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May is said to withdraw parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal


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1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

Quote: In 2018, Somerset Capital opened an investment fund in Dublin. A prospectus for the new business listed Brexit as one of the risks, as it could cause "considerable uncertainty". Rees-Mogg, who is a partner of the business but does not make investment decisions, defended the move, stating: "The decision to launch the fund was nothing whatsoever to do with Brexit".

 

Is or is that not a conflict of interest? As well as not being in accordance with reality. The 'honourable' MP's statements (as Chairman of the ERG) are as bad as Trump's rhetoric.

You don't like JRM I understand.

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22 hours ago, dunroaming said:

The difference between the 1975 referendum and the 2016 one is that the negotiating was done before the vote in the 1975 one, so was based on facts, whereas the 2016 one was voted for based on fantasy promises.   That is the simple truth.

 

However all the bickering doesn't matter a jot to the outcome that will eventually come.  This is political and without a peoples vote we will continue to be lead by the nose and have our future decided by the political ambitions of fools and charlatans. 

A bigger difference is that the then EEC is now the EU and it's controlling political aims are now far more evident. Another big difference is that a large group of people have had over 40 years to make their own judgement on the EEC/EC/EU - these are obviously the older voters that several morbid remainers wish to see gone - but they are the ones who really know the difference!  

 

Few of the facts about the political nature of the EEC/EU were ever revealed on a broad scale before the series of treaties were signed. The simple truth is that Heath deceived the British people in 1972 and only just managed to get a parliamentary vote to get in, in the first place. This deception continued in 1975.

 

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4 hours ago, Watchful said:

Well, clearly the mayor of London is against Brexit. He thinks the UK needs more "peace loving" Muslims.

 

And as every leaver knows, brexit and Muslims are one and the same.

 

I moved up to Sheffield in the early 80's and part of the city was virtually a no go area for white people, even the police feared to tread. Of course all the fault of the EU?

Fast forward to the 2000's and Burnley was torn apart because the EU? had refused planning permission for a 4th mosque, many other areas had similar problems. Then we had the Rotherham sex scandal, police knew there was a problem but backed off as the race issue had become so toxic, another EU problem? There are some very good reasons why certain areas of the country have a negative perception of immigration policy but it must be kept in perspective.

The rhetoric over the brexit issue has become so intense people have lost track of who was responsible for what.

If you have an broken arm and a cold, is trying to cure the cold the most appropriate course of treatment.

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20 hours ago, rixalex said:

 

Didn't the Chancellor of the Exchequer mention something about there needing to be a emergency (read punishment) budget immediately after a vote to leave?

 

This threat would have potentially swayed more voters than something said or promised by a leaver, because Osbourne wasn't talking about what he would do hypothetically, IF he was the Chancellor, he WAS the Chancellor and he WAS in government, and so therefore if he said there would need to be an emergency budget, most people would probably think that that is exactly what would happen.

Exactly.  This was by far the worst lie told during the run up to the referendum IMO - and as it was proven to be an outright lie after the referendum result, he was forced out of his job.

 

To look on the bright side, I suspect most voters realised that his 'promised punishment budget' was nothing other than fear propaganda, and probably annoyed a few into voting leave! ????

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21 hours ago, sandyf said:

And as every leaver knows, brexit and Muslims are one and the same.

 

I moved up to Sheffield in the early 80's and part of the city was virtually a no go area for white people, even the police feared to tread. Of course all the fault of the EU?

Fast forward to the 2000's and Burnley was torn apart because the EU? had refused planning permission for a 4th mosque, many other areas had similar problems. Then we had the Rotherham sex scandal, police knew there was a problem but backed off as the race issue had become so toxic, another EU problem? There are some very good reasons why certain areas of the country have a negative perception of immigration policy but it must be kept in perspective.

The rhetoric over the brexit issue has become so intense people have lost track of who was responsible for what.

If you have an broken arm and a cold, is trying to cure the cold the most appropriate course of treatment.

One comment, from one individual, immediately twisted to be the belief of "every leaver". Typical bull. 

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There is and really always has been only a 10-15% minority of British people, who really wanted Britain to exit the EU. 

 

These people were hugely loud, and their voices were multiplied by the rather self promoting medias in the UK. 

 

 

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On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:47 AM, rixalex said:

 

Didn't the Chancellor of the Exchequer mention something about there needing to be a emergency (read punishment) budget immediately after a vote to leave?

 

This threat would have potentially swayed more voters than something said or promised by a leaver, because Osbourne wasn't talking about what he would do hypothetically, IF he was the Chancellor, he WAS the Chancellor and he WAS in government, and so therefore if he said there would need to be an emergency budget, most people would probably think that that is exactly what would happen.

 He and his Labour predecessor warned of possibilities based on projections from  the Institute of Fiscal Studies should the UK leave. 

 

Boris and his cohorts made definite statements they knew to be untrue.

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On 12/13/2018 at 12:32 PM, oilinki said:

There is and really always has been only a 10-15% minority of British people, who really wanted Britain to exit the EU. 

