New Zealand defense report says climate change greatest security risk

[bristolboy]

Just now, Catoni said:

  Ohhhhh..... I see.......  the World Bank sees it as an "investment".... to make a hundreds of billions of $ or even a few trillion bucks back maybe.....  Not actually to "save the planet".    I get it....  they're taking advantage of the Alarmism to make a huge financial score.....   pretty smart....   

 

   Thank you for pointing that out...  it's a money making scheme for them.....  like with Al Gore and his global warming/cliamte change Alarmist movies and books and speaker's fees.... .

 

      Wow.... I'm glad we got that cleared up....   55555 ????  

You think investments are just ways of exploiting the poor? You actually believe that investments can't bring about beneficial change? What are you?  Some kind of socialist?

[Hummin]

3 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Bangkok is one metre above sea level.

 

The majority of politicians are in thrall to the fossil fuel industry. The current Australian Prime Minister ( not for long, hopefully ) even brought a lump of coal into Parliament to wave around. Science is inconvenient to most politicians focused on unending economic growth.

 

The Larsen Ice Shelf in Antarctica is shrinking at an unprecedented rate. There will be 60% less water flow to the Mekong and Ganges from the Tibetan Plateau by 2050. The Greenland ice cap is melting at 5 times the rate of  pre-industrial times, and the rate is accelerating due to the albedo effect.

 

Taking the Greenland ice cap in isolation, complete melting will result in a worldwide rise in sea level of 7 metres.

 

Any climate skeptics out there who would like to buy a condo in Bangkok? I have a friend who is trying to sell his. He'll even throw in a rowboat.

That appartmend will be terminated before you will see any significsnt higher level! Our generation 50+ can drink champagne and celebrate life to we die! 

[Catoni]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

It's clear that you don't understand the difference between climate and weather.

And as for the World Bank blowing money on climate change, I guess that means you've taken a look at the projects they are investing in and after careful and thoughtful perusal, you came to the conclusion that they were worthless. I mean how could it be otherwise that that from someone who just a few minutes ago believed that the World Bank was some sort of charity that gave money away?

>"It's clear that you don't understand the difference between climate and weather."

 

    Irrelevant.......  makes no difference...     You still couldn't walk outside on two different days and feel if one day is one degree warmer or not for weather temp... . not without an accurate thermometer     You also couldn't do it if you were to step outside both today.... and one hundred years from now and tell one degree change....  for climate temp increase..

    One degree is one degree...... whether you are talking weather or climate.  It's a measurement of temperature usually taken with a thermometer of some kind.  I'm shocked you fail to grasp that fact.   

    

>" I guess that means you've taken a look at the projects they are investing in and after careful and >thoughtful perusal, you came to the conclusion that they were worthless."

 

       Not at all...   If they are doing some good work ...good for them. That's not what I am concerned about. Please stay on topic and stop trying to dodge or avoid my point. 

     My point is:    (pay attention now)    The World Bank is going to totally waste $200 BILLION dollars... that COULD be instead going to save about 4000 children that day EVERY DAY.  

   Do you like larger numbers ? ?    Okay.... that 4000 dead children a day is 1,460,000 dead children a year....        That $200 billion is being totally wasted...  And who said it is being "invested"?  Being used to pad their bank vaults with huge returns...    The children can't drink the bank's "investment". 

       GET IT  ? ? ? 

[Catoni]

26 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You think investments are just ways of exploiting the poor? You actually believe that investments can't bring about beneficial change? What are you?  Some kind of socialist?

     No,....  not a socialist.  Although in my high school and college days back in the '70's and '80's I was a socialist/Marxist activist and a cell leader and student organizer in college. We took part in lots of marches... carried our banners and chanted our "one, two, three, four.............." chants.. and our "Hey, hey, ho, ho.........." chants.  We shut down the international bridge between Buffalo, N.Y. and Fort Erie, Canada to protest the nuke testing under Amchitka Island and got our photos taken by U.S. officers and Canadian Mounties and police..  Lots of "Peace" and dis-armament marches in Toronto...   Almost all our literature was printed in Moscow....  We were connected to the Soviet/Warsaw Pact front organization the World Peace Council. 

