Income Affidavit for annual Retirement extension

[madmen]

i, for one am not counting on the letter, ( which have been using the combo  method for 12 years)  being accepted for end of june renewal.
if u do and they dont accept it, ur screwed,
Better to put the 800,000 in the bank 3 months in advance and save the $50 for the letter.
 
Truth of the matter;
If you dont have the 800,000 or cant get it....make plans to be heading out

Why? When 20 k gets you an agent. Now if they ban agents... But to much changing hands so doubt it

[DrJack54]

Bit unrelated, but as I read many posts debating the legality of "using an agent" I have a little smile as I see many adds at top of threads, along the lines..."extensions no 800k required in bank no 65k income required". Indeed if this practice is sooo illegal how can the companies/agents use such open platforms..

[yodsak]

13 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Bit unrelated, but as I read many posts debating the legality of "using an agent" I have a little smile as I see many adds at top of threads, along the lines..."extensions no 800k required in bank no 65k income required". Indeed if this practice is sooo illegal how can the companies/agents use such open platforms..

Indeed,,  this is an ad from the agency at soi 5.  jomtien   [allegedly]

[JLCrab]

23 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Indeed if this practice is sooo illegal how can the companies/agents use such open platforms..

There is a process under Section 35 of the Immigration Act that allows certain officials to waive the requirements for extension of stay. That is a legitimate process. However that same Section 35 also says that the fee for such process waiver should be that established under 'Ministerial Regulation' which is 1900 baht.

 

So, since money is not given to the IMM ofificial directly but to an 'agent' intermediary, it is possible to dance around and say well we only gave the official 1900 baht but made a contribution to the RTP Widows and Orphans Fund so there is no problem or at least no problem that is going to be readily proven otherwise.

Edited December 7, 2018 by JLCrab

[steve73]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 10:54 AM, sumrit said:

Seconded.

 

Also, if some of that money paid to the agent is used to pay a bank official to supply a letter 'confirming' the required money has been seasoned when in fact it hasn't, this is also illegal and means the expat is part of the conspiracy.

The banks does not indicate the money has been seasoned - that's the I/Os function.

The bank (at least, mine, and others I understand) charge me 100bt to issue a stamped/signed letter that confirms my name, account #, and the amount on that day/time.

If my bank book does not clearly indicate that the funds have not dropped below the required amount in the previous 3 months (e.g. it shows consolidated totals), then I also get the bank to print, stamp, and sign a 3 month statement (which they charge from 25 to 100 bt).

The I/O uses these supporting documents to decide if the money has been adequately seasoned.

[sumrit]

3 hours ago, steve73 said:

The banks does not indicate the money has been seasoned - that's the I/Os function.

The bank (at least, mine, and others I understand) charge me 100bt to issue a stamped/signed letter that confirms my name, account #, and the amount on that day/time.

If my bank book does not clearly indicate that the funds have not dropped below the required amount in the previous 3 months (e.g. it shows consolidated totals), then I also get the bank to print, stamp, and sign a 3 month statement (which they charge from 25 to 100 bt).

The I/O uses these supporting documents to decide if the money has been adequately seasoned.

So the bank supplies information to show how much money is in the account and how long it has been there. If the IO uses that information supplied by the bank to confirm enough money has been in the account for the required length of time I called that by its most commonly used name............. seasoning, whether the bank actually uses that word in its letter or not it has confirmed the requirement.

 

If however, an agent has bribed a bank employee to supply an inaccurate and untruthful letter in order to give the impression the expat meets the financial requirements when in fact he doesn't that's illegal and fraudulent. The agent, bank employee and the expat are all part of that conspiracy.

[DrJack54]

To put a sharper edge to it, regarding using an agent to obtain extension based on money in bank or 65k income, is legal or illegal. So if I use an agent (personally I don't) pay my 15-20k baht or whatever, where would someone stand? As mentioned in my post, there are companies advertising this service very publicly. Thaivisa platform included. I guess what I'm interested in....is the extension stamp someone obtains using an agent, valid, legit, whatever you call it. Anticipating the members jumping in with comments such as...its fake and illegal, etc. Then how is it I know folk that have used agent and down the track applied for reentry permit (without using agent) and obtained one no problem. I would have imagined this is a simple question. Apparently not. This post is not sidetracking thread. As many threads running on similar questions in light of some embassies changes to "letter".