 

These people were hugely loud, and their voices were multiplied by the rather self promoting medias in the UK. 

 

 

Project Bullshine continues.....................

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There is and really always has been only a 10-15% minority of British people, who really wanted Britain to exit the EU. 
 
These people were hugely loud, and their voices were multiplied by the rather self promoting medias in the UK. 
 
 
Very strange comment by such an intelligent chap as yourself.
Please explain why 17.4 MILLION people voted LEAVE???

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4 hours ago, rixalex said:


 


So it seems like the remain promises/threats that haven't come to pass are conveniently written off as honest mistakes.


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

And that's precisely why so many of us have no interest in 'experts' opinions.... 

 

They proved their bias before the referendum - and continue with the same 'arguments', as if their previous 'arguments' were anything close to accurate ????!

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51 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

And that's precisely why so many of us have no interest in 'experts' opinions.... 

 

They proved their bias before the referendum - and continue with the same 'arguments', as if their previous 'arguments' were anything close to accurate ????!

arguments like the Brexit bus? :smile:

 

brexit-bus.jpg

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1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

And that's precisely why so many of us have no interest in 'experts' opinions.... 

 

They proved their bias before the referendum - and continue with the same 'arguments', as if their previous 'arguments' were anything close to accurate ????!

 

6 minutes ago, Naam said:

arguments like the Brexit bus? :smile:

 

brexit-bus.jpg

Please don't reduce yourself to that level, I thought you were more intelligent than that.

 

Argue the point made, rather than coming up with the same old trash....

 

I'm willing to accept that the odd stupid person genuinely belived that the slogan meant that the money saved would be spent entirely on the NHS - in the same way as I believe the odd stupid person believed Osborne's promised punishment budget.....

 

As a reminder... my point was:-

 

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4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Please don't reduce yourself to that level, I thought you were more intelligent than that.

 

Argue the point made, rather than coming up with the same old trash....

 

I'm willing to accept that the odd stupid person genuinely belived that the slogan meant that the money saved would be spent entirely on the NHS - in the same way as I believe the odd stupid person believed Osborne's promised punishment budget.....

Sure, it was worded that way with no intent to deceive. They just happened to juxtapose the factoid with the promise of more funds for NHS.  And it also wasn't trying to fool the UK public into believing that the cost to the UK of EU membership was a net 350 million per week.

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9 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Sure, it was worded that way with no intent to deceive. They just happened to juxtapose the factoid with the promise of more funds for NHS.  And it also wasn't trying to fool the UK public into believing that the cost to the UK of EU membership was a net 350 million per week.

The brexit bus is always the main 'lie' argument of remainers.  Funny how they forget to mention Osborne's promised punishment budget - and he was a member of the govt.!

 

And sacked immediately after the referendum result as his lie was immediately proven to be a lie.....

 

A bit unfair, as the biggest lie has been proven to be Cameron's. 'We will enact your decision'....????

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On 12/12/2018 at 1:25 PM, vogie said:

You don't like JRM I understand.

I don't like or trust JRM either.  He's v. intelligent and runs rings around the rubbish spouted by remainers - but I've no doubt he's looking after his own personal interests....

 

And that's the problem.  There's not one, single politician that I trust to actually respect the intention behind the referendum result ☹️.

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2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:
2 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Sure, it was worded that way with no intent to deceive. They just happened to juxtapose the factoid with the promise of more funds for NHS.  And it also wasn't trying to fool the UK public into believing that the cost to the UK of EU membership was a net 350 million per week.

The brexit bus is always the main 'lie' argument of remainers.  Funny how they forget to mention Osborne's promised punishment budget - and he was a member of the govt.!

 

And sacked immediately after the referendum result as his lie was immediately proven to be a lie.....

 

A bit unfair, as the biggest lie has been proven to be Cameron's. 'We will enact your decision'....????

bus or no bus the £350mm per week (£18.2bb) was a blatant lie. here's the beef from Uk's "Office for National Statistics":

https://www.ons.gov.uk/.../theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

 

Quote

Using EC data that includes credits from the EU to UK public and private sectors, the UK’s average annual net contribution on this wider basis for the years 2012 to 2016 was £8.1 billion.

no more palaver please.

 

 

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3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

The brexit bus is always the main 'lie' argument of remainers.  Funny how they forget to mention Osborne's promised punishment budget - and he was a member of the govt.!

 

And sacked immediately after the referendum result as his lie was immediately proven to be a lie.....

 

A bit unfair, as the biggest lie has been proven to be Cameron's. 'We will enact your decision'....????

Before you were saying that the Brexiters didn't practice to deceive, and now you're claiming that the Remainers deceived, too.  Do you see a discrepancy there?

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Before you were saying that the Brexiters didn't practice to deceive, and now you're claiming that the Remainers deceived, too.  Do you see a discrepancy there?
Actually this line of discussion started with a challenge by 7by7 for a single lie told by the remain side to be quoted, since he seems to think the deceit is one-sided.