   And then I read Alexander Solzhenitsyn's works..... read Ayn Rand, read Ludwig von Mises and Hayek and others..... and I left my comrades and got out of the movement.  I started speaking out against my former "comrades".  I became a defender of Competitive free enterprise, Individual freedom....  personal responsibility...  I learned to hate totalitarianism...  of all stripes...  whether far right or far left...  or religious extremism....This cost me getting the crap beaten out of me pretty bady one time after that... and threatened with death...for being a 'traitor" to the "cause" ..it included a broken jaw, two lost teeth, broken nose.. broken forearm, and concussion....and some time in the hospital.....  

    I know about socialism and Marxism/communism... 

[Krataiboy]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Henrik Svensmark is the guy who proposed that cosmic rays were responsible for global warming or cooling via cloud formation.   His theory has never gained any traction in the scientific community and depends on his denying clear cut evidence to the contrary. It's a tiny tiny minority opinion.

Khabibullo Abdussamatov is a solar physicist who believes that warming is due to periods of greater solar activity. This idea has basically been debunked. It's true that there is a weak connection but starting in about 1975 something else obliterated any observed effects from solar activity. Abdussamatov gets even less respect than Svensmark.

As for these people being well-credentialled... as physicists who study the solar system, yes. As climatologists not so much.

 

"Nobody's doing anything." That's just flat out false. But they are certainly not close to doing enough.

 

And no posting of your would be complete without the usual childish insults:

"Otherwise, the hot air in the atmosphere will be matched by more hot air from the activists, and the fearful types will have to up sticks and move to Norilsk."

"His speech reads like it was written by Prince Charles, or Bob Geldof. Or maybe Gwynneth Paltrow."

"With standard Green/Left overblown hype, UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres said this week:"

 

Pretty mild as insults go, and with more than a grain of truth. I reckon he's got a nice turn of phrase.

[bristolboy]

13 minutes ago, Catoni said:

>"It's clear that you don't understand the difference between climate and weather."

 

    Irrelevant.......  makes no difference...     You still couldn't walk outside on two different days and feel if one day is one degree warmer or not for weather temp... . not without an accurate thermometer     You also couldn't do it if you were to step outside both today.... and one hundred years from now and tell one degree change....  for climate temp increase..

    One degree is one degree...... whether you are talking weather or climate.  It's a measurement of temperature usually taken with a thermometer of some kind.  I'm shocked you fail to grasp that fact.   

    

>" I guess that means you've taken a look at the projects they are investing in and after careful and >thoughtful perusal, you came to the conclusion that they were worthless."

 

       Not at all...   If they are doing some good work ...good for them. That's not what I am concerned about. Please stay on topic and stop trying to dodge or avoid my point. 

     My point is:    (pay attention now)    The World Bank is going to totally waste $200 BILLION dollars... that COULD be instead going to save about 4000 children that day EVERY DAY.  

   Do you like larger numbers ? ?    Okay.... that 4000 dead children a day is 1,460,000 dead children a year....        That $200 billion is being totally wasted...  And who said it is being "invested"?  Being used to pad their bank vaults with huge returns...    The children can't drink the bank's "investment". 

       GET IT  ? ? ? 

The Earth emerged from the depths of the latest ice age over a period of 5000 years. In that time the global average temperature changed from 4-7 degrees Celsius.

During the Eocene epoch, when temperatures were the warmest they've been in the last 65 million years, the average ocean temperature was only 3 degrees centigrade warmer than it is now.

Right now temperatures are increasing 10 times as fast. And the rate of increase is accelerating. Scientists have repeatedly correlated what may seem to you like small temperature differentals that have had huge consequences for the climate. So naturally, why would anyone believe them and their mountains of data instead of you and your assertions of its insignificance? 

Once again, the rate of change is accelerating. 

