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DrJack54

12 month visa extensions based on monthly income method or bank deposit 3 month

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5 minutes ago, jimn said:

Totally irrelevant question. What is this monthly deposit method you are asking about? To my knowledge at this time there is no such thing.

There isn't. It's something that the embassies that are cutting off vital services to their expat citizens are talking about. Crickets from Thai immigration. 

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34 minutes ago, JohnC said:

U.K. and Thailand do indeed have a double taxation agreement whereby if you pay tax on your income in UK then you don't pay tax on it in Thailand. Also any income earned in UK is taxed in UK.

 

it has also been reported on here that if your lump sum is in a Thai bank and you receive interest which is taxable you can reclaim the tax from the Thai Tax Office. 

Not quite correct. Both countries assess your income and the tax payable, tax payed in one country is then offset against tax liability in the other. So if the UK tax payed is greater than the Thai tax due you pay nothing, but if the UK tax is less than the Thai Tax due you have to pay the difference to The Thai tax authority. 

 

Most foreign account holders have income that is under the Thai tax threshold, or is for tax purposes zero so can reclaim any tax payed on bank interest.

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2 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

what if it was 3 am on a Sunday morning huh

An ATM can deliver a good bit perhaps,

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Kerryd, you make some good points. I also use the 800k in Thai bank. Only difference is, after the extension date I start using the money. Some people visit home country each year (I do), point is I physically bring with me cash 25k USD  each time. The difference in me bringing in cash and converting here is often between 0.5-1.0 baht per aud. (I mentioned USD before because that's the maximum before need to declare). Then there's the savings on transfers etc. On that sort of money im often 30k baht better off. I'm au. No one can completely acurately forecast exchange rates. However domestic interest rates are going in opposite directions in USA and au. Also the au government wants a weaker aud. In feb when back in au upon return will bring in another 30k au because rates end of 2019 expected to possibly be 22baht+. Point is with money in bank method you can let your money accrue in home country from pensions/investments etc. Then bring/transfer when it seems best.

The guys using the monthly income deposit into Thai bank might see better alternative if it suits their situation.

Edited by DrJack54
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On the issue of Thai taxation of foreign sourced income...

 

I'm making some rounding assumptions here as I'm unsure of the exact numbers, but you'll get the gist, and you can re-run with exact number if you have them.

 

A UK citizen will need to bring in minimum of 65kBt per month (call that 800k per year), and lets assume just 40THB/GBP (I know it's just above this at the moment, although maybe not in the future, but it keeps the maths easy).  So 20k GBP per year.

 

Now the UK personal allowance is around 10k (so the first 10k of income is not taxed).  Above this it's taxed at 20%.  So to receive 20k GBP after tax (so that it can be transferred to Thailand) you'll need to earn (or receive in pensions) 22.5k GBP before tax... (2,500 being taken in UK tax).

 

So Thai tax will be due on the money imported.. From the tables I've seen (not those presented earlier), 0% due on the first 150k, 5% due on the next 150k, 10% on the next 200k, 15% on the next t 250k (taking us up to 750k), and 25% upto 1MM.  So 800k income imported will require a total of 75k of tax to be paid (or 1,875 GBP).

 

But since there has already been 2500 GBP of UK tax deducted, then no further Thai tax is payable (or if it is, then it can be reclaimed under the DTA). 

 

Note:  This is my understanding of the situation, and I could be totally wrong, in which case please point this out.

 

Interestingly, for married UK's.  The 400k required (or 10k GBP) is below the UK PA, so no UK tax will have been paid.... but, there will be a Thai tax due of 17.5k THB, which will not be reclaimable against UK tax, since none was paid.   

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I'm not qualified to talk about Thai taxation. However think some are confusing taxation here. Personally I (like many) have an income stream from my superannuation, rentals etc. I PAY taxes on all my income in Australia. The taxes have been paid to au government. The money is earnt there, not in Thailand. I'm happy to stand corrected but I am just spending my after-tax monies in Thailand.

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53 minutes ago, steve73 said:

On the issue of Thai taxation of foreign sourced income...

 

I'm making some rounding assumptions here as I'm unsure of the exact numbers, but you'll get the gist, and you can re-run with exact number if you have them.

 

A UK citizen will need to bring in minimum of 65kBt per month (call that 800k per year), and lets assume just 40THB/GBP (I know it's just above this at the moment, although maybe not in the future, but it keeps the maths easy).  So 20k GBP per year.

