Is a passbook from Bangkok Bank showing monthly deposits a valid "proof of monthly income"

[Moonlover]

1 hour ago, WorriedNoodle said:

But there would still need to be a verification where the income was coming from (i.e. a pension scheme) otherwise you could just transfer 65k in and out each month and never need more than that? Simplest to just have 800k in for 3 months, no need to prove where that comes from.

If I was able to prove to the British embassy that I have sufficient pension income, I'm equally capable of proving it to TI.

 

[JLCrab]

12 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

If I was able to prove to the British embassy that I have sufficient pension income, I'm equally capable of proving it to TI.

However the British Embassy wanted to look at your documents. Thai IMM maybe does not.

[Thaidream]

Just now, JLCrab said:

However the British Embassy wanted to look at your documents. Thai IMM maybe does not.

Or Maybe they do!!

[JLCrab]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

5 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

However the British Embassy wanted to look at your documents. Thai IMM maybe does not.

Or Maybe they do!!

[Jimmy Bulger]

According to current Thai law your pass book should be fine but it’s still up in the air what immigration will say after the embassy letters are phased out.  It’s looking like it’ll probably just simply be Thai bank statements or pass books nothing is actually changing regarding Thai law so as long as you have the monthly income they require at least 40,000 thousand baht a month or the money saved which is no less than 400,000 thousand baht you should be fine.  Your Bangkok Bank book showing your monthly income should be fine based on the current Thai laws regarding marriage visas.  No Thai law is actually changing it’s only the income letters that are going away next year sometime your monthly income requirement will probably be the same minimum requirement next year unless they make some crazy changes in immigration law which is highly doubtful.  I think it’s a good thing that the income letters are being phased out over next year it’ll save you a trip to the embassy every year and $50 dollars a year.  You should be fine as long as you fall within Thai Immigration Laws pertaining to your specific visa which in your case is a marriage visa.  You’ll be okay just ignore all of the hype you read on some of these forums.  Some of these guys are jumping to conclusions before the changes have even taken effect but so far immigration law hasn’t changed.  The posts in this topic have been surprisingly pretty positive compared to other topics about this subject.  Don’t stress about it I just had my extension done with no problems.  This document is from the Thai Immigration website and it reflects the current Thai law regarding marriage visas so don’t worry dude.  

 

The guy on this forum who you really should trust to take advise from is a guy under the screen name Ubonjoe don’t listen to anyone else except him he knows what he’s talking about, most of the rest of these people are just going by their personal opinions.  Talk to Ubonjoe trust me on that.  

Edited December 9, 2018 by Jimmy Bulger

[owl sees all]

I've just done my 12 month visa (retirement). I was chatting to the agent and she informed me that agents will all be registered next year and they will be responsible for vetting the applicants. Once it actually gets through to immigration it's just a rubber stamp job. The agents are the people we will have to satisfy with the details it seems 

Edited December 9, 2018 by owl sees all

[rickudon]

Currently, i remit my money using a foreign ATM card (fee free, apart from the Thai ATM fee). This has proven to be the the cheapest and most convenient way for me up to now. So i decided to test out an agency who promise fee free foreign transfers (converted by them into baht, at a reasonable rate) I was intending using them in future. However i was hit by a large fee (500 baht) for it to be actually deposited into my Thai bank. I can do 3 ATM withdrawals for that, or even a swift transfer from my home bank to a Thai bank. As this has just happened, no chance yet to find out why (and i WILL be asking). Just another example of the appalling service provided by Thai banks compared to the UK. When i looked at the Thai banks fees, it was updated last month and their were over 4 pages of fees ....

 

(Some people slag off banks in their home countries, but apart from foreign exchange conversions done by them, all the services i use are either free or they PAY ME. In Thailand very little is free)

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

I've just done my 12 month visa (retirement). I was chatting to the agent and she informed me that agents will all be registered next year and they will be responsible for vetting the applicants. Once it actually gets through to immigration it's just a rubber stamp job. The agents are the people we will have to satisfy with the details it seems 

You really can't make this stuff up. Since Immigration can't trust foreign embassies to verify financial statements, they will enroll all the currently unregulated, unregistered and uncoordinated legions of otherwise nondescript and unqualified individuals currently masquerading as 'agents' to do all this honest verification for them. Since the current band of agents make up the rules (and fees) as they go along, I am pretty confident that the broke-assed and impoverished coffin dodger will still get the chance to agree an acceptable fee with the same agent, albeit with 'official' status and still end up doing the same hokey-pokey for the same non-standard procedure... +20% for being done by a 'registered' agent.