 

As for the World Bank on the one hand you write 

 " If they are doing some good work ...good for them"

On the other hand you write:

"The World Bank is going to totally waste $200 BILLION dollars... that COULD be instead going to save about 4000 children that day EVERY DAY.  "

On the one hand you don't know what projects the 200 billion dollars is going to fund and yet you call it a waste?

And you still don't seem to get it. The World Bank is a bank., It's not a charity. It doesn't give money away. So while it's terrible that children are dying for lack of clean water, they can't give money away to charities that address this problem., It's not legal for them to do that. It can't do what it pleases with its funders' money? Do you understand that the World Bank is a bank? Why do you insist on blaming it for not acting like a charity? 

Why go after the World Bank and not some conspicuous billionaires who buy private jets or grandiose beach homes or live in gilded splendor in massive penthouses rather than contribute money to this cause? They are private individuals. They can do as they please with their wealth. But what thing I'm sure of is that you would never support in any way any billionaire who isn't giving massive sums away to save the lives of these children.

[fasteddie]

What They Haven't Told You about Climate Change

[fasteddie]

Four Climate Scientists Destroy Climate Change Alarmism

[Hummin]

22 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

Four Climate Scientists Destroy Climate Change Alarmism

In the 1990s, the Heartland Institute worked with the tobacco company Philip Morris to question or deny the health risks of secondhand smoke and to lobby against smoking bans.^{[2][3]:233–34[4]} In the decade after 2000, the Heartland Institute became a leading supporter of climate change denial.^[5][6] It rejects the scientific consensus on global warming,^[7] and says that policies to fight it would be damaging to the economy.^[8]

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute

 

 

Leak exposes how Heartland Institute works to undermine climate science

Libertarian thinktank keeps prominent sceptics on its payroll and relies on millions in funding from carbon industry

 

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/feb/15/leak-exposes-heartland-institute-climate

[MaxYakov]

10 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

I'd be worried about climate change as well, positioned where they are - there's another Ice Age due in 90,000 years or so!

 

10 hours ago, bristolboy said:

 

A real live example of a someone who doesn't understand the question of rates.

Errr ... you mean "rate of change", yes? And you're a "real live example" of someone lacking a sense of humor. ????

 

Ref. Reply HERE.

 

 

 

[Kiwiken]

14 hours ago, DoctorG said:

I hear what you are saying and it makes sense. Unfortunately it is hard not to be a sceptic when so many of the expert predictions prove to be in error. 

Make the facts fit the narrative and I will be happy to support the measures.

The Sea is rising. And rising dramatically . Coastal areas around NZ are suffering Sea incursion and the reality is We will have to abandon these especially on the West Coasts of NZ. Auckland, Christchurch, Wellington and Dunedin will feel the effects of the rising Seas over the next 20-30 years. This will mean a huge threat to much of the NZ population. While the threat is apparent all Main Parties including the Greens do not seem to have any cohesive policies to challenge these threats or relocate population.

[Lacessit]

10 hours ago, Catoni said:

    Simple .... you don't give the money to the Myanmar government,  That would be like when Canada gave thousands of tons of wheat to the Ethiopian government to be distributed freely to feed starving poverty stricken Ethiopians... and it instead ended up being sold by the Ethiopian military on the black market.

 

    You instead have the money controlled by carefully chosen international charities that have good records of not wasting money and resources..  organizations like Charity: Water,     Water.Org,      WaterIsLife, 

  Blood:Water,      Generosity.org,       Lifewater International... and others...  

    I like them all...  and another one I really like is Planet Water Foundation   and there are many others..  Investigate them.... see if they control the funds themselves... or give it to the governments.  If they give the money to the governments... don't donate to them.

 

   I refuse to help fight climate change when thousands of children die each day because of dirty water.  The leftist climate alarmists have their priorities backwards and upside down...  The global warming/climate change thing is actually all about a leftist political-economic agenda... nothing more.  Climate change...(which has been going on for a few billion years) is just a weapon to use against us. 

   

     Look at this video......then decide if the World Bank spending $200 BILLION  to fight climate change is making such a wonderful smart move or not....    I say... NOT ! ! 