I think most people agree liberties were taken with the truth on both sides, although I'd argue that it's a more serious matter when those liberties taken were being spoken by the government of the day.

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On ‎12‎/‎17‎/‎2018 at 7:14 AM, rixalex said:


 


So it seems like the remain promises/threats that haven't come to pass are conveniently written off as honest mistakes.


Sent from my SM-G610F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 You obviously have difficulty in understanding the difference between a statement which those making it say is a fact and a projection of something which might happen in a worst case scenario.

 

Or maybe you do know the difference, but are hoping that others don't!

 

Of course, projections, good and bad, of what might happen post Brexit cannot be fully judged until some time after Brexit has actually happened, and are dependent upon what sort of deal, if any, we make with the EU for the future.

 

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On 12/17/2018 at 10:46 PM, Naam said:

bus or no bus the £350mm per week (£18.2bb) was a blatant lie. here's the beef from Uk's "Office for National Statistics":

better swallow your beef

 

£350 million per week is roughly what the UK pays the EU excluding the rebate.

Factoring in the rebate the UK pays around £250 million per week, but it doesn't have control of the 100m difference.

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

 

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1 hour ago, My Thai Life said:

better swallow your beef

 

£350 million per week is roughly what the UK pays the EU excluding the rebate.

Factoring in the rebate the UK pays around £250 million per week, but it doesn't have control of the 100m difference.

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

 

From your own link 

 

The UK doesn’t pay or "send to Brussels" this higher figure of £18.6 billion, or anything equivalent per week or per day. The rebate is applied straight away (its size is calculated based on the previous year's contributions), so the UK never contributes this much.

 

So we never send the rebate to Brussels - we have complete control of it!

 

The money we don't have control over is the extra money we get back from Europe 

 

The government then gets some of that money back, mainly through payments to farmers and for poorer areas of the country such as Wales and Cornwall.

In 2017, the UK's ‘public sector receipts’ are estimated to be £4 billion.

 

The Treasury figures note payments the EU makes directly to the private sector, such as research grants. In 2015, these were worth an estimated £1.5 billion, so including them could reduce our net contribution further still.

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On 12/17/2018 at 10:46 PM, Naam said:

bus or no bus the £350mm per week (£18.2bb) was a blatant lie. here's the beef from Uk's "Office for National Statistics":

https://www.ons.gov.uk/.../theukcontributiontotheeubudget/2017-10-31

 

no more palaver please.

 

 

In 2016, the UK government spent £814.6 billion. The uk net contribution to the EU was around 8-9 billion. That's around one percent.

 

Meanwhile, the British pound has lost a purchasing power of 150 billion ( only money base M2) on the world stage in 2018.

 

A country that can afford such an economic stupidity,

This country is doing too well.

 

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 You obviously have difficulty in understanding the difference between a statement which those making it say is a fact and a projection of something which might happen in a worst case scenario.
 
Or maybe you do know the difference, but are hoping that others don't!
 
Of course, projections, good and bad, of what might happen post Brexit cannot be fully judged until some time after Brexit has actually happened, and are dependent upon what sort of deal, if any, we make with the EU for the future.
 
I think YOU are the one with the understanding issue.

"Worst case scenario"? You speak as if there were multiple outcomes possible on the eve of the vote. Of course there were just two. A vote to remain or a vote to leave.

The chancellor stated that, "there will have to be an emergency budget if the UK votes to leave the EU".

Not "there may be".

Not "we'll have to wait and see and assess things".

But, "THERE WILL HAVE TO BE".

That isn't a projection. That is a promise.

Honest mistake my elbow. How naive to do you have to be to believe that? The whole government was in full "get the nation to vote remain" mode, and this promise was clearly designed to instil fear in what would happen to the economy in the event of a leave vote. It was a lie. A lie that of course would have forever been unknown had the country voted the way it was supposed to. That was what the chancellor was banking on. He gambled and lost.

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30 minutes ago, oilinki said:

While there are folks who talk how important their people are. 

 

Who thinks England or lesser Britain is important anymore?

 

 

I think it's the 6th biggest economy in the world.  What makes you think that doesn't qualify the UK to count as important?

This kind of scorn is childish and baseless.

The UK may not have the same status in the world as it did before WW1, but that doesn't mean it isn't important. Just less important.

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29 minutes ago, oilinki said:

While there are folks who talk how important their people are. 

 

Who thinks England or lesser Britain is important anymore?

 

 

Who cares what you think or believe?

 

It is more important what the world thinks.

 

https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/

 

https://atlas.media.mit.edu/en/profile/country/gbr/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(nominal)

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22 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

I think it's the 6th biggest economy in the world.  What makes you think that doesn't qualify the UK to count as important?

This kind of scorn is childish and baseless.

The UK may not have the same status in the world as it did before WW1, but that doesn't mean it isn't important. Just less important.

I thought UK was 5th biggest economy in the world. I guess I have to update my books!!

 

Is there a reason why I still think that UK is the 5th biggest economy in the world and you think it's the 6th biggest economy in the world?

 

 

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