[Tom9999]

On 12/8/2018 at 11:14 AM, cleverman said:

I was married to a Thai for 6 years, didn't have a joint account but I let her use my atm card. The account was drained when she took off with another mug. 

That is why you should have more than 1 Bank Account.

One is the Main account and the other for ongoing expenses.

Draining the second will then have little consequences to you...

 

Trust is good but Control is better.

[JLCrab]

5 hours ago, NanLaew said:

You really can't make this stuff up.

Yes you can.

[jacko45k]

9 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I've just done my 12 month visa (retirement). I was chatting to the agent and she informed me that agents will all be registered next year and they will be responsible for vetting the applicants. Once it actually gets through to immigration it's just a rubber stamp job. The agents are the people we will have to satisfy with the details it seems 

Yes we need another unnecessary level of administration taking a cut to increase the costs to those retired here. I recall when the rumour mill got really churning some months back, just prior to the BE's announcement, that one of the rumours was 'agents' would be taken out of the picture as they were a major impediment to the ''no bribes' approach. As things gel it appears they not only got their foot in the door, but have set up their own desks!

Edited December 9, 2018 by jacko45k

[owl sees all]

9 hours ago, NanLaew said:

You really can't make this stuff up. Since Immigration can't trust foreign embassies to verify financial statements, they will enroll all the currently unregulated, unregistered and uncoordinated legions of otherwise nondescript and unqualified individuals currently masquerading as 'agents' to do all this honest verification for them. Since the current band of agents make up the rules (and fees) as they go along, I am pretty confident that the broke-assed and impoverished coffin dodger will still get the chance to agree an acceptable fee with the same agent, albeit with 'official' status and still end up doing the same hokey-pokey for the same non-standard procedure... +20% for being done by a 'registered' agent.

It seems a bit strange to me too. But, I can see the sense in it. Obviously, only 'proper' agents would get to be registered and not the every Tom, Dick or Harry that is doing the bizzo at the present time.

 

Appears that the Immigration department wants an easier life. Just rubber stamping passports and scanning barcodes will make their life easier. Less stressful for them too. That, in turn, will make them more happy to see us, if we need to visit them. Less stress all round. Can't argue with that.

Edited December 10, 2018 by owl sees all

[JackThompson]

11 hours ago, owl sees all said:

I've just done my 12 month visa (retirement). I was chatting to the agent and she informed me that agents will all be registered next year and they will be responsible for vetting the applicants. Once it actually gets through to immigration it's just a rubber stamp job. The agents are the people we will have to satisfy with the details it seems 

Whether this turns out to be accurate or not, I have said, from the beginning, that the point of this embassy-letter routine was to force more extension-applicants agents.  At some offices, agent-apps are immigration's strongly preferred method of granting extensions, for obvious reasons.  Those types never cared if anyone "had the money" or "went to school" (ED extensions), etc. 

 

Whether or not this prediction is accurate, all expats should expect to be forced into the agent-system over time.  That includes those who spend winters here as Tourists, who are increasingly being hassled upon entry at the airports.  Given how greed works, it makes sense that an increasing percentage of foreigners would be targeted for forced-inclusion in the agent/immigration extortion racket.  Maybe agents will have to vet the "money in the bank" letters, too?

 

By forcing more expats to agents, more cover would be provided to those paying agents to fake their financials.  They will still pay extra, of course - to cover the one-day loan and agent/IO split of loot to get the money-seasoning rule waived - but, this will make a future investigation and crackdown on this practice even harder to carry-out, since "everyone" will be using agents.

 

And on the consumer-side, if agents are officially "registered," foreigners can know that their agent-payoff is being split properly within the hierarchy, thus assuaging any fears that they could be inadvertently taken-down by a bust of some IO who was hoarding agent-loot.  This is a good confidence-building move, which will allow many who would be wary of doing something "illegal," to jump happily into the mire.

 

Personnel at offices with little or no agent-activity must have been quite angry at being left out of the agent-money pool.  This was reflected by some offices refusing to do TM-28s - because applicants could be obtaining extensions via agents in other areas, their loot feeding the beast via alternative tentacles, leaving the locals high-and-dry.  A "registered agent" system would help them get in on the action - raising their spirits (and incomes) considerably, and reducing the likelihood of objections to the practice from within the organization.

 

If an accurate prediction, this is great news - especially for the liars and criminals.  For the rest of us, not so much - except to the extent that our legal means of stay via embassy-letters has been undermined by the existing corruption-forces already, so at least an "officially registered and approved corruption" option might remain as an alternative.

[KhunFred]

On 12/8/2018 at 11:28 AM, steve187 said:

a few things come to mind, what nationality are you, what are you using to stay in Thailand at the moment ie. tourist visa, visa exempt etc. 

