Chon Buri Immigration Today 11/12/2018 Renew Retirement Visa TM7

[OJAS]

12 hours ago, OZEMADE said:

the Australian notice is clearly posted on the wall at the Retirement counter number 8 at the Chon Buri Immigration office.

Out of curiosity is the British notice also posted on said wall? If so, then I trust that the BS nonsense which it included regarding the acceptability of monthly income has been clearly redacted!

[JLCrab]

19 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

There is in effect a Police Order that clearly spells out what the 'evidence' that is needed for a Retirement extension and marriage extension.  there is nothing in that Police Order that indicates 800K in a Thai Bank is the only way of obtaining an extension.

You routinely go on like that 327/2557 Police Order is the be-all and end-all. There can be regulations and directives that have never been translated that are addendum to the Police Order just like there are statutes and regulations in the US of A.

 

At least for the "not less than" 65K monthly income route to an extension it does not say what in fact the evidence required actually is. Even though the 138/2557 DOCS mentions 'evidence of retirement pension, interest, or dividend', that does not necessarily mean that they want to start looking at source documents. They sure haven't up until now.

 

You say you can show them your one pension document as sufficient. How man y people can produce ONE document that will exceed the 65K baht monthly required. So how many are they supposed to be willing to look at? 

Edited December 12, 2018 by JLCrab

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

You say you can show them your one pension document as sufficient. How man y people can produce ONE document that will exceed the 65K baht monthly required. So how many are they supposed to be willing to look at? 

They should be willing to look at as many as necessary- some people will have a few; some people will have many. Some people will not use the income letters That is their job. That is what they get paid to do.  They decided that the  US/BE/AU letters were not sufficient.

You  seem to be indicating you know it is too hard; takes too much time, to do their job- but there have been reports that others have shown added  proof and it was easily read and accepted. As, I said, each to their own .

 

[Thaidream]

15 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

You routinely go on like that 327/2557 Police Order is the be-all and end-all. There can be regulations and directives that have never been translated that are addendum to the Police Order just like there are statutes and regulations in the US of A.

There are no hidden laws; directives or any other type of thing. Everything is based off the Immigration Act of 1979 and further clarified by Police Directives which are published widely and available for scrutiny. They are published in Thai and then translated to English.

 

Most of the applicants for extension of stay want to follow the law and only ask that it be followed- fairly and without deviation at ALL Immigration offices and that the Officers interpret it as it was meant to be interpreted.  

 

B

[OZEMADE]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

Out of curiosity is the British notice also posted on said wall? If so, then I trust that the BS nonsense which it included regarding the acceptability of monthly income has been clearly redacted!

No its not on the Immigration office like the Aussie one, but it is clearly stated on the British Embassy Thailand web site.

The last day for you to get one from the British Embassy was today 12 /12/18 They will issue no more Income letters. See last paragraph highlighted.

British Embassy Announcement

From 1 January 2019, the British Embassy Bangkok will no longer be providing British Nationals with letters confirming their income. This letter has previously served as a supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa. The British Embassy Bangkok is stopping the certification of income letters because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements to verify the income of British Nationals.

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

All British Nationals concerned should note that the last date for applications is 12 December 2018. Further information

Edited December 12, 2018 by OZEMADE

[JLCrab]

50 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

They should be willing to look at as many as necessary-

Good chance they may not want to look at any.

[JLCrab]

42 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

There are no hidden laws; directives or any other type of thing.

So where it is stated in plain sight prior to this last few months that an income affidavit is required form one's embassy or consulate to establish evidence of monthly income?

Edited December 12, 2018 by JLCrab

[ubonjoe]

46 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

There are no hidden laws; directives or any other type of thing. Everything is based off the Immigration Act of 1979 and further clarified by Police Directives which are published widely and available for scrutiny.

Not everything is done by police orders and or directives. There are some old ministerial regulations that many things are based upon that are not readily available now.

One of those old orders is one that apparently states foreign income is to be proven by way of proof from a person's embassy.

