PM May should renegotiate Brexit deal if loses vote in parliament: Johnson

[malagateddy]

Just google it. This is what I found in a few seconds:
the largest single item is the UK’s share of the EU’s unpaid bills
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/29/brexit-divorce-bill-how-much-is-it-and-what-is-it-for
 
And these unpaid bills you would obviously pay one way or the other.
 

Yes..of course..interest free over 200 years..play the eu at their own game[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[OneMoreFarang]

And now a delay. Does anybody think 100 people will change their minds within a few days?

Or does anybody think now the EU admits that it had those unicorns all the time but only now are the willing to get them out?

Vote, lose, just get it done.

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And now a delay. Does anybody think 100 people will change their minds within a few days?

Or does anybody think now the EU admits that it had those unicorns all the time but only now are the willing to get them out?

Vote, lose, just get it done.

 

Only a fool would try to predict what is going to happen, nobody knows, suffice to say, 'he who laughs last, laughs the longest. 

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, 7by7 said:

 Yaxley-Lennon, with his convictions for violence and fraud, and his gauleiters are well known for vastly inflating the numbers who attend their rallies and using carefully choreographed and edited videos to support their lying figures.

 

Anyone who thinks this thug represents the majority of Brexiteers is seriously deluded. Even Farage and Nuttall have disowned UKIP now Batten has accepted Yaxley-Lennon and his cohorts.

You could well be right but everything I have seen points to MSM/Spooksville blatantly disinforming the general public & I can't help wondering why. I seriously considered accepting their call to sign up yesterday, but only cos I'm not entirely sure that I fully support their current direction and want to see ferages next move first.

[sotsira]

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Ok, I understand your point.

 

But is that what the people voted for? As far as I remember the Brexiters didn't tell the people first we will crash and that will really hurt but then, after many years of negotiations, things might get better again. The Brexiters promised something like: It will all be easy because the EU needs us so much more than we need them. We will have all the advantages of being in the EU but we are out. That was what the Brexiters promised and that is what people voted for.

 

If you think they really want WTO rules then you should support a 2nd referendum with the choices: a) WTO rules, b) May's deal, c) remain. Now people know so much better what to expect let them vote based on their new acquired knowledge.

The people voted to leave the European Union, it's in black & white on the ballot paper.

That means leave on WTO Rules it doesn't mean leave with a trade deal in place or an agreement or treaty, it's that simple

leave the EU.

After that happens the UK can be free to do as it wishes regarding trade deals, immigration etc, etc. 

That's what the 17.4 M people VOTED FOR!

[bannork]

2 minutes ago, sotsira said:

The people voted to leave the European Union, it's in black & white on the ballot paper.

That means leave on WTO Rules it doesn't mean leave with a trade deal in place or an agreement or treaty, it's that simple

leave the EU.

After that happens the UK can be free to do as it wishes regarding trade deals, immigration etc, etc. 

That's what the 17.4 M people VOTED FOR!

After that happens the UK can be free to do as it wishes regarding trade deals, immigration etc,

How free is the UK to pursue trade deals as it wishes?

 

 

 

[dunroaming]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And now a delay. Does anybody think 100 people will change their minds within a few days?

Or does anybody think now the EU admits that it had those unicorns all the time but only now are the willing to get them out?

Vote, lose, just get it done.

 

The EU have come back and said that they are not going to re-open negotiations.  As they said, they have spent one and a half years of negotiating and have finally got all countries to agree and it has been signed off by them and the UK.  They have never flip  flopped and have always been consistent.

 

So given that, where now?  If May cannot get any more concessions and has delayed the vote because she knows she will lose it by a landslide then where can she go from here?  Statement due in the next hour, should be interesting.

[dunroaming]

34 minutes ago, sotsira said:

The people voted to leave the European Union, it's in black & white on the ballot paper.

That means leave on WTO Rules it doesn't mean leave with a trade deal in place or an agreement or treaty, it's that simple

leave the EU.

