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12 month visa extensions based on monthly income method or bank deposit 3 month


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21 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

Is the money you pay into a Pension scheme (in UK) not tax free?

Since Gordon Brown's idea of taxing the profit made on pension schemes in 1997 the initial investment you pay into a pension scheme may be tax deductible but any profit made by investing that money is taxed. So a large portion of your final lump sum that you re-invest for a pension annuity has already been taxed. When your annuity pension is paid to you every month it is a taxable income. So yes, we are taxed twice. Only the initial investment might have been tax-free.

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1 hour ago, wgdanson said:

And if the money was éarned'in a previous tax year....no Thai taxes. So in whch year was your pension earned?

The previous year. I do not bring any income received in the current year into Thailand, income, pension or from other sources stays in my account outside Thailand until the year after it has been received.

 

This is known as planning. I have long known of the Thai tax law and planned my transfers to remain completely compliant rather than hoping that I can slide under the radar.

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25 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

The previous year. I do not bring any income received in the current year into Thailand, income, pension or from other sources stays in my account outside Thailand until the year after it has been received.

 

This is known as planning. I have long known of the Thai tax law and planned my transfers to remain completely compliant rather than hoping that I can slide under the radar.

Correct sir. I would argue that my pension income was earned when I was a mere lad. 

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9 hours ago, luckyluke said:

The equivalent of 77000 ThB ( monthly transfers ) from Belgium to my Thailand bank account with TransferWise cost me +/- 620 ThB.

 7500 ThB yearly, 1700 ThB L.o.I., 1900 ThB year extension.

So less than 1000 ThB a month.

A fair price ( and legal ) to pay, in my opinion; as I don't have 800000 ThB.

Not taken into account here, is that TransferWise convert the net sum at the mid-market' rate, rather than the 'buy-rate' that you would get if you use a normal international bank transfer.

 

This makes T/W very competitive against alternative methods. There NO hidden costs when using this method. What you see, is exactly what you get.

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9 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

Not taken into account here, is that TransferWise convert the net sum at the mid-market' rate, 

No they don't. They also have a rate that is somewhat less than the mid market rate and is slightly less good than the superrich buying rate once you factor in the fee payable.

 

I did a comparison and for a transfer of £9,000 you would get about 1,200 Baht more using £50 notes at superrich.

 

of course that doesn't factor in the inconvenience of exchanging cash compared to the convenience of a transfer you can do from your chair at home.

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10 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

No they don't. They also have a rate that is somewhat less than the mid market rate and is slightly less good than the superrich buying rate once you factor in the fee payable.

 

I did a comparison and for a transfer of £9,000 you would get about 1,200 Baht more using £50 notes at superrich.

 

of course that doesn't factor in the inconvenience of exchanging cash compared to the convenience of a transfer you can do from your chair at home.

And an entry in your bank book which says FTT.

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1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said:

No they don't. They also have a rate that is somewhat less than the mid market rate and is slightly less good than the superrich buying rate once you factor in the fee payable.

 

I did a comparison and for a transfer of £9,000 you would get about 1,200 Baht more using £50 notes at superrich.

 

of course that doesn't factor in the inconvenience of exchanging cash compared to the convenience of a transfer you can do from your chair at home.

When I started this thread earlier today I did an example such as yours. This morning the "live share market rate was 23.63baht/ 1aud.

The company I sometimes use OFX was 23.30. Superrich 23.55.

I got the OFX rate (same as tranferwise) on a live deal quote of $10000aud. Would of been worse rate at say $2000. 

My point. If I'm in position to bring cash in I'm losing about 2000 baht + the companies deal cost. 

Point of thread was to point out how much is lost over a year. The above example was only for 10k aud. 

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5 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

No they don't. They also have a rate that is somewhat less than the mid market rate and is slightly less good than the superrich buying rate once you factor in the fee payable.

 

I did a comparison and for a transfer of £9,000 you would get about 1,200 Baht more using £50 notes at superrich.