 

[kimchibob]

Attended the US Embassy Outreach Program at the Dusit Thani Hotel today in Pattaya. Prior to the program beginning, the Deputy of the American Citizen Services Section provided some remarks on the ongoing issue of income verification. She assured us that Income Affidavit Letters will be honored by Thai Immigration for a period of up to six months after date of issue. Additionally, she announced that they had scheduled a meeting with Jomtien Immigration at 10:30 to discuss the options for income verification after Income Affidavit Letters will no longer be accepted. Somewhat encouraging that the Embassy is at least making an effort to assist its citizens. We shall see what the results are.

[OJAS]

51 minutes ago, OZEMADE said:

No its not on the Immigration office like the Aussie one, but it is clearly stated on the British Embassy Thailand web site.

The last day for you to get one from the British Embassy was today 12 /12/18 They will issue no more Income letters. See last paragraph highlighted.

British Embassy Announcement

From 1 January 2019, the British Embassy Bangkok will no longer be providing British Nationals with letters confirming their income. This letter has previously served as a supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa. The British Embassy Bangkok is stopping the certification of income letters because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements to verify the income of British Nationals.

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

All British Nationals concerned should note that the last date for applications is 12 December 2018. Further information

Probably not surprising that Jomtien have chosen not display the British announcement in the same way as they have the Aussie one, then, given the BS which it would contain - as I have shown in bold strikethrough in my edits to your quote from their website!

[cleverman]

16 hours ago, janclaes47 said:

Thanks forr mentioning that, now it's just waiting for the usual deniers from the related threads to come here and read it.

And I can 100 percent guarantee that will happen. Been on the receiving end myself.

[cleverman]

14 hours ago, OZEMADE said:

British, USA, Australian and others Embassys have already notified their patrons that they will NOT be issueing Embassy letters for financial purposes, check out their sites for confirmation. Australia stops on the 7th January and the Australian notice is clearly posted on the wall at the Retirement counter number 8 at the Chon Buri Immigration office. Chon Buri also stated they will not be accepting them and they will only accept THB 800,000.00 in a Thai Bank.

False news. The Oz embassy have said they will certify documents that prove income . Stat decs are not going to be use after January. 

[janclaes47]

3 minutes ago, cleverman said:

False news. The Oz embassy have said they will certify documents that prove income . Stat decs are not going to be use after January. 

And you base that one one particular embassy staff that has told that to you.

 

You have since any credible source?

[OZEMADE]

5 minutes ago, cleverman said:

False news. The Oz embassy have said they will certify documents that prove income . Stat decs are not going to be use after January. 

 

[Thaidream]

49 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not everything is done by police orders and or directives. There are some old ministerial regulations that many things are based upon that are not readily available now.

One of those old orders is one that apparently states foreign income is to be proven by way of proof from a person's embassy.

I agree =my point is that there are  regulation's- ministerial or other that are written down and available in some format.  Regarding the income letter- I remember reading that it was the way to 'prove income'/  However, I cannot remember the exact place it was written.

 

[wgdanson]

14 hours ago, OZEMADE said:

British, USA, Australian and others Embassys have already notified their patrons that they will NOT be issueing Embassy letters for financial purposes, check out their sites for confirmation. Australia stops on the 7th January and the Australian notice is clearly posted on the wall at the Retirement counter number 8 at the Chon Buri Immigration office. Chon Buri also stated they will not be accepting them and they will only accept THB 800,000.00 in a Thai Bank.

I dont like your chances definitely at the Chon Buri office

an update on the 3 Embassys.

AMERICAN EMBASSY

NOTICE: The Consular Section of the U.S. Embassy in Bangkok is pleased to offer a full-day of notary services on Thursday, December 20, 2018. Service will be provided by appointment only. There will be approximately 300 notarial appointments available.
Please visit us here to make an appointment.

