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New Zealand defense report says climate change greatest security risk


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52 minutes ago, Thunder26 said:

I don't know if you are being sarcastic or not. My point is that it is unbelievable how mass media and education in schools brainwash people about something irrelevant to our daily lives and make them pay taxes to governments, different organizations etc. for a lost cause. CO2 has nothing to do with temperature change. There are different factors that influence the climate change and we as humans cannot control. Yes, I would agree to pay tax for making our planet less polluted, but I can't listen to their gibberish about human caused global warming and how bad it is. Why? Because they have no clue what they are talking about. They are not being honest and just looking for another way to get profits in their pockets. Humans are a gullible species. Enough said.

Thank you for your learned discourse.

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1 hour ago, Thunder26 said:

It was mentioned about Russian model that shows no Global Warming. I agree. If you ask any local Russian that lives from Ural Mountains towards East (which is away from the influence of Atlantic Gulf Stream) they would confirm that the weather was getting colder for the last decade. The winter lasts 9 months now. It ends in May with the snow melt and it starts with September when the fresh snow arrives. They get only 3 months of warm weather. They would definetely want some global warming ????

Why Are Siberian Temperatures Plummeting While the Arctic Warms?

Climate change is warming the Arctic and melting sea ice, yet Siberia has experienced significantly colder and harsher winters for the past few decades. A study published yesterday in Science Advances shows that interactions between melting regional sea ice and the stratosphere—an atmospheric layer spanning about 10–50 kilometers above Earth’s surface—play a key role in creating these frigid winter conditions.

This stratospheric pathway “significantly contributes to the occurrence of the surface cold events over the Eurasian midlatitude, especially in Siberia and East Asia,” Pengfei Zhang, lead scientist on the study, told Eos. 

https://eos.org/articles/why-are-siberian-temperatures-plummeting-while-the-arctic-warms

 

 

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5 hours ago, bristolboy said:

There was no real pause in the global warming trend after 1998. But this is an example of how deniers distort the facts. 1997-98 were the years of a huge El Nino. Which means the ocean released a lot of heat which heated up the atmosphere. So for a while the subsequent years were on average cooler than that peak. And what dishonest denialist sites did was to create graphs that started with 1998 so that it looked like a decline was in effect. They never noted that 1997-98 were El Nino years. But if you take away the 1997-98 el nino years, every year subsequent to that was warmer on average than every year going back to 1880, And there have now been non El Nino years that have been warmer than the 1997-98 El Nino years.

A pair of graphs showing how the century-long global warming trend compares to 1998â2012 and other 15-year periods

https://www.climate.gov/news-features/climate-qa/did-global-warming-stop-1998

Yeah, but. . .  My earlier posting of the Corbett Report video on The Pause had a section dealing specifically with more than sixty different excuses to explain away the haitus in the warming trend.  El Nino gets an honourable mention (twice) in the shownotes, along with other possible culprits such as solar cycles, trade winds, Chinese coal, and a whole lot of other, weird and wonderful stuff - much of it contradictory or subsequently debunked. 

Take your pick. Or conclude, as I am inclined to do, that desperation is the mother of invention.

https://www.corbettreport.com/the-global-warming-pause-explained/

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/11/updated-list-of-64-excuses-for-18-26.html

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33 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

Yeah, but. . .  My earlier posting of the Corbett Report video on The Pause had a section dealing specifically with more than sixty different excuses to explain away the haitus in the warming trend.  El Nino gets an honourable mention (twice) in the shownotes, along with other possible culprits such as solar cycles, trade winds, Chinese coal, and a whole lot of other, weird and wonderful stuff - much of it contradictory or subsequently debunked. 

Take your pick.

https://www.corbettreport.com/the-global-warming-pause-explained/

http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2014/11/updated-list-of-64-excuses-for-18-26.html

There was no hiatus in the warming trend. There was no pause in the warming trend. There was just the anomaly of the massive El Nino. As I pointed out. Every year subsequent to the El Nino was warmer than every year that preceded it going all the way back to 1880.