 

in order to obtain a yearly extension you will need a non imm 'o' visa to start the process.

 

once married you can get a 60 day extension on any entry, 

 

if you are likely to apply for a 1 year extension before end of May i would get an income letter now, 

To answer your question, I am American, I have had extensions of stay for three years now based on a Non-Immigrant O visa based on retirement. I do not need to renew my extension until next October, but I am not waiting until the last minute to take care of this. I am not sure what you mean by a "60 day extension on any entry with a marriage visa". I am not interested in sixty days, I want a year extension, the same as I got with my so-called "retirement visa". I could still get an income affidavit at the outreach, but it would expire before October, so there's no point in going that route. I want a simple, reliable routine EVERY year that I can use to stay here. The juggling crap done by embassies and IO is very difficult for disabled old men like me, who don't need to have their blood-pressure driven into the stratosphere, wondering if I will have 7 days to move to another country or simply be escorted to the airport with the clothes on my back. I have documentation of my 80 thousand baht a month income, up the wazoo, but there are still moronic IO functionaries telling farangs that we need the "income letter". If I could get my fiancee to move out of Thailand, I would take the next available flight to Laos or Philippines. This situation of keeping us in limbo is nearly intolerable for those of us who like to be prepared.

[owl sees all]

27 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Whether this turns out to be accurate or not, I have said, from the beginning, that the point of this embassy-letter routine was to force more extension-applicants agents.  At some offices, agent-apps are immigration's strongly preferred method of granting extensions, for obvious reasons.  Those types never cared if anyone "had the money" or "went to school" (ED extensions), etc. 

 

Whether or not this prediction is accurate, all expats should expect to be forced into the agent-system over time.  That includes those who spend winters here as Tourists, who are increasingly being hassled upon entry at the airports.  Given how greed works, it makes sense that an increasing percentage of foreigners would be targeted for forced-inclusion in the agent/immigration extortion racket.  Maybe agents will have to vet the "money in the bank" letters, too?

 

By forcing more expats to agents, more cover would be provided to those paying agents to fake their financials.  They will still pay extra, of course - to cover the one-day loan and agent/IO split of loot to get the money-seasoning rule waived - but, this will make a future investigation and crackdown on this practice even harder to carry-out, since "everyone" will be using agents.

 

And on the consumer-side, if agents are officially "registered," foreigners can know that their agent-payoff is being split properly within the hierarchy, thus assuaging any fears that they could be inadvertently taken-down by a bust of some IO who was hoarding agent-loot.  This is a good confidence-building move, which will allow many who would be wary of doing something "illegal," to jump happily into the mire.

 

Personnel at offices with little or no agent-activity must have been quite angry at being left out of the agent-money pool.  This was reflected by some offices refusing to do TM-28s - because applicants could be obtaining extensions via agents in other areas, their loot feeding the beast via alternative tentacles, leaving the locals high-and-dry.  A "registered agent" system would help them get in on the action - raising their spirits (and incomes) considerably, and reducing the likelihood of objections to the practice from within the organization.

 

If an accurate prediction, this is great news - especially for the liars and criminals.  For the rest of us, not so much - except to the extent that our legal means of stay via embassy-letters has been undermined by the existing corruption-forces already, so at least an "officially registered and approved corruption" option might remain as an alternative.

3

You have obviously thought this through Jack and I agree with your assessment. 

 

So often we fail to see the other side's (immigration) picture. They are human, just like us, and want a stress-free life. Obviously pocketing a little dosh on the way helps them achieve more happiness.

 

And for us farang,, well we don't have to worry anymore. Just hand over the baht and get the stay. Easy-peasy!!

[JLCrab]

So if the "registered agent" scenario is true, does that mean you get leave a copy of all your personal financial data as to pensions, bank accounts, investments, oil & gas royalty statements, etc. necessary to prove the "not less than" 65K baht per month with the now not but soon-to-be 'registered agent'?

[JackThompson]

16 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

I do not need to renew my extension until next October, but I am not waiting until the last minute to take care of this. I am not sure what you mean by a "60 day extension on any entry with a marriage visa". I am not interested in sixty days, I want a year extension, the same as I got with my so-called "retirement visa".

I am in a similar situation, and have the same concerns. 

 

But, by next October, we should know a lot more about what will be accepted (or not) to prove income.  Also, as we can apply 30-days in advance, this provides some advance-notice if there will be a problem with one's application.  Further, if you are married to a Thai, you can get a 60-day extension to "visit your wife."  By applying in advance, and having the "visit wife" option in reserve, one has a total of 90-days (starting next September, in your case) to solve any surprise-problem that might arise.  While far from ideal, this beats "7 days to leave the country."

