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May is said to withdraw parliamentary vote on her Brexit deal


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5 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

There was no democratic vote. There was a manipulated referendum. 

 

5 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I don’t think there will be a referendum. May, the Brexit accomplice, will wait until the last minute to force parliament into a choice between a no deal Brexit and her deal Brexit. As prime minister, it would have been her job to declare the manipulated vote that happened two years ago void and restore democracy by making the manipulators face consequence for their actions. Instead, she is acting as an accomplice for the Brexit gangsters and betraying the people who are were lied to. 

 

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

A manipulated referendum that should be declared void. 

 

11 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Like I said: A manipulated vote must be declared void and rerun. Accepting a manipulated vote is completely undemocratic; true banana republic style. 

 

8 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Why do you think it bothers me? I am repeating it because the discussion around it is repeating. 

 

Where did I show “only (...) one side of the coin”? My point is that the referendum was manipulated, and that proper democracies do not accept manipulated votes. 

These are the posts that you claim again and again that the vote was rigged, you have been told on many occassion that both sides lied but you chose to ignore it, I wonder why. Whatever you think, can I remind you that it was a British vote and our Parliament chose to act on it (not very proficiently as it happens) however they chose to act on it. So repeating in every post 'it was rigged' does not make any difference. If you cannot see that you are either very obtuse or very obstinate.

I also believe how a country runs itself is really up to that country and that country alone, but by all means have opinions, but yours are becoming disturbingly obsessive.

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14 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

So what your saying is any 2nd referendum is null and void even before it takes place due to the above

I am saying what I was saying: That a manipulated referendum must be declared void. Implementing a manipulated result is completely undemocratic. Of course, you can ignore that if it suits you. But then it doesn’t even suit you because you’re dividing the people that you need in future. You will always be told that you didn’t win the vote because it was manipulated. And you cannot prove otherwise because the vote was manipulated. 

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3 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

Why should it be secret?

Because we want our MPs to do what they honestly believe is best. Secrecy should not be necessary but these weak people have no spine.

 

I say again, secret ballot followed by ratification by the populous. This what referendums are actually for!

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1 minute ago, Grouse said:

Because we want our MPs to do what they honestly believe is best. Secrecy should not be necessary but these weak people have no spine.

 

I say again, secret ballot followed by ratification by the populous. This what referendums are actually for!

But for those of us who believe in a Parliamentary Democracy I don't think a second referendum would fair to our constitution.

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47 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

So he wanted to be the perpetrator of a scam rather than the victim of it? Sure you're not projecting?

Taking your time with that textbook. Still on the psychological projection chapter i see.

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6 hours ago, vogie said:

There is no shift in public opinion for a second referendum.

 

Curtice has also managed to present the opposite point of view, depending on the precise phrasing of the question. 

"He has also repeatedly written in the past month that there is some evidence for such a swing."

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/has-public-opinion-swung-favour-second-eu-referendum/

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2 minutes ago, lamyai3 said:

Curtice has also managed to present the opposite point of view, depending on the precise phrasing of the question. 

"He has also repeatedly written in the past month that there is some evidence for such a swing."

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/has-public-opinion-swung-favour-second-eu-referendum/

Thanks for your link, but it does say in conclusion that:-

 

"There is some polling evidence of a shift in public opinion towards another referendum, but different polls have given inconsistent results, and results can vary a lot depending on what question is asked."

 

Hardly says conclusively that public opinion has shifted.

 

 

 

 

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28 minutes ago, albertik said:

Frexit anyone? I've a feeling France and some others are not far behind.  Italy or Spain.

Why would they??? Sure, most EU countries have their populist minorities wishing for it but that's really it.

 

The support for the EU on the continent has actually increased since the Brexit vote (seeing the shambles that the UK makes of Brexit probably helped as well).

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1 hour ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

I am saying what I was saying: That a manipulated referendum must be declared void. Implementing a manipulated result is completely undemocratic. Of course, you can ignore that if it suits you. But then it doesn’t even suit you because you’re dividing the people that you need in future. You will always be told that you didn’t win the vote because it was manipulated. And you cannot prove otherwise because the vote was manipulated. 

There have been reports that the 1975 EU membership referendum was subject to manipulation so should that referendum also be declared null and void

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1 hour ago, vogie said:

<snip>

These are the posts that you claim again and again that the vote was rigged, you have been told on many occassion that both sides lied but you chose to ignore it,

We all know the lies told by the Leave campaign; the £350 million a week for the NHS which leaving would provide being the most obvious and well known.

 

I asked several days ago in a different thread for an example of a Remain campaign lie; so far no one has provided one.

 

Will you now do so?

 

I'm looking for a proven lie; not a projection which may or may not happen once we have actually left.

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26 minutes ago, vogie said:

Thanks for your link, but it does say in conclusion that:-

 

"There is some polling evidence of a shift in public opinion towards another referendum, but different polls have given inconsistent results, and results can vary a lot depending on what question is asked."

 

Hardly says conclusively that public opinion has shifted

Probably the most objective of the polls referenced in the article is this one, which has stuck to the same question over a protracted period of time.

 

"One polling company, YouGov, has consistently asked the same question at regular intervals over the past year, which gives us the best opportunity to see if there is a long-term trend.

 

Their question is “Once the Brexit negotiations are complete and the terms of Britain's exit from the EU have been agreed, do you think there should or should not be a referendum to accept or reject them?”. The polling since April 2017 suggests that there has been a shift in favour of a second referendum - from a clear majority against a second vote a year ago, to a roughly even split in recent polls."

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9 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

There have been reports that the 1975 EU membership referendum was subject to manipulation so should that referendum also be declared null and void

It may have escaped your notice, but we had a referendum in 2016 to decide whether or not to continue with the result of that one!

 

If the result of the 1975 referendum can be overturned by another one, why not the result of the 2016 one? Especially now that the true effects of Brexit are becoming more widely known.

 

What is it about another referendum that you Brexiteers are so afraid of? Surely if you are right then you will win again!

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1 hour ago, vogie said:

But for those of us who believe in a Parliamentary Democracy I don't think a second referendum would fair to our constitution.

But in the UK referendums are only advisory - so what is wrong with asking someone twice ?

 

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2 hours ago, vinny41 said:

Here a better idea Each MP resign forcing a by election stand for re-election as a independent candidate on either A Leave or Remain ticket 

I have no objection to that.

 

How could that be delivered?

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