 

image.png.9d1265e7285787994934dc005c36ed7b.png

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201713

Below is from an article published in 2015

14 of the 15 hottest years on record have occurred since 2000, UN says

World Metereological Organisation’s analysis narrowly places 2014 as the hottest recorded since 1850, as global warming continues

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/feb/02/14-15-hottest-years-record-2000-un-global-warming

Since then every year following 2014 has been hotter. 2016 was an El Nino year. But the others not. And 2018 is also expected to be hotter than 2014.

 

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52 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

There was no hiatus in the warming trend. There was no pause in the warming trend. There was just the anomaly of the massive El Nino. As I pointed out. Every year subsequent to the El Nino was warmer than every year that preceded it going all the way back to 1880.

 

image.png.9d1265e7285787994934dc005c36ed7b.png

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/sotc/global/201713

Sorry, but I'm still hooked on the Chinese Coal theory.

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1 minute ago, Hummin said:

Nobody going to change their opinion either! Black and white ad day and night

Removing posts from questionable sources is not done to change anyone's mind.   It is to keep the topics on focus and to assure that those reading don't have to go through a lot of nonsensical or inaccurate reports thinking they are factual.

 

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Hopefully some will be aware of the inaccurate media they so much want us to convert to, is wrong, and have been proved wrong so many

Hopefully some will be aware of the inaccurate media they so much want us to convert to, is wrong, and have been proved wrong so many times by so many sources who is proving them wrong. But still they find new proof of facts, but still same providers in the first place. 

 

They are not willing to see it is the same people behind the Phillip Morris in its time fighting tobacco was dangerous, and government trying to prove tobaccos link to cancer as well they now fighting mankind clima change. Same people who spewing out falsery for cash support with no shame at all. And people want to believe so much, and do not have a clue what they are part of. 

 

But hey, people still belive in creation, so how can human possible manage to harm gods planet? Nature fix everything, even human kinds mistakes. But we can not fix ourselves before its to late. 

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On 12/9/2018 at 12:01 AM, bristolboy said:

Isn't it odd how this graph stops at just about 1860. Let's bring it up to date, shall we?

image.png.5baa8ec8fd599b775ea9eef92e51c88d.png

 

      

 

On 12/9/2018 at 1:15 AM, Krataiboy said:

You need to watch this 

 

Excellent video Krataiboy.....  Explains it perfectly....  Thank you  "Lies, Damned Lies, and Global Warming Statistics"    

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7 hours ago, Hummin said:

Hopefully some will be aware of the inaccurate media they so much want us to convert to, is wrong, and have been proved wrong so many

Hopefully some will be aware of the inaccurate media they so much want us to convert to, is wrong, and have been proved wrong so many times by so many sources who is proving them wrong. But still they find new proof of facts, but still same providers in the first place. 

 

They are not willing to see it is the same people behind the Phillip Morris in its time fighting tobacco was dangerous, and government trying to prove tobaccos link to cancer as well they now fighting mankind clima change. Same people who spewing out falsery for cash support with no shame at all. And people want to believe so much, and do not have a clue what they are part of. 

 

But hey, people still belive in creation, so how can human possible manage to harm gods planet? Nature fix everything, even human kinds mistakes. But we can not fix ourselves before its to late. 

 

   Folks here might find this interesting:  

 

     

 

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Climate Science and the Myths of Renewable Energy - FOS Steve Goreham

Steve Goreham is a speaker, an author, a researcher on environmental issues, and an independent columnist. He’s the Executive Director of the Climate Science Coalition of America, a non-political association dedicated to informing about the realities of climate science and energy economics.

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3 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

(Mods: If the following questions are adjudged inappropriate for the public forum, please delete, and kindly let me know so I can submit via the Message facility):

 

Is there a list of these "questionable sources" which ThaiVisa members can access? And by whom, and using what criteria, is a source deemed questionable? Or is this an arbitrary decision left to the discretion of individual Moderators?

    

 

7 hours ago, Hummin said:

Hopefully some will be aware of the inaccurate media they so much want us to convert to, is wrong, and have been proved wrong so many

Hopefully some will be aware of the inaccurate media they so much want us to convert to, is wrong, and have been proved wrong so many times by so many sources who is proving them wrong. But still they find new proof of facts, but still same providers in the first place. 