After that happens the UK can be free to do as it wishes regarding trade deals, immigration etc, etc. 

That's what the 17.4 M people VOTED FOR!

If only it were that simple then that is what the government would do.  But to leave with no deal would be economic suicide and for any politician to sanction that it would be political suicide as well.

 

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Somehow you forget the part that the Brexiters promised cake, cherries and unicorns. The EU does not have them. Nobody will be able to get from the EU what the Brexiters promised. It's not available, not now and not tomorrow or anytime soon. Is that so difficult to understand?

Yes it is since no Brexiteers were in charge of the negotiations AND had the final word. The PM Teresa May had the final word which is why so many people quit.

[sotsira]

32 minutes ago, bannork said:

After that happens the UK can be free to do as it wishes regarding trade deals, immigration etc,

How free is the UK to pursue trade deals as it wishes?

 

 

 

Totally free to do deals with whoever it wishes without the EU shackles.

That's the whole point of leaving the customs union & common market.

 

[billd766]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Knives are being sharpened!

I believe that France has some tumbrils and a spare Madame La Guillotine, if they are not going to be used for Macron, that they would rent to us.

[bannork]

7 minutes ago, sotsira said:

Totally free to do deals with whoever it wishes without the EU shackles.

That's the whole point of leaving the customs union & common market.

 

I read recently WTO deals require the consent of all partners involved, which maybe involve many countries.

As for one to one deals, is any major economy such as USA going to give us a good deal when our economy is so much smaller than theirs? 

[dunroaming]

Pound down after May delays vote.

16 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Yes it is since no Brexiteers were in charge of the negotiations AND had the final word. The PM Teresa May had the final word which is why so many people quit.

They didn't quit because they couldn't get the deal that had been wrongly promised?  May appointed committed Brexiteers to do the negotiating.  Even the cretin Raab admitted that we would be better off staying in rather than the negotiated deal, that he voted in favour of at the final cabinet meeting!

[mommysboy]

Brexit can only really be fulfilled by leaving on WTO terms.  Any compromise deal will hit the rocks since there really is not a compromise solution.  Leavers should be free to at least follow there preferred option since they won the vote. Their deal should then be put to Parliament.  If Parliament rejects it, then the only option is to put it to the people for confirmation.

[sotsira]

23 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

If only it were that simple then that is what the government would do.  But to leave with no deal would be economic suicide and for any politician to sanction that it would be political suicide as well.

 

 

This government doesn't want to Brexit otherwise they would 

have done things very differently in the last 2 years.

 

It wouldn't be economic suicide, In 2017, 56% of the UK's exports were on WTO terms and 47% of imports. 

 

It would also give the UK a massive bargaining chip towards a quick and easy trade deal with the EU as they would lose out more than we would.

Don't listen to much to all the political propaganda backed by the media. 

[mommysboy]

5 minutes ago, sotsira said:

This government doesn't want to Brexit otherwise they would 

have done things very differently in the last 2 years.

 

It wouldn't be economic suicide, In 2017, 56% of the UK's exports were on WTO terms and 47% of imports. 

 

It would also give the UK a massive bargaining chip towards a quick and easy trade deal with the EU as they would lose out more than we would.

Don't listen to much to all the political propaganda backed by the media. 

 

It's Parliament that is the sticking point, surely?

[Basil B]

 

Quote

 

EU Commission: 'We will not renegotiate'

EU policy specialist tweets

Social embed from twitter

 

Mark Johnston @MarkJohnstonLD

 

 

Commission: “We will not renegotiate."

 

190

14:12 - 10 Dec 2018

 

192 people are talking about this

 

 

 

The door is closed...

[bkkcanuck8]

1 hour ago, sotsira said:

The people voted to leave the European Union, it's in black & white on the ballot paper.

That means leave on WTO Rules it doesn't mean leave with a trade deal in place or an agreement or treaty, it's that simple

leave the EU.