 

of course that doesn't factor in the inconvenience of exchanging cash compared to the convenience of a transfer you can do from your chair at home.

This has been discussed previously. Obviously, when you compare a fixed payment transfer method, such as SWIFT, against one that uses a percentage scale of charging, such as T/W there will come a point when a moving a larger sum, SWIFT will become more economical.

 

But please be realistic here. We're discussing monthly pension payments and the like, not 4 figure sums. I've just moved 600 GBP. It cost me 4.60 GBP and I got mid-market rate. To do that via SWIFT would have cost me 20 GBP and I would have got buy rate. A clear win for T/W.

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6 hours ago, JohnC said:

U.K. and Thailand do indeed have a double taxation agreement whereby if you pay tax on your income in UK then you don't pay tax on it in Thailand. Also any income earned in UK is taxed in UK.

 

it has also been reported on here that if your lump sum is in a Thai bank and you receive interest which is taxable you can reclaim the tax from the Thai Tax Office. 

JohnC I would be grateful if you could provide a link to the UK / Thailand double taxation agreement that says this. There is a DTA to be found via the tax pages on GOV.UK but I cannot find where this is covered. Thank you!

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6 minutes ago, Moonlover said:

This has been discussed previously. Obviously, when you compare a fixed payment transfer method, such as SWIFT, against one that uses a percentage scale of charging, such as T/W there will come a point when a moving a larger sum, SWIFT will become more economical.

 

But please be realistic here. We're discussing monthly pension payments and the like, not 4 figure sums. I've just moved 600 GBP. It cost me 4.60 GBP and I got mid-market rate. To do that via SWIFT would have cost me 20 GBP and I would have got buy rate. A clear win for T/W.

It's unlikely that SWIFT will ever be better until maybe you are transferring very large sums as you have to factor in the receiving and possible intermediate bank charges.

 

and I've just proved proof that TransferWise does not give a mid market rate, though it is a good one and better than most bank tt rates

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We can bounce this around. After this I'll stop. I just did quote live on my OFX ac. Same as trànsferwise.

Live market 23.6442 (unavailable to public)

Superrich 23.55

OFX deal on 3000aud deal 23.1335

Not a Google deal a fixed deal if I click it. Then the deal cost added to that quote. 

 

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4 minutes ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not into my SCB account, it just shows as a normal domestic transfer. 

I think were missing the point. IO relies (previously) on embassy letter or 800k in bank for 3 months. I've done the bank method for several years. As mentioned previously, when in au, I bring 25k USD. I always bring my withdraw statements from my au accounts etc. I have never been asked in 7 years to show where my 800k baht came from. 

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25 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I think were missing the point. IO relies (previously) on embassy letter or 800k in bank for 3 months. I've done the bank method for several years. As mentioned previously, when in au, I bring 25k USD. I always bring my withdraw statements from my au accounts etc. I have never been asked in 7 years to show where my 800k baht came from. 

Not missing the point at all, some people believe that provable transfers from overseas will be an acceptable substitute for an embassy document.  

 

I Don't, money 400k/800k in the bank is the only certainty, though that may change, or not. 

 

There is one special case where that money has to be proven to be from outside Thailand. But apart from that it doesn't matter where it comes from.

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14 hours ago, wgdanson said:

But are the Belgian Embassy still issuing income letters like the Immigration want?

It seems so far, no report from otherwise.

 I get my L.o.I. ( Not an Affidavit) from the Austrian Consulate in Pattaya.

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8 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not into my SCB account, it just shows as a normal domestic transfer. 

There seems to be some contention in this. Some seem to get a FTT, others a local deposit as if it came from another Thai account. I was told if transferring Sterling from UK, Thai baht dropped into your local account which came from Singapore.

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51 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

There seems to be some contention in this. Some seem to get a FTT, others a local deposit as if it came from another Thai account. I was told if transferring Sterling from UK, Thai baht dropped into your local account which came from Singapore.