Members opinions sought.

Edited December 7, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[DrJack54]

37 minutes ago, sumrit said:

So the bank supplies information to show how much money is in the account and how long it has been there. If the IO uses that information supplied by the bank to confirm enough money has been in the account for the required length of time I called that by its most commonly used name............. seasoning, whether the bank actually uses that word in its letter or not it has confirmed the requirement.

 

If however, an agent has bribed a bank employee to supply an inaccurate and untruthful letter in order to give the impression the expat meets the financial requirements when in fact he doesn't that's illegal and fraudulent. The agent, bank employee and the expat are all part of that conspiracy.

Is this law 101 or sequel to Mel Gibson Conspiracy Theory. 

Can someone point me to ONE charge of fraud to an xpat on basis of using an agent. I personally haven't heard of one in my brief 7 yrs. 

[tropo]

37 minutes ago, sumrit said:

So the bank supplies information to show how much money is in the account and how long it has been there. If the IO uses that information supplied by the bank to confirm enough money has been in the account for the required length of time I called that by its most commonly used name............. seasoning, whether the bank actually uses that word in its letter or not it has confirmed the requirement.

 

If however, an agent has bribed a bank employee to supply an inaccurate and untruthful letter in order to give the impression the expat meets the financial requirements when in fact he doesn't that's illegal and fraudulent. The agent, bank employee and the expat are all part of that conspiracy.

Your list is a bit short: "The agent, bank employee and the expat are all part of that conspiracy". The most important participant is the office providing the rubber stamps. That's a whole lot of people from top dog down to the lowly shitkicker... and extends up into the ministerial departments as everyone wants a piece of the pie. Due to the extent of the system, it's a safe bet it will continue unabated.

 

If we're looking for a comparison to other "systems" that endure the test to time, look no further than the sex industry, still alive and well in a country where prostitution is supposed to be illegal. Military takeover - promise to clean up corruption. What happened? The people who profit from corruption are shuffled around. It has been over 4 1/2 years since the current takeover and we're still waiting for the cleanup.

[yodsak]

45 minutes ago, sumrit said:

So the bank supplies information to show how much money is in the account and how long it has been there. If the IO uses that information supplied by the bank to confirm enough money has been in the account for the required length of time I called that by its most commonly used name............. seasoning, whether the bank actually uses that word in its letter or not it has confirmed the requirement.

 

If however, an agent has bribed a bank employee to supply an inaccurate and untruthful letter in order to give the impression the expat meets the financial requirements when in fact he doesn't that's illegal and fraudulent. The agent, bank employee and the expat are all part of that conspiracy.

The agent does not bribe the bank employee.

The letter and statement and bankbook  show 800k on that day

The letter and statement is accurate and truthful, 

The 3 mths is waived by the IO

HTH

[Olmate]

45 minutes ago, sumrit said:

So the bank supplies information to show how much money is in the account and how long it has been there. If the IO uses that information supplied by the bank to confirm enough money has been in the account for the required length of time I called that by its most commonly used name............. seasoning, whether the bank actually uses that word in its letter or not it has confirmed the requirement.

 

If however, an agent has bribed a bank employee to supply an inaccurate and untruthful letter in order to give the impression the expat meets the financial requirements when in fact he doesn't that's illegal and fraudulent. The agent, bank employee and the expat are all part of that conspiracy.

Banks are not involved, nor are you. IM waives seasoning, you pay fee for agents assistance,  you don, t ask what it involves ,Your extension legal as the one you do yourself, without the hassle. My original OA cost me more at home.

[yodsak]

34 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

To put a sharper edge to it, regarding using an agent to obtain extension based on money in bank or 65k income, is legal or illegal. So if I use an agent (personally I don't) pay my 15-20k baht or whatever, where would someone stand? As mentioned in my post, there are companies advertising this service very publicly. Thaivisa platform included. I guess what I'm interested in....is the extension stamp someone obtains using an agent, valid, legit, whatever you call it. Anticipating the members jumping in with comments such as...its fake and illegal, etc. Then how is it I know folk that have used agent and down the track applied for reentry permit (without using agent) and obtained one no problem. I would have imagined this is a simple question. Apparently not. This post is not sidetracking thread. As many threads running on similar questions in light of some embassies changes to "letter".

