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BANGKOK 26 March 2019 23:32
Chris Po

We have no committee anymore but management does not care.

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1 hour ago, anfh said:

I would be seriously getting together with the three resigned members and try and get them to act […]

Agree 100%.

 

Don’t bother with the manager, the remaining committee members should call for an EGM and explain the problems to the co-owners who can then vote about replacing management if there really is a problem with management.

 

This will be a lot easier than persuade your JPM to call for the EGM, if he is part of the management company, or getting 20% of co-owners to sign for an EGM (which would be the option to use, if the 3 remaining committee members don’t want to arrange it).

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2 hours ago, anfh said:

I would be seriously getting together with the three resigned members and try and get them to act.

Act how, exactly?

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49 minutes ago, lkn said:

Don’t bother with the manager, the remaining committee members should call for an EGM and explain the problems to the co-owners who can then vote about replacing management if there really is a problem with management.

And again, how exactly should the committee members do that if they dont know the contact details of co-owners and if the JPM and/or management doesn't want to help them?

 

Presumably by "manager" you mean the JPM? Before advising on bypassing the JPM I think that it would be better to know what the position of the JPM is in this. If he is dragging his feet and obstructing the committee then clearly he needs to be changed and the opportunity to do that will arise at the next AGM. At the moment all we really know is that the committee and "management" dont get on. We really do need more details about the management structure and who or what the JPM is, and his eventual relationship to the building management.

 

Also you assume that the committee members are interested in doing anything at all. From the description given by the OP it would seem that they are not as they seem to have tried to wash their hands of the problem by resigning and walking away, which does not put them in a very good light at all. We have had people do the same in my building, and for me they are just lazy quitters.

 

I'm not sure that it would really be worthwhile calling an EGM now when the AGM is due to be held early next year anyway, unless it is clear that management are truly awful.

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Thank you a lot for all your inputs ! 

I want to mention some fact ( i am not sure if they are true) the last board member told me. 

He said :  1) the Developer has not sold more than 40 % of the Condos, so he decides and gives the office the advices.  

2) The sinking found is not handled over to the management. 

3) we can not replace the management because when we make a AGM the developer has the most votes , 

 

We have now since December 2017 the same company but the 3rd team sitting in office and pretending work for us. 

The last days the new manager changed the rules for parking and fined the owners with 2000 Baht ( Unlock car or motorbike) . 

I was office today and told her, that she can not change rules without our permission. AGM can change rules, not the manager. 

 

Wednesday we have a small owner meeting, there are maybe 15 -20 people here now, we want to prepare a resolution, if the office does not follow our rules, we want to get rid of them as fast as possible, 

 

Greetings 

Chris

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Thank you a lot for all your inputs ! 

I want to mention some fact ( i am not sure if they are true) the last board member told me. 

He said :  1) the Developer has not sold more than 40 % of the Condos, so he decides and gives the office the advices.  

2) The sinking found is not handled over to the management. 

3) we can not replace the management because when we make a AGM the developer has the most votes 

The Condo Act limits the voting rights of any one owner to 50%. But that doesnt really help you very much, unfortunately, as even 50% of the vote is more than enough to control a GM. That rule should be reduced to 10% maximum.

 

"The last days the new manager changed the rules for parking and fined the owners with 2000 Baht ( Unlock car or motorbike) . 

I was office today and told her, that she can not change rules without our permission. AGM can change rules, not the manager. "

 

Only a majority decision of the committee can alter fines, and it could also be discussed and voted on in a GM also though that wouldnt normally be needed. The management company and JPM can never decide this.

 

Do make sure that the developer is paying the common fee for unsold units: they usually try to wriggle out of doing so but it isnt legal.

Your building may have an internal rule that prevents owners with common fee debts from voting at GMs, and that may work in your favour if your developer isnt paying.

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Yes, we have this : who does not pay common fee can not vote. 

How to find out if the developer pays ? 

Our "Board" says : we are not existing anymore and as normal owner we will not see the details. 

Can the developer decide which company manage us ????

Greetings

Chris 

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Yes, we have this : who does not pay common fee can not vote. 

How to find out if the developer pays ? 

Our "Board" says : we are not existing anymore and as normal owner we will not see the details. 

Can the developer decide which company manage us ????

Greetings

Chris 

Co –owners decide –not the developer operating in isolation

The developer (whom I assume is a co –owner) can organize a EGM (rules apply ) and at such a meeting (assuming legal) a motion –if passed by a simple majority –can change the management company.

Remember the EGM  is only changing the management company –not the JPM

Edited by Delight
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And again, how exactly should the committee members do that if they dont know the contact details of co-owners and if the JPM and/or management doesn't want to help them?

 

Presumably by "manager" you mean the JPM? Before advising on bypassing the JPM I think that it would be better to know what the position of the JPM is in this. If he is dragging his feet and obstructing the committee then clearly he needs to be changed and the opportunity to do that will arise at the next AGM. At the moment all we really know is that the committee and "management" dont get on. We really do need more details about the management structure and who or what the JPM is, and his eventual relationship to the building management.