I don't think that contention is the correct word maybe you ment differences.

 

I haven't tried transferring Sterling from the UK and do not know that it is possible. 

 

I arrange a purchase of Baht by TransferWise, paid in Sterling in the UK and paid into my Thai bank the amount of the purchase.

 

as you can see it's a domestic payment, no contention.

 

Other banks and other transfers could be different all I can say is my transfer was domestic 

 

 

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18 hours ago, Mavideol said:

so to understand correctly... we work collect a salary, pay taxes on that salary while working....then we retire collect a misery of what we paid for and still have to pay taxes on that misery of a pension.... double taxation or maybe triple taxation if retired into a country taxing us for the moneys bringing in to such country....

No,you only pay uk tax on the income generated in uk (pension,rental income etc) . There is no paying tax twice (double taxation agreements) and certainly transfers of that income into Thailand are NOT income to be taxed by Thailand. Also you have a current uk personal allowance of £11850 (£12500 from April 2019)on which you pay no tax and 20% tax only on the income above that,until you reach higher rate threshold.

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5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

There seems to be some contention in this. Some seem to get a FTT, others a local deposit as if it came from another Thai account. I was told if transferring Sterling from UK, Thai baht dropped into your local account which came from Singapore.

Your UK bank would have used an intermediary bank (very common) in Thailand to deposit that amount into your Thai account and that would show up as a local transfer.  That is your bank's arrangement for the baht, different currencies can have different arrangements.  You will need to find out from your UK bank which bank they use in Thailand, then set up an account at that Thai bank to avoid the intermediary bank.

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On 12/14/2018 at 8:09 AM, JohnC said:

Thanks. I've looked at this and I'm none the wiser. It is the one I looked at previously and as far as I know the only one in existence. I don't see a section on UK State Pensions or UK private pensions, only bank interest.

 

Assuming though these are liable to tax in each country and the tax treaty does apply then in my case amalgamating all these it rather looks as if UK tax would be less than Thai tax, and so I would be taxed in the UK, as it arises there and then pay the difference in Thailand between that and the Thai tax assessment.

 

Unless I don't remit to Thailand until the following year when as I understand it it does not get taxed in Thailand. What the basis for that is I don't know, because it then becomes savings perhaps? No need to answer that unless someone feels inclined! It would be hard for me to do that now anyway. 

 

But how many register with the Thai tax authorities I wonder? From what I hear, no retirees bother and the Thai tax people are not interested. I'm sure it's different if you are working, especially if employed in Thailand.

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Look again, the opening statement states Income Tax , also Google uk income tax, all income earned in the UK is taxed in the UK irrespective of source, e.g. Pensions, property income, interest , etc that's where the double taxation agreement kicks in. I think you are getting too bogged down, it's a similar argument about resident and non resident for which there are many posts on here . Yes if you are not earning in Thailand why would you want (or need) to deal with Thai tax authorities? I know of one case where an expat declared his UK income to Thai tax office, got a tax bill and the U.K. Response was "earned in the UK taxed in the UK" it took a long time to sort that one out! I hope that helps 

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15 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

But how many register with the Thai tax authorities I wonder? From what I hear, no retirees bother and the Thai tax people are not interested.

Maybe more than you think as you can reclaim most/all tax on bank interest, if registered.

FWIW Personally I'm retired and registered with the Thai tax authority, though if it was a good idea or not I have yet to find out.

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15 hours ago, Kalasin Jo said:

But how many register with the Thai tax authorities I wonder? From what I hear, no retirees bother and the Thai tax people are not interested. I'm sure it's different if you are working, especially if employed in Thailand.

I have managed to not bother for many years feeling a sense of not prodding a sleeping tiger with a stick. But I seem to be perpetually pressed to do it to retain my UK bank account, they want a tax number of where I reside. I expect the UK pension might too when I qualify. Maybe best to just bite the bullet, and hey, as someone said, get a tax refunded on the with-holding tax.

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