After that happens the UK can be free to do as it wishes regarding trade deals, immigration etc, etc. 

That's what the 17.4 M people VOTED FOR!

The sum of all the trade gains by being outside of the EU will not make up for the loss of some trade ground to the EU.   Trade is often driven by proximity and familiarity (or low cost - but generally if that is the case it would go to countries that are actually low cost).  The driving force behind leaving the EU has more to do with the four freedoms (i.e. the protecting of part of the economy - mainly labour services) -- but not accepting that when you take something off the table the other side will remove other things from the table as well.  The belief that the UK would be able to maintain the relationship with the EU completely without being a member of the EU - was never possible.  There really are only 3 basic models: CETA (trade agreement only), being a member of the EU or being completely out.  The agreement as it stands now was always going to be a transitory agreement in one direction or another.  (the Norway option is no option since it is basically taking what the UK has now - and giving up representation - but accepting everything that is decided in the EU).

 

Any trade agreement in itself is a surrender of some sovereignty, sovereignty in a world that is so interconnected is an illusion.

 

There really is nothing to renegotiate - and those that think they are are not being realistic...  Any 'movement' that looks like it is some change or renegotiation - is more than likely just going to be a PR move - nothing of substance.

[bristolboy]

9 minutes ago, sotsira said:

This government doesn't want to Brexit otherwise they would 

have done things very differently in the last 2 years.

 

It wouldn't be economic suicide, In 2017, 56% of the UK's exports were on WTO terms and 47% of imports. 

 

It would also give the UK a massive bargaining chip towards a quick and easy trade deal with the EU as they would lose out more than we would.

Don't listen to much to all the political propaganda backed by the media. 

I just understand how people can persist in the defective math reasoning that lies behind this statement. Yes the EU exports more to the UK than the UK exports to the EU. But EU exports are spread out over a conbined GDP that's 6 times as big as the UK's. So the impact per capita is going to be a lot less. What's so hard to understand about that?

[dunroaming]

15 minutes ago, sotsira said:

This government doesn't want to Brexit otherwise they would 

have done things very differently in the last 2 years.

 

It wouldn't be economic suicide, In 2017, 56% of the UK's exports were on WTO terms and 47% of imports. 

 

It would also give the UK a massive bargaining chip towards a quick and easy trade deal with the EU as they would lose out more than we would.

Don't listen to much to all the political propaganda backed by the media. 

Then why hasn't the government gone for it, because they can't get any other deal agreed?  More to the point why hasn't there been a leadership challenge by the Brexiteers like Johnson and JRM to take us out of the EU with no-deal?  The leadership is there for the taking but nobody wants it.

[mommysboy]

11 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

The sum of all the trade gains by being outside of the EU will not make up for the loss of some trade ground to the EU.   Trade is often driven by proximity and familiarity (or low cost - but generally if that is the case it would go to countries that are actually low cost).  The driving force behind leaving the EU has more to do with the four freedoms (i.e. the protecting of part of the economy - mainly labour services) -- but not accepting that when you take something off the table the other side will remove other things from the table as well.  The belief that the UK would be able to maintain the relationship with the EU completely without being a member of the EU - was never possible.  There really are only 3 basic models: CETA (trade agreement only), being a member of the EU or being completely out.  The agreement as it stands now was always going to be a transitory agreement in one direction or another.  (the Norway option is no option since it is basically taking what the UK has now - and giving up representation - but accepting everything that is decided in the EU).

 

Any trade agreement in itself is a surrender of some sovereignty, sovereignty in a world that is so interconnected is an illusion.

 

There really is nothing to renegotiate - and those that think they are are not being realistic...  Any 'movement' that looks like it is some change or renegotiation - is more than likely just going to be a PR move - nothing of substance.

This is not a rational issue.  Of course there is no economic case for Brexit, but you are missing the point of what Leavers want.  There is nothing to renegotiate you are right- the deal is dead.