 

Also you assume that the committee members are interested in doing anything at all. From the description given by the OP it would seem that they are not as they seem to have tried to wash their hands of the problem by resigning and walking away, which does not put them in a very good light at all. We have had people do the same in my building, and for me they are just lazy quitters.

 

I'm not sure that it would really be worthwhile calling an EGM now when the AGM is due to be held early next year anyway, unless it is clear that management are truly awful.

 

Further, have the committee members, indeed all co-owners seen / been given an audited set of accounts (detailed income and expenditure) and bank books recently? 

 

If not, why not approach the office manager and staff / the juristic person / the outside management company / current and resigned committee members and request these documents. If they say 'cannot' then ask why not.  If you decided to do this I suggest you should have at least 1 other person, even 2 people with you as witnesses. 

 

Further does the building have a specific lawyer? When I was on the committee for my old condo in Bkk there was an 'appointed lawyer' and his contract said he had to come to meetings when requested, and he did and he did give very specific and clear explanations of the appropriate laws and regulations etc., and he always had several copies of the written laws and regulations with him, in Thai and English. and these were distributed across the meetings for everybody to read, then passed back to the lawyer when the meeting finished.  All owners etc., present were welcome to take smartphone copies of the relevant pages. 

Has anybody approached this person for legal advice?

 

My understanding is that there is a specific unit of the Royal Thai Police who handle these matters. Why not call then and check this point, if they say no then ask 'who should we contact?' 

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No, we have no lawyer. 

When the Board was elected, there where 2 men, who lived here from the beginning, ( 3 years ), i just lived 5 month here,....these 2 guys where the "basic, the engine" of the board. The others, its my opinion , they take only as decoration. 2 of them come here only for holiday, the 3rd  decoration is a nice guy, but i think they never asked him a lot about decissions they made.  One "motor" sold already and moved, the second is going to sell, has no interest anymore, the 3rd one  is still here, he resigned also, the others i have never seen. 

 

There was never a meeting with the board members, where you can talk with them as simple owner, no information what is going on. 

If i dont talk with people at the pool i dont know that they resigned. 

I have a facebook group about our Condo, about the problems we have. 

 

 

Here, the 3rd guy postet recently that we have no board anymore. 

Than i saw in office that the pictures of the board members are removed. 

 

Since we have official no board anymore the Office thinks they can change rules and regulations as they want and fine the owners.

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Remember the EGM  is only changing the management company –not the JPM

We elected at the GM a company to manage us. 

But we did not elect a special person. The company changed this persons meanwhile 3 times. 

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Co –owners decide –not the developer operating in isolation

The developer (whom I assume is a co –owner) can organize a EGM (rules apply ) and at such a meeting (assuming legal) a motion –if passed by a simple majority –can change the management company.

Remember the EGM  is only changing the management company –not the JPM

Actually the committee can change the management company, if it wants to. A co-owner vote is not required (though most people would consider it preferable). This is particularly applicable if the management company needs to be changed at a time that doesn't coincide with a GM.

 

The EGM can also replace the JPM, if necessary. Anything can be done at an EGM. The committee, however, can not sack the JPM.

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We elected at the GM a company to manage us. 

But we did not elect a special person. The company changed this persons meanwhile 3 times. 

You dont seem to understand the terminology.

 

The JPM is a person or company specifically selected by co-owners at a GM to act as legal representative of the building. This is not the same as the building manager (who is just regular staff), nor is it the same as the management company. Some buildings dont have a manager or management company at all, but all buildings must have a JPM. Though in some buildings there are links between the three.

 

It sounds like your management company just changed the building manager, which they can do as often as they want if his contract is with them rather than with you. Either way you really need to get to the bottom of who is who in your building as some changes are legal and some are not.

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Since we have official no board anymore the Office thinks they can change rules and regulations as they want and fine the owners. 

They certainly cannot impose fines. That is the committee's job. Changes to internal regulations would require a large majority vote of all co-owners at a GM.

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Further, have the committee members, indeed all co-owners seen / been given an audited set of accounts (detailed income and expenditure) and bank books recently?

Accounts only have to be presented once a year, at an AGM which has to be held within 120 days of the end of the financial year. There is no actual requirement to show bank books though any management company that hides them is probably up to no good.

 

Cash-flow reports have to be made available to all co-owners (ie on a noticeboard) for the previous month by the 15th of every month.

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Yes, we have this : who does not pay common fee can not vote. 

How to find out if the developer pays ?

Excellent. You are entitled to know who has outstanding bills, and if your rules say that co-owners with outstanding bills cannot vote then you have the developer completely over a barrel. The only difficulties will be getting the proper documentation of the debts - and it sounds like your management company may not give it to you - and getting the JPM and/or the management company to disallow the developers votes. If they wont do it then you can complain to the Land Office about this in writing and they may do something about it.

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