   

Remember....  4000 thousand dead children a day... from dirty water.....water born disease and parasites...

  THAT'S where the money should be spent.......  

The money would probably be better spent on education and condoms.

[Becker]

greenland-ice-sheet-melting-unprecedented-rate-climate-change-wxc/index.html

[Catoni]

9 hours ago, bristolboy said:

The Earth emerged from the depths of the latest ice age over a period of 5000 years. In that time the global average temperature changed from 4-7 degrees Celsius.

During the Eocene epoch, when temperatures were the warmest they've been in the last 65 million years, the average ocean temperature was only 3 degrees centigrade warmer than it is now.

Right now temperatures are increasing 10 times as fast. And the rate of increase is accelerating. Scientists have repeatedly correlated what may seem to you like small temperature differentals that have had huge consequences for the climate. So naturally, why would anyone believe them and their mountains of data instead of you and your assertions of its insignificance? 

Once again, the rate of change is accelerating. 

 

As for the World Bank on the one hand you write 

 " If they are doing some good work ...good for them"

On the other hand you write:

"The World Bank is going to totally waste $200 BILLION dollars... that COULD be instead going to save about 4000 children that day EVERY DAY.  "

On the one hand you don't know what projects the 200 billion dollars is going to fund and yet you call it a waste?

And you still don't seem to get it. The World Bank is a bank., It's not a charity. It doesn't give money away. So while it's terrible that children are dying for lack of clean water, they can't give money away to charities that address this problem., It's not legal for them to do that. It can't do what it pleases with its funders' money? Do you understand that the World Bank is a bank? Why do you insist on blaming it for not acting like a charity? 

Why go after the World Bank and not some conspicuous billionaires who buy private jets or grandiose beach homes or live in gilded splendor in massive penthouses rather than contribute money to this cause? They are private individuals. They can do as they please with their wealth. But what thing I'm sure of is that you would never support in any way any billionaire who isn't giving massive sums away to save the lives of these children.

Quoting you:  "The Earth emerged from the depths of the latest ice age over a period of 5000 years."

   No... you're wrong.... How could the Earth have emerged from the latest Ice Age when we are still in the latest Ice Age right now ? ?  We are in the Quaternary/Pleistocene Glaciation..the Current Ice Age... which began about 2.6 million years ago. 

       You're thinking about the last Glacial Period, from about 115,000 years ago, to about 11,700 years ago. (From the Eemian Interglacial to the end of the Younger Dryas.)

  You're confusing Glacial Periods and Ice Ages... You're wrong....But don't feel bad about that.... it's okay.... it's to be expected. That's an error which most people who have not done a study of Paleclimatology make. 

  

You posted:   

>"Right now temperatures are increasing 10 times as fast. And the rate of increase is accelerating. Scientists have repeatedly correlated what may seem to you like small temperature differentals that have had huge consequences for the climate. So naturally, why would anyone believe them and their mountains of data instead of you and your assertions of its insignificance? 

Once again, the rate of change is accelerating. "

 

   Uh....  again you're wrong.....  

Scientists acknowledge key errors in study of how fast the oceans are warming

Keeling said the authors' miscalculations mean there is a much larger margin of error in the findings, which means researchers can weigh in with less certainty

WASHINGTON POST

Updated: November 14, 2018

Scientists behind a major study that claimed the Earth’s oceans are warming faster than previously thought now say their work contained inadvertent errors that made their conclusions seem more certain than they actually are.

Two weeks after the high-profile study was published in the journal Nature, its authors have submitted corrections to the publication. The Scripps Institution of Oceanography, home to several of the researchers involved, also noted the problems in the scientists’ work and corrected a news release on its website, which previously had asserted that the study detailed how the Earth’s oceans “have absorbed 60 percent more heat than previously thought.”

“Unfortunately, we made mistakes here,” said Ralph Keeling, a climate scientist at Scripps, who was a co-author of the study. “I think the main lesson is that you work as fast as you can to fix mistakes when you find them.”