 

They are not willing to see it is the same people behind the Phillip Morris in its time fighting tobacco was dangerous, and government trying to prove tobaccos link to cancer as well they now fighting mankind clima change. Same people who spewing out falsery for cash support with no shame at all. And people want to believe so much, and do not have a clue what they are part of. 

 

But hey, people still belive in creation, so how can human possible manage to harm gods planet? Nature fix everything, even human kinds mistakes. But we can not fix ourselves before its to late. 

 

       Actually, I agree...    Did you know we have only ten years left to save the planet?  

 

    

 

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All the recent posting by the deniers have links to dubiously sourced videos. Nothing ever in writing. Are they all dyslexic? Do they really expect people to devote hours of their lives to what would take a few minutes if it were put in writing?

And why don't the people who produce these videos ever put anything in writing? I'm guessing because it's a lot easier and quicker to examine and refute falsehoods presented as written words rather than in a video.

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1 hour ago, MaxYakov said:

Climate Science and the Myths of Renewable Energy - FOS Steve Goreham

Steve Goreham is a speaker, an author, a researcher on environmental issues, and an independent columnist. He’s the Executive Director of the Climate Science Coalition of America, a non-political association dedicated to informing about the realities of climate science and energy economics.

"The Climate Science Coalition of America, represented by Steve Goreham was among 22 groups signed on to an open letter asking President Trump to ignore recent criticism of EPA Administrator Scott Pruitt. [22]

In a speech to the U.S. Senate, a group of Democratic senators identified the organizations as front groups for the Koch Brothers and other wealthy donors, nicknamed the “Web of Deceit.” The senators outlined how, in addition to funding from the Koch network, many of the groups use untraceable “dark money” funneled through groups like Donors Capital Fund and Donors Trust to influence legislation, particularly with regards to climate and pollution."

https://www.desmogblog.com/steve-goreham

 

Goreham works for the Heartland Institute which has also published papers "debunking" the link of second hand smoke to heart disease. Before the Heartland Institute stopped revealing who it's donors were, it had received $395,000 from Phillip Morris.

https://www.desmogblog.com/heartland-institute

 

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47 minutes ago, Catoni said:

 

   Folks here might find this interesting:  

 

     

 

At last - the cold, hard facts, data and historically incontrovertible evidence expsing the apocalyptic global warming narrative for what it is: a cynically-manufactured scam, designed to force Western nations to surrender national national sovereignty, hard-won freedoms and our very way of life to a control grid operated by central planners using the UN as a proxy world government.

 

The mythical nightmarish prospect of permanent catastrophic climate change is being cynically employed to accelerate the egregious UN Agenda 21/2030 "sustainable development" plan for control of all the world's resources - including its "human capital"  It is also a pretext for the UN's new Global Compact on Refugees, which will open the floodgates to further waves of mass immigration on an unprecedented scale from Third World countries (see video below).

 

 

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1 minute ago, Krataiboy said:

At last - the cold, hard facts, data and historically incontrovertible evidence expsing the apocalyptic global warming narrative for what it is: a cynically-manufactured scam, designed to force Western nations to surrender national national sovereignty, hard-won freedoms and our very way of life to a control grid operated by central planners using the UN as a proxy world government.

 

The mythical nightmarish prospect of permanent catastrophic climate change is being cynically employed to accelerate the egregious UN Agenda 21/2030 "sustainable development" plan for control of all the world's resources - including its "human capital"  It is also a pretext for the UN's new Global Compact on Refugees, which will open the floodgates to further waves of mass immigration on an unprecedented scale from Third World countries (see video below).

 

 

More tinfoil hat nonsense.

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This is what the world can do!  The  people who were denying the effects of ozone depletion continued denying it until they stopped denying it.  And yes it does take many COP meetings to deal with the complexity of science, politics and multilateral environmental agreements.  

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

At last - the cold, hard facts, data and historically incontrovertible evidence expsing the apocalyptic global warming narrative for what it is: a cynically-manufactured scam, designed to force Western nations to surrender national national sovereignty, hard-won freedoms and our very way of life to a control grid operated by central planners using the UN as a proxy world government.

 

The mythical nightmarish prospect of permanent catastrophic climate change is being cynically employed to accelerate the egregious UN Agenda 21/2030 "sustainable development" plan for control of all the world's resources - including its "human capital"  It is also a pretext for the UN's new Global Compact on Refugees, which will open the floodgates to further waves of mass immigration on an unprecedented scale from Third World countries (see video below).