 

Also, once we have more solid info from others who have attempted extensions based on income, you could inquire at your office to verify what has worked for them will work for you.

 

As a last resort - what I referred to above, paying off immigration via an agent - which seems to be what they are really after, in any case.

[JLCrab]

19 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

As a last resort

... go back to your country of passport and get an O-A from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

[JackThompson]

12 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

... go back to your country of passport and get an O-A from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

For those going anyway, for other reasons, it's a good solution.  If it were still available in Hawaii for Americans, I'd consider it - but they took away that permission from the honorary-consulate there.  All the way back to the mainland is too far to ship myself in an aluminum tube for the sole purpose of delivering paperwork. 

Logically, we should be able to apply at a Thai embassy in Vientiane or KL, and they would electronically-transfer anything which needed to be verified to the Thai embassy in our home-countries - perhaps for an additional fee.  Even double the fee would be well worth it.  But since the purpose of the exercise is to make this as difficult as possible, in order to force us to use agents here to line-pockets, that solution is unlikely to come to pass.

[JLCrab]

44 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

For those going anyway, for other reasons, it's a good solution. 

I go anyway and would then especially do so.

 

As far as the current agents becoming 'registered' agents, I would say:

 

Once a bunko artist, always a bunko artist.

Edited December 10, 2018 by JLCrab

[BlueSkyCowboy]

I have a couple million BT in a Bank account. For the retirement visa I need copies of the book for 12 months and at least 800000 for 3 months

[BertM]

25 minutes ago, BlueSkyCowboy said:

For the retirement visa I need copies of the book for 12 months and at least 800000 for 3 months

Yes... your bankbook with bank letter. Don't know if TI accepts only copies.

Edited December 10, 2018 by BertM

[KhunFred]

Amazing. Thailand is the country with the best anal cleansing technology in the world, but deciphering documents that show monthly income in a clear and organized fashion is asking a bit much of IO. I would suggest outsourcing income documentation to the folks who designed bum guns.

[KhunFred]

3 hours ago, JLCrab said:

... go back to your country of passport and get an O-A from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Sure.....I'll just pull three thousand dollars out of my ASS and fly back to America. Are you related to the Rockefellers or Shinawatras by any chance??? Most ordinary human beings are NOT here because they can shit out loads of money whenever they need it. That is a Thai mindset The number of people on Thai visa who have NO concept of how ordinary low income people live is simply astonishing. The standard advice is "well, if you don't like it here, go back to your OWN country. Good luck on that. America and other countries are hellishly expensive compared to any developing country.

[Pattaya46]

49 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Amazing. Thailand is the country with the best anal cleansing technology in the world, but deciphering documents that show monthly income in a clear and organized fashion is asking a bit much of IO. //

Seriously!

You make the supposition that Thai Immigration would not want to check your documents, and then you criticize Thailand on this supposition!

They certainly never said they would not be able or willing to do that. They just in fact said nothing about it, but even "nothing" is enough for some people to criticize them... 

Amazing ThaiVisa members 

 

Edited December 10, 2018 by Pattaya46

[JLCrab]

21 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Sure.....I'll just pull three thousand dollars out of my ASS and fly back to America

The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs makes available an O-A visa good in practice for an almost 2 years stay in Thailand at its Embassy and consulates in the USA. If someone can avail themselves of that option, fine. If not, find something else.

[stevenl]

54 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Amazing. Thailand is the country with the best anal cleansing technology in the world, but deciphering documents that show monthly income in a clear and organized fashion is asking a bit much of IO. I would suggest outsourcing income documentation to the folks who designed bum guns.

It was outsourced to embassies, but they can't confirm the income. But you expect Thai immigration can do what your embassy can not, even though the documents will be in your own language and setup?

[Pattaya46]

14 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs makes available an O-A visa good in practice for an almost 2 years stay in Thailand at its Embassy and consulates in the USA. //

Available? Visa Non O-A are not always easy to get.  In my country a Visa O-A requires 800'000B in a Thai bank from the second one… 

[JLCrab]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Available? Visa Non O-A are not always easy to get.  In my country a Visa O-A requires 800'000B in a Thai bank from the second one…

From Casablanca (1942) Rick (Humphrey Bogart) :

Yes, well, everybody in Casablanca has problems. Yours may work out.

[jacko45k]

7 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Available? Visa Non O-A are not always easy to get.  In my country a Visa O-A requires 800'000B in a Thai bank from the second one… 

You mean the same as you need for the first one in a local bank, or for an extension in Thailand?