[melvinmelvin]

27 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Brexit can only really be fulfilled by leaving on WTO terms.  Any compromise deal will hit the rocks since there really is not a compromise solution.  Leavers should be free to at least follow there preferred option since they won the vote. Their deal should then be put to Parliament.  If Parliament rejects it, then the only option is to put it to the people for confirmation.

there is no such thing as leaving eu on wto terms,

why on earth do you complicate further already complicated matters with stuff that does not exist

 

if uk eventually will leave  eu it will be on eu/uk agreed terms,

wto has nothing to do with this / wto is a non issue in this business#

 

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, melvinmelvin said:

there is no such thing as leaving eu on wto terms,

why on earth do you complicate further already complicated matters with stuff that does not exist

 

if uk eventually will leave  eu it will be on eu/uk agreed terms,

wto has nothing to do with this / wto is a non issue in this business#

 

Confused surely?  UK has the option not to agree a trade deal with the EU- popularly referred as 'no deal'.  In which case it would revert to the WTO rules which most of the trading world operates on.

 

 

[melvinmelvin]

25 minutes ago, Basil B said:

 

 

The door is closed...

I dont think the door is closed, its ajar,

during a few days after eu heads of states gave their political nod to the deal

several pms expressed in interviews that changes could be envisaged if uk parliament said no.

 

what barnier juncker tusk says doesnt really count if heads of states says dance, they dance

 

 

 

[dunroaming]

May's statement made and she has just kicked the can a bit further down the road.  Still trying to push through the only deal she has even though the EU has said the negotiations or done. 

[7by7]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

I'd vote for him (Yaxley-Lennon).

 That doesn't surprise one bit.

 

4 hours ago, BritManToo said:

As for violence and fraud, how many did Blair kill in his search for WMDs?

I don't trust him either, neither would I vote for him. He and Yaxley-Lennon are both chancers, except Blair has the intelligence to be better at it.

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Confused surely?  UK has the option not to agree a trade deal with the EU- popularly referred as 'no deal'.  In which case it would revert to the WTO rules which most of the trading world operates on.

 

 

not confused at all

you introduce foreign concepts in this business

 

leaving on wto terms is NOT on the table for uk/eu negotiations

 

leaving on nafta terms or asean terms is about as meaningful, also not releveant to eu/uk

 

uk leaving eu will be on eu/uk terms

 

[7by7]

2 hours ago, evadgib said:

You could well be right but everything I have seen points to MSM/Spooksville blatantly disinforming the general public & I can't help wondering why. I seriously considered accepting their call to sign up yesterday, but only cos I'm not entirely sure that I fully support their current direction and want to see ferages next move first.

 Perhaps you could provide us all with a link to the independent information you have seen which convinces you a convicted fraudster and known liar is to be believed over numerous media outlets from all parts of the political spectrum; left and right wing, Remain and Brexit.

 

Even the ultra pro Brexit, anti May Sun only puts attendees at Yaxley-Lennon's demonstration in the thousands rather than the tens of thousands he claims!

 

 

[bkkcanuck8]

20 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

not confused at all

you introduce foreign concepts in this business

 

leaving on wto terms is NOT on the table for uk/eu negotiations

 

leaving on nafta terms or asean terms is about as meaningful, also not releveant to eu/uk

 

uk leaving eu will be on eu/uk terms

 

WTO terms is no-deal hard Brexit.  After leaving with no-deal you are free to trade under the lower standard of WTO until such time as you can negotiate better terms bilaterally... but if the exit was no-deal brexit - there likely won't be better terms than WTO with the EU for a while (and it would still be worse than what was negotiated).

[bkkcanuck8]

36 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

Confused surely?  UK has the option not to agree a trade deal with the EU- popularly referred as 'no deal'.  In which case it would revert to the WTO rules which most of the trading world operates on.

 

 

Most of the trading world has trade agreements with their most important trading partners...  which is often their neighbours...