 

 

A conspiracy of which thousand and thousand of climatologists are active perpetrators. Sounds reasonable.

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5 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

And sometimes it's just fiction:

"The warming is a whopping 0.8 degrees over the past 150 years, a warming that has tapered off to essentially nothing in the last decade and a half."

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12 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And sometimes it's just fiction:

"The warming is a whopping 0.8 degrees over the past 150 years, a warming that has tapered off to essentially nothing in the last decade and a half."

There just ain't no convincing some people.

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Bangkok's Temps - Past 9 Years (Ref Site - World Weather Online):

 

BKK_Temp_Last_9_Years.jpeg.dad921550f498fb93b5c1f79be73747b.jpeg

 

Bangkok actually seems cooler to me in general since I arrived nine years ago because I've acclimated. I used to be comfortable at 27 1/2 degrees C. Now I operate at 29-30 degrees C (saving me and Thai electric generation a lot of consumed Kw hours). My rooms can get into the 30-31 degrees C before I get uncomfortable, nowadays.  FoodLand and the T21 Cinema and other places at 25 degrees C or so is too cool for me to be comfortable in shirt sleeves. Anyway, I digress.

 

I can see (or imagine?) a 1/2 degree C (or so) increasing ramp in those temps over the 9 or 10 years. At the rate it's going, I'll be at room temperature, as they say, before it gets seriously hot (assuming the ramp can be extrapolated into the future). The question I have is how have temps been taken for Bangkok as depicted in the above chart. Were the measuring points insulated or adjusted from increased Bangkok urban sprawl and a host of other dynamics of Bangkok over the past 9 years? I know urban Bangkok is made hotter by motor vehicles and A/C units and, no doubt, other heat sources.

 

Now, where did I put that climate model, anyway? I'm always misplacing it!

 

 

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4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

All the recent posting by the deniers have links to dubiously sourced videos. Nothing ever in writing. Are they all dyslexic? Do they really expect people to devote hours of their lives to what would take a few minutes if it were put in writing?

And why don't the people who produce these videos ever put anything in writing? I'm guessing because it's a lot easier and quicker to examine and refute falsehoods presented as written words rather than in a video.

   Hmmmm..... even with all the cites and references in the videos...(just take a look.... full of references and cites and charts from the NOAA and NASA and the newspapers over the years... and quotes...  .  the Global Warming/Climate Change Alarmists keep their eyes shut tight and hope the facts disappear....     They are incapable of refuting and rebutting the evidence against Alarmism...  

They're going to hold tight to Al "We're Doomed" Gore and James "Fudgin' the Numbers" Hansen and Michael "Hockey Schtick" Mann

   So all they do is ad hominem attacks and throw crap at it and hope something sticks.. 

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2 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Bangkok's Temps - Past 9 Years (Ref Site - World Weather Online):

 

BKK_Temp_Last_9_Years.jpeg.dad921550f498fb93b5c1f79be73747b.jpeg

 

Bangkok actually seems cooler to me in general since I arrived nine years ago because I've acclimated. I used to be comfortable at 27 1/2 degrees C. Now I operate at 29-30 degrees C (saving me and Thai electric generation a lot of consumed Kw hours). My rooms can get into the 30-31 degrees C before I get uncomfortable, nowadays.  FoodLand and the T21 Cinema and other places at 25 degrees C or so is too cool for me to be comfortable in shirt sleeves. Anyway, I digress.

 

I can see (or imagine?) a 1/2 degree C (or so) increasing ramp in those temps over the 9 or 10 years. At the rate it's going, I'll be at room temperature, as they say, before it gets seriously hot (assuming the ramp can be extrapolated into the future). The question I have is how have temps been taken for Bangkok as depicted in the above chart. Were the measuring points insulated or adjusted from increased Bangkok urban sprawl and a host of other dynamics of Bangkok over the past 9 years? I know urban Bangkok is made hotter by motor vehicles and A/C units and, no doubt, other heat sources.

 

Now, where did I put that climate model, anyway? I'm always misplacing it!