Members opinions sought.

Same stamp everybody else gets, + in the computer.   

You have to go and have your photo taken at the local office by an IO 

The stamp is legit, otherwise how could you go out of the country ? or get a re-entry, or do a 90day report,

 

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, yodsak said:

Same stamp everybody else gets, + in the computer.   

You have to go and have your photo taken at the local office by an IO 

The stamp is legit, otherwise how could you go out of the country ? or get a re-entry, or do a 90day report,

 

Bit off topic but can anyone explain why using an agent in this scenario is so morally and legally questionable, Yet doing  agent assisted border runs to “best option”, Agent assisted Ed visa,s, Metv.s,this Embassy is good, this is not, etc, is considered par for the course.This air entry point is not the go ,land crossings if you do this not that There,s something more in this discussion that smacks of an arrogance and disregard for your fellows.The OP last nite where a guy tried to relate his experience with embassy Oz in Phuket an example. What’s the reasoning behind a fellow expat berating another when we are all here for the same reason....to retire in peace and in some small way contribute to this place we choose to call......?

Edited December 7, 2018 by Olmate
Spelling

[sumrit]

2 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Is this law 101 or sequel to Mel Gibson Conspiracy Theory. 

Can someone point me to ONE charge of fraud to an xpat on basis of using an agent. I personally haven't heard of one in my brief 7 yrs. 

I can point to loads of people arrested and deported in the last year or so for overstaying visas, working illegally, teachers working without work permits/not having the correct qualifications etc, etc.

 

In recent years they've tightened up on education visas, teachers qualifications, TM30's, qualifying for non O visas from your home country, etc.

 

Looks like they're tightening up on the 65k baht income option at the moment (although we don't know the outcome yet)

 

Who knows what the next target will be...............possibly questionable agents and expats fiddling the 800k baht option.

 

And one thing is definitely true, they're not doing this to target people who are legit, it's aimed at people fiddling the current system. 

[JLCrab]

9 hours ago, Olmate said:

Banks are not involved, nor are you. IM waives seasoning, you pay fee for agents assistance,  you don, t ask what it involves ,Your extension legal as the one you do yourself, without the hassle.

You don't ask what it involves because you don't want to know.

 

You your stamp is legal as the one you do yourself up to the point, if ever, that the IO with stamp is relieved of his/her duties for running a bribe operation and they want to look at all the stamps he/she has previously issued.

[lamyai3]

On 12/4/2018 at 4:21 PM, JLCrab said:

And the fee for these services rendered is in the Ministerial Regulations as 1900 baht and anything above that is a bribe.

You might be confusing bribery with extortion here.

 

[JLCrab]

It is not extortion because there is no implicit or explicit threat if one doesn't make the payment in excess of the 1900 as specified in the Immigration Act. It is a bribe because the IMM officer says they will not issue a waiver of  extension requirements without the excess payment.

[lamyai3]

If I'm stopped by traffic cop on a minor technicality, and get told to slip him 500 baht, am I paying a bribe? It's his suggestion and coercion, not my attempt to pay him off - I'd say this falls into the category of extortion.

 

There are many postings on here mentioning coercion to use an agent, and a reluctance to follow accepted procedures. This seems like the very definition of an implicit threat, to give worse than fair treatment in the event of a refusal to pay. 

[JLCrab]

You win. It is extortion not bribery. And so what?

Edited December 7, 2018 by JLCrab

[lamyai3]

52 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

You win. It is extortion not bribery. And so what?

Nothing really, except that "bribe" throws the emphasis of corruption onto the person having to pay, when in fact they're being held over a barrel. 

[JLCrab]

24 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Nothing really, except that "bribe" throws the emphasis of corruption onto the person having to pay, when in fact they're being held over a barrel. 

They're only held over a barrel if they only want to go the 20K baht cash payment route and don't want to or don't have the means to go one of the more formal routes.

[ubonjoe]

I have just removed 11 baiting and bickering posts done by 2 members. Any more of them may result in a formal warning.