Beginning January 1, 2019, U.S. Embassy Bangkok and U.S. Consulate General Chiang Mai will no longer provide the income affidavit.
We will not notarize previous versions of the income affidavit. For more information, please refer to our Fact Sheet (PDF 266KB) and Frequently Asked Questions(PDF 419KB). We will continue to notarize income affidavit forms through the end of 2018. Thai Immigration Bureau officials confirmed that they will support early visa renewals for U.S. citizens during the transition period.

 

British Embassy Announcement

From 1 January 2019, the British Embassy Bangkok will no longer be providing British Nationals with letters confirming their income. This letter has previously served as a supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa. The British Embassy Bangkok is stopping the certification of income letters because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements to verify the income of British Nationals.

British Nationals should now demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 800,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 65,000 THB transferred into an account in Thailand. For marriage visas British Nationals should demonstrate that they have an amount of at least 400,000 THB in an account in Thailand for no less than three months prior to the visa application, or a monthly income of at least 40,000 THB. A bank statement should be used as the supporting document for obtaining a Thai retirement or marriage visa.

All British Nationals concerned should note that the last date for applications is 12 December 2018. Further information

 

AUSTRALIAN Embassy announcement

Consular Notarial Services Update

As of 7 January, the Embassy will no longer witness statutory declarations that declare income or bank balances for Thai Immigration purposes. (More)

But of course, we all know that this was a gross error on behalf of the British Embass. 65k into a Thai bank account WILL NOT be accepted....YET.

[Jingthing]

8 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

But of course, we all know that this was a gross error on behalf of the British Embass. 65k into a Thai bank account WILL NOT be accepted....YET.

Or very possibly NEVER.

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

 

Good chance they may not want to look at any.

There is also a good chance they will have to look at them unless the directives' orders etc are changed.  They are already looking at them. In my own case- they asked to see the back up information which I showed -a pension letter; foreign bank statement with the pension direct deposit and the ATM cards I used to get the money. Very easy for them to understand.

 

There have been a few reports on TV that some other offices have  asked for backup proof and accepted that proof.

 

IMO= the more ways they accept  'evidence' or 'proof' of income-the better off everyone who applies for an extension will be.  Just because I have a pension doesn't mean my way is the only way.  Other people do not have pensions or 800K to place in a bank. Some people have direct deposit to Thailand; others have income from investments; others have legal business income from abroad; others have legal business income from Thailand. All legal income can be proved. If it's in a language Immigration cannot read- each Embassy provides a list of translators in Thailand.

 

The Immigration Department sets the regulations and methodology for all this. The IO's carry it out.  If they do not currently understand how to do it- they can be trained.  The Us Embassy outreach is doing just that-providing examples of the types of income stream US citizens have and the documentation they obtain as proof.

 

The other Embassies who have declined to issue the income letters can do the same  which will help their citizens.

[JLCrab]

For the Extension via monthly income IMM could ask to see a monthly FTT-type deposit in a pass book "not less than" 65K baht and a signed statement ( as they ask you to sign MANY statements already) that this is money that has not been directly or indirectly transferred to your account in your home country back from your account in Thailand

 

... and IMM would thus never have to look at ANY source documetn.

[JLCrab]

20 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

IMO= the more ways they accept  'evidence' or 'proof' of income-the better off everyone who applies for an extension will be.  Just because I have a pension doesn't mean my way is the only way.  Other people do not have pensions or 800K to place in a bank. Some people have direct deposit to Thailand; others have income from investments; others have legal business income from abroad; others have legal business income from Thailand. All legal income can be proved. If it's in a language Immigration cannot read- each Embassy provides a list of translators in Thailand.

[cleverman]

45 minutes ago, janclaes47 said:

And you base that one one particular embassy staff that has told that to you.

 

You have since any credible source?

 False. I don't base that on one person. Instead of getting on here and making assumptions, mocking people, I research. If you did the same you would know that certifying documents is a duty of Oz embassys and consuls. Get on the gov.com.au, ministry of foreign affairs. The ambassador to Thailand can't change legislation. It would not matter if it was the little old lady office cleaner at the embassy who told me. You have to get up early in the morning to get one over me. 