 

 

  Ten years is certainly not a long enough data set to determine a climate trend.... You need at the very minimum..thirty years of data...  and even that is really pushing it.. 

    Climate changes........   sometimes fast.. sometimes slow.. sometimes a lot.. sometimes a little.

   The only think that shocks me is that some people are alarmed and terrified by the thought of Climate Change. 

     It's as if they want it to stay at the climate we had on May 17, 1956 at 3:45 in the afternoon... and for it to stay like that and never change.

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4 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

More tinfoil hat nonsense.

Yes Chomper Higgot..... that is exactly what your response is...  tinfoil hat nonsense...  

 

    Now... if you disagree with her..... try to intelligently rebut her and the video. Explain to us why her points are mistaken...tell us your evidence if you're able... (which I seriously doubt.)   Bring a few cites and references....

      Chomper Higgot....  if all you have is ad hominem and insults.... then you've got NOTHING ! ! 

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4 hours ago, ricklev said:

This is what the world can do!  The  people who were denying the effects of ozone depletion continued denying it until they stopped denying it.  And yes it does take many COP meetings to deal with the complexity of science, politics and multilateral environmental agreements.  

 

 

 

  Oh.... you like those COP conferences?  All the elite politicians and celebrities flying in to exotic locations in the world and meeting their fleets of airconditioned limousines ready to take them to their five star luxury hotels.  Their gravy train ! !  Going to their champagne and caviar banquets and laughing and slapping each other on the back... All the while talking about how us lower middle class taxpaying folks have to cut back OUR "elaborate" middle class working lifestyles...how us peons should not even be flying economy ..except maybe if they can hit us with big jumps in flight costs with Carbon Taxes added to the cost of our tickets for the fuel... (How's that working out in France lately?) 

     Here's a COP video for you....... 

 

 

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

And sometimes it's just fiction:

"The warming is a whopping 0.8 degrees over the past 150 years, a warming that has tapered off to essentially nothing in the last decade and a half."

    Exactly.... and that 0.8 degree increase (let's be generous and say 0.85) from 1880 - 2012 ...was following the ending of the L.I.A. which ended approx. 1850.   The L.I.A. was a 550 year bad colder spell with longer, colder winters, shorter growing seasons, failed harvests...  famine....    The Warming/Climate Change Alarmists want to return to that climate I guess...

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17 hours ago, MaxYakov said:

Bangkok's Temps - Past 9 Years (Ref Site - World Weather Online):

 

BKK_Temp_Last_9_Years.jpeg.dad921550f498fb93b5c1f79be73747b.jpeg

 

Bangkok actually seems cooler to me in general since I arrived nine years ago because I've acclimated. I used to be comfortable at 27 1/2 degrees C. Now I operate at 29-30 degrees C (saving me and Thai electric generation a lot of consumed Kw hours). My rooms can get into the 30-31 degrees C before I get uncomfortable, nowadays.  FoodLand and the T21 Cinema and other places at 25 degrees C or so is too cool for me to be comfortable in shirt sleeves. Anyway, I digress.

 

I can see (or imagine?) a 1/2 degree C (or so) increasing ramp in those temps over the 9 or 10 years. At the rate it's going, I'll be at room temperature, as they say, before it gets seriously hot (assuming the ramp can be extrapolated into the future). The question I have is how have temps been taken for Bangkok as depicted in the above chart. Were the measuring points insulated or adjusted from increased Bangkok urban sprawl and a host of other dynamics of Bangkok over the past 9 years? I know urban Bangkok is made hotter by motor vehicles and A/C units and, no doubt, other heat sources.

 

Now, where did I put that climate model, anyway? I'm always misplacing it!

 

 

Actually, the question of urban hot spots bias was scientifically addressed by climate change denialists for a change and answered, too. It's just that the answer didn't please them. They commissioned Richard Muller, an emininent physicist who also had questions about that to put together a dream team of scientists to get to the bottom of the question. He did and determined that climatologists claim that they had accounted for urban hot spots was true. Other issues raised by denialists were addressed as well and Muller's team determined that climatologists had properly accounted for them as well. And the climate denialists, being the principled folks that they are, have pretty much scrubbed Muller's research results from their records.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/30/opinion/the-conversion-of-a-climate-change-skeptic.html

 

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