  Read more here:   https://vancouversun.com/news/canada/scientists-acknowledge-key-errors-in-study-of-how-fast-the-oceans-are-warming/wcm/b657fc38-c952-4280-b9a7-07903a86659e

 

 

BBC Finally Admits Ocean Warming Study Had Huge Error

Published on November 23, 2018

Written by John O'Sullivan

    

The Biased Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), which bans any and all skeptical scientific analysis on global warming, has fallen into line with other fake news outlets to concede there are gross errors in a widely-hyped ‘ocean warming’ study.

However, even now, the biased BBC cannot bring themselves to openly admit that the error was identified and brought to light by a global warming skeptic.

BBC  Environment correspondent, Matt McGrath, writes

Errors have been found in a recent study suggesting the oceans were soaking up more heat than previously estimated. The initial report suggested that the seas have absorbed 60% more than previously thought.

But a re-examination by a mathematician showed that the margin of error was larger than in the published study. The authors have acknowledged the problem and have submitted a correction to the journal.

Read more here:  https://principia-scientific.org/bbc-finally-admits-ocean-warming-study-had-huge-error/

 

 

>" It can't do what it pleases with its funders' money? Do you understand that the World Bank is a bank? Why do you >insist on blaming it for not acting like a charity? "

 

     Nothing to stop the Board of Directors and Shareholders from holding a vote to give a percentage of the profits to charity such as bringing clean water to villages to save the lives of dying children.   Or is the World Bank at the edge of bankruptcy?  

   I'm sure they are making money. After all... they had $200 BILLION to invest... right ?  You wanna bet World Bank executives are not living like kings? 

 

>"... conspicuous billionaires who buy private jets or grandiose beach homes or live in gilded splendor in massive penthouses rather than contribute money to this cause?"

 

    Okay..... we'll start with Vice-President has been...Al Gore,  and then Leonardo Di Caprio, the Canadian fruit fly Doctor David Suzuki... and to top it off... we'll go after George Soros.....  How's that for a start ? ? 

[bristolboy]

9 hours ago, fasteddie said:

Four Climate Scientists Destroy Climate Change Alarmism

I couldn't get all the names off of the video.

Richard A. Keen actually claimed that the earth is currently getting cooler, not warmer

Stanley Goldenberg is a meteorologist, not a climatologist.

Jay Lehr is a ground water hydrdolgogist. He was convicted and served six months in prison for defrauding the EPA. He also worked with the tobacco industry to debunk anti tobacco research.

 

You know, you could look this stuff up. It's not mandatory to be so gullible.

 

[Krataiboy]

15 hours ago, Lacessit said:

Bangkok is one metre above sea level.

 

The majority of politicians are in thrall to the fossil fuel industry. The current Australian Prime Minister ( not for long, hopefully ) even brought a lump of coal into Parliament to wave around. Science is inconvenient to most politicians focused on unending economic growth.

 

The Larsen Ice Shelf in Antarctica is shrinking at an unprecedented rate. There will be 60% less water flow to the Mekong and Ganges from the Tibetan Plateau by 2050. The Greenland ice cap is melting at 5 times the rate of  pre-industrial times, and the rate is accelerating due to the albedo effect.

 

Taking the Greenland ice cap in isolation, complete melting will result in a worldwide rise in sea level of 7 metres.

 

Any climate skeptics out there who would like to buy a condo in Bangkok? I have a friend who is trying to sell his. He'll even throw in a rowboat.

Condos in Bangkok are still selling like hot cakes.

https://www.ddproperty.com/en/property-news/2017/12/167351/bangkoks-condo-market-looks-set-to-grow-in-2018

 

The same goes for the area between Hua Hin and Cha Am, where I live, with new condos sprouting everywhere - mainly as close as possible to foreshore.

 

Obviously developers, builders and customers take apocraphal forecasts of seas rising by seven meters with a generous pinchof sea salt.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Krataiboy said:

 

2 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Condos in Bangkok are still selling like hot cakes.

https://www.ddproperty.com/en/property-news/2017/12/167351/bangkoks-condo-market-looks-set-to-grow-in-2018

 

The same goes for the area between Hua Hin and Cha Am, where I live, with new condos sprouting everywhere - mainly as close as possible to foreshore.