[Thaidream]

18 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

... and IMM would thus never have to look at ANY source documetn.

Yes- and they would never be able to prove that you have a stream of income that meets the requirement. The whole point of the Embassy Letter was to prove you had the income- not that you could put 65K into a bank each month. 

 

I am advocating ALL methods- not just one- and I am not worried about the IO's workload. They can easily be trained to  understand different methods of income generation and the documentation.  They want proof of income- now they'll get it.

[janclaes47]

2 minutes ago, cleverman said:

 False. I don't base that on one person. Instead of getting on here and making assumptions, mocking people, I research. If you did the same you would know that certifying documents is a duty of Oz embassys and consuls. Get on the gov.com.au, ministry of foreign affairs. The ambassador to Thailand can't change legislation. It would not matter if it was the little old lady office cleaner at the embassy who told me. You have to get up early in the morning to get one over me. 

False.

 

Point us to your " research" in the thread you started

 

 

[JLCrab]

21 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

They can easily be trained

They don't want to be trained. They already are trained as much as they are going to want to be trained.

These people are trained police officers not accountants and book keepers. They will likely want to be able to determine monthly income for extension of stay in about the same 30 seconds it took with an embassy income affidavit, wherein, at least for those from the same country, all the means of proving income were the same. 

 

Not some cornucopia of methods of proving income.

Edited December 12, 2018 by JLCrab

[LongTimeLurker]

16 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Another Immigration Office  with  their own interpretation of the Immigration  law.  This is not what people have been told at CW or Chaing Mai or  Korat or Mukdahan.   At least they accepted the  Embassy Letter.

Glad you got your extension. Cheers

 

If you read the OP properly you will see that he DID use the Embassy income letter but was told that next time (i.e. in 1 year) that will not be possible.

[cleverman]

1 hour ago, janclaes47 said:

False.

 

Point us to your " research" in the thread you started

 

 

No. If you don't know how to do research, don't  expect others to hold your hand. 

[janclaes47]

18 minutes ago, cleverman said:

No. If you don't know how to do research, don't  expect others to hold your hand. 

When I read the 8 pages of your thread it's clear that you are the only one that THINKS he knows how to do research.

 

 

No further comments. Bye

[Thaidream]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

They don't want to be trained. They already are trained as much as they are going to want to be trained.

These people are trained police officers not accountants and book keepers. They will likely want to be able to determine monthly income for extension of stay in about the same 30 seconds it took with an embassy income affidavit, wherein, at least for those from the same country, all the means of proving income were the same. 

 

Not some cornucopia of methods of proving income.

If you don't mind- I shall await the word from Thai Immigration Central before I start making changes to my financial set up.

[JLCrab]

20 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

If you don't mind- I shall await the word from Thai Immigration Central before I start making changes to my financial set up.

Up to you -- I have already made changes in that instead of bringing money into Thailand via ATM or Bangkok Bank ACH, I have started, this the 2nd month, to do a 65K+ baht SWIFT FTT transfer into my Bangkok Bank account bcuz I think that will end up being 99% of what's going to be required if there is a new method of evidence of income.

 

I also have noted that the IMM folks might have you sign some sort of document as to the source of your (non-circulating) monthly funds as, unlike someone faking an Embassy document, you would now be filing a false RTP Police report in an RTP police station.

Edited December 12, 2018 by JLCrab

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Up to you -- I have already made changes in that instead of bringing money into Thailand via ATM or Bangkok Bank ACH, I have started, this the 2nd month, to do a 65K+ baht SWIFT FTT transfer into my Bangkok Bank account bcuz I think that will end up being 99% of what's going to be required if there is a new method of evidence of income.

 

I also have noted that the IMM folks might have you sign some sort of document as to the source of your (non-circulating) monthly funds as, unlike someone faking an Embassy document, you would now be filing a false RTP Police report in an RTP police station.

AS you said- Up To You!!!  My position has been stated.