so I want to know about any potential problems.

 

One of my dogs BUN results was slightly higher than 'normal', and so I asked the vet about this and she said 'slightly too much protein, but nothing to worry about'.

 

Nonetheless, I obviously I do worry about it - and am looking for GOOD ways to reduce the protein in her diet.  As mentioned previously, I feed my dogs a mostly raw meat diet.

 

At the moment I'm thinking about adding more veg./kibble and perhaps baked potato/rice to her diet - whilst reducing the meat content?

If the vet said it isn't something to worry about then I probably wouldn't worry about it (number doesn't seem too high to the vet). The vet is probably looking at the dog from an age point of view (older dogs/possible renal issues around the corner).

Yes, a high BUN isn't perfect, but if you take protein out of the diet then it can lead to other things like reduced glomerular filtration rate (GFR) - so less protein means less blood being filtered through so more toxins staying, and reduced renal plasma flow. 

I think the old thinking was that high protein does have a negative impact on kidneys as studies show that, however, the studies were done on rats, not dogs. As dogs do eat high protein diets, newer (but small) studies have found high protein diets do not cause actual harm, just slightly elevate the BUN - as is the case with your dog.

I am obviously no vet but if I was to have a guess, that is possibly where the vet is coming from. Phosphorus levels okay?

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On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 11:04 PM, neeray said:

As stated before, my very healthy 13 year old is on raw meat diet, predominantly ground chicken or turkey. As a "filler", I include some cooked carrots and potatoes, sometimes some greens like Brussels sprouts or broccoli, but mostly carrots. This may address your reduction of protein question.

Here's a typical meal, two times per day. Raw turkey or chicken, carrots, hard boiled egg (or usually half per meal), broccoli. Often boiled potatoes substituted.

image1 (93).jpeg

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On 1/27/2019 at 12:04 PM, grollies said:

One way for them to get veg nutrients is to make a vegetable stock soup. Mix with scrap rice. My dogs won't touch boiled veg or fruit....except coconut flesh which they love.

Can't thank you enough for this post as my smaller dog eats slowly and carefully around any veg. in her food, even though I'd chopped it up into tiny pieces....

 

Taking your advice, I add more water and blend the veg. mixture - then mix it with minced beef or lamb (along with other components of their morning meal), and it works!

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On 1/28/2019 at 10:05 AM, wildewillie89 said:

If the vet said it isn't something to worry about then I probably wouldn't worry about it (number doesn't seem too high to the vet). The vet is probably looking at the dog from an age point of view (older dogs/possible renal issues around the corner).

Yes, a high BUN isn't perfect, but if you take protein out of the diet then it can lead to other things like reduced glomerular filtration rate (GFR) - so less protein means less blood being filtered through so more toxins staying, and reduced renal plasma flow. 

I think the old thinking was that high protein does have a negative impact on kidneys as studies show that, however, the studies were done on rats, not dogs. As dogs do eat high protein diets, newer (but small) studies have found high protein diets do not cause actual harm, just slightly elevate the BUN - as is the case with your dog.

I am obviously no vet but if I was to have a guess, that is possibly where the vet is coming from. Phosphorus levels okay?

Yes, I suspect the vet was taking her age into consideration.  I can't see that any phosphorus level test was done. :sad:

 

Incidentally, her allergy problems cropped up again a couple of weeks ago - and I came down with some 'bug' a week ago, and couldn't 'deal' with chopping up mackerel  🤢.  Bearing in mind they get plenty of protein from their mostly raw meat diet, do you think it's ok to substitute the chopped up mackerel for fish oil capsules?

Edited by dick dasterdly

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7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Can't thank you enough for this post as my smaller dog eats slowly and carefully around any veg. in her food, even though I'd chopped it up into tiny pieces....

 

Taking your advice, I add more water and blend the veg. mixture - then mix it with minced beef or lamb (along with other components of their morning meal), and it works!

Nice one, glad she's eating well. Watch out for the farts though!

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2 minutes ago, grollies said:

Nice one, glad she's eating well. Watch out for the farts though!

Weirdly, my dogs rarly fart!  Which is a shame insofar as I used to love looking at my whippet (when he farted), turning round to look at his bum in suprise 😁.

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I do not think that any protein excess would be bad for dogs, but carbs excess is CLEARLY bad and everybody knows that.

 

 

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On 2/2/2019 at 1:27 PM, dick dasterdly said:

Yes, I suspect the vet was taking her age into consideration.  I can't see that any phosphorus level test was done. :sad:

 

Incidentally, her allergy problems cropped up again a couple of weeks ago - and I came down with some 'bug' a week ago, and couldn't 'deal' with chopping up mackerel  🤢.  Bearing in mind they get plenty of protein from their mostly raw meat diet, do you think it's ok to substitute the chopped up mackerel for fish oil capsules?

Fish will always be the better option. Although you can get the same amount of omega 3 from the capsules, there are always extra minerals and vitamins that are easier processed by eating real fish. However, obviously you cannot at the moment so the capsules are much better than not giving anything,

Older dogs need higher quality protein than younger dogs in general. Another reason the vet probably said not to worry. 

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