 

Obviously developers, builders and customers take apocraphal forecasts of seas rising by seven meters with a generous pinchof sea salt.

 

Apocryphal? Really?

[mikebike]

17 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Sources, please.

Doesn't matter you won't believe it anyway. Just felt like tossing you a bone.

[Krataiboy]

Just now, mikebike said:

Doesn't matter you won't believe it anyway. Just felt like tossing you a bone.

Cop out. Put up or shut up.

[Krataiboy]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Apocryphal? Really?

Yes, really.

[bristolboy]

12 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

Pretty mild as insults go, and with more than a grain of truth. I reckon he's got a nice turn of phrase.

It's almost his only turn of phrase. He uses it repeatedly. And they're still insults without evidence.

[mikebike]

2 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Cop out. Put up or shut up.

Couldn't care less about arguing with you. You are steadfast in your opinion.

[bristolboy]

7 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Cop out. Put up or shut up.

He probably has better things to do with his time. Fortunately for you, I currently don't.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107

[Krataiboy]

26 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

He probably has better things to do with his time. Fortunately for you, I currently don't.

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2010/06/04/1003187107

Yeah, but. . . fast forward six years after the study you cite and. . .

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/uhenergy/2016/12/14/fact-checking-the-97-consensus-on-anthropogenic-climate-change/

 

[Chomper Higgot]

58 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Condos in Bangkok are still selling like hot cakes.

https://www.ddproperty.com/en/property-news/2017/12/167351/bangkoks-condo-market-looks-set-to-grow-in-2018

 

The same goes for the area between Hua Hin and Cha Am, where I live, with new condos sprouting everywhere - mainly as close as possible to foreshore.

 

Obviously developers, builders and customers take apocraphal forecasts of seas rising by seven meters with a generous pinchof sea salt.

So now the narrow minded view of Bangkok’s condo market is being presented as a refutation of the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change.

 

Doh!

[Krataiboy]

4 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

So now the narrow minded view of Bangkok’s condo market is being presented as a refutation of the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change.

 

Doh!

I was reacting to a previous poster who implied that the fear of rising sea levels was having a deleterious effect on the market for condos in Bangkok. Maybe you should try looking before you leap. 

 

Duh.

[Thunder26]

5 hours ago, Becker said:

greenland-ice-sheet-melting-unprecedented-rate-climate-change-wxc/index.html

https://www.carbonbrief.org/guest-post-how-the-greenland-ice-sheet-fared-in-2018

 

Here's another link that shows that the ice mass has actually increased over Greenland recently. Yes some areas saw some loss of ice, but more areas saw ice gain.

[fasteddie]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

I couldn't get all the names off of the video.

Richard A. Keen actually claimed that the earth is currently getting cooler, not warmer

Stanley Goldenberg is a meteorologist, not a climatologist.

Jay Lehr is a ground water hydrdolgogist. He was convicted and served six months in prison for defrauding the EPA. He also worked with the tobacco industry to debunk anti tobacco research.

 

You know, you could look this stuff up. It's not mandatory to be so gullible.

 

I don't care if it's Jack the ripper and the hole in the wall gang if the message is true, anyway meteorologists and hydrologists trump railway engineers.

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, fasteddie said:

I don't care if it's Jack the ripper and the hole in the wall gang if the message is true, anyway meteorologists and hydrologists trump railway engineers.

Who cares who they are or what their credentials are?

 And if it was railway engineers vs. them you might have a point. But it's the vast majority of climatologists that your guys are up against. And some of them work for the Heartland Institute, an organization that literally makes a living out of supporting dubious causes.

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

I was reacting to a previous poster who implied that the fear of rising sea levels was having a deleterious effect on the market for condos in Bangkok. Maybe you should try looking before you leap. 

 

Duh.

I was born 60 years back in a house by Shoreham beach (Sussex UK).

House and beach are still there, the sea is still the same distance from the house.