 

Now the UK personal allowance is around 10k (so the first 10k of income is not taxed).  Above this it's taxed at 20%.  So to receive 20k GBP after tax (so that it can be transferred to Thailand) you'll need to earn (or receive in pensions) 22.5k GBP before tax... (2,500 being taken in UK tax).

 

So Thai tax will be due on the money imported.. From the tables I've seen (not those presented earlier), 0% due on the first 150k, 5% due on the next 150k, 10% on the next 200k, 15% on the next t 250k (taking us up to 750k), and 25% upto 1MM.  So 800k income imported will require a total of 75k of tax to be paid (or 1,875 GBP).

 

But since there has already been 2500 GBP of UK tax deducted, then no further Thai tax is payable (or if it is, then it can be reclaimed under the DTA). 

 

Note:  This is my understanding of the situation, and I could be totally wrong, in which case please point this out.

 

Interestingly, for married UK's.  The 400k required (or 10k GBP) is below the UK PA, so no UK tax will have been paid.... but, there will be a Thai tax due of 17.5k THB, which will not be reclaimable against UK tax, since none was paid.   

I understand where you're coming from with this but, the annual personal UK allowance is £11,850, not £10,000. For a marriage extension, the required income is 40,000 baht per month which equates to 480,000 baht per year, not 400,000 baht. Using your average rounding up/down, to allow for small exchange rate fluctuations, somebody would need to bring around £1,250 pm into Thailand. So, @ £15,000 pa you would pay around £650,00 pa in UK income tax and, @ the equivalent 500,000 baht pa, you would pay around 27000 baht pa in Thai taxation. Depending on the exchange rate of course, a very similar amount.

Edited by sumrit
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3 hours ago, moe666 said:

At present I do not think anyone transfering money into thailand is paying tax on their retirement transfer

Depends upon which international tax treaty is applicable for your country.

According to French-thai international tax treaty , french pensions are taxed in France and vice-versa

 

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6 hours ago, Bangkok Basha said:

and plan to do so until my next extension of stay request next summer. 

And then what?

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6 hours ago, Bangkok Basha said:

I use TransferWise to wire monthly deposits equal to or greater than THB 65,000 to my Bangkok Bank savings account, and plan to do so until my next extension of stay request next summer. The fees are much lower than other means of transferring, and are a tax-deductible expense (I pay U.S. income taxes) as the cost of living here and maintaining my residence. I don't want to park THB 800,000 (currently around $25k) in a low interest, or no interest Thai saving account.

Just be aware that TransferWise payments do not always appear to be foreign in origin as reflected in your Thai-bank's activity record.  If Immigration will rely on the bank's printout of activity, this could fail their test.  

 

Some have suggested showing a PDF from transferwise to bridge the gap, but this would be subject to fraud - such that one could move around 65K from account to account, and then print a faked/modified Transferwise PDF.  I am doubtful anything other than a Thai-bank's printout stamped/signed by a bank-officer will work as primary evidence in the future (for those w/o embassy-letters, assuming these remain valid from some/all other embassies).

 

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There isn't. It's something that the embassies that are cutting off vital services to their expat citizens are talking about. Crickets from Thai immigration. 

Exactly.  We don't know if that even foreign-xfers, shown as foreign in our Thai-bank's activity-record, will even/ever be an option in the future - or if it is just some made-up bit from our embassies to quiet us down.  They won't even reveal a transcript of their conversations with Thai authorities which led to losing our embassy-letters, so why in the world would we believe any statements about what they were told (or may have just made-up)?

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6 hours ago, luckyluke said:

The equivalent of 77000 ThB ( monthly transfers ) from Belgium to my Thailand bank account with TransferWise cost me +/- 620 ThB.

 7500 ThB yearly, 1700 ThB L.o.I., 1900 ThB year extension.

So less than 1000 ThB a month.

A fair price ( and legal ) to pay, in my opinion; as I don't have 800000 ThB.

But are the Belgian Embassy still issuing income letters like the Immigration want?

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2 hours ago, sometimewoodworker said:

Not quite correct. Both countries assess your income and the tax payable, tax payed in one country is then offset against tax liability in the other. So if the UK tax payed is greater than the Thai tax due you pay nothing, but if the UK tax is less than the Thai Tax due you have to pay the difference to The Thai tax authority. 

 

Most foreign account holders have income that is under the Thai tax threshold, or is for tax purposes zero so can reclaim any tax payed on bank interest.

And if the money was éarned'in a previous tax year....no Thai taxes. So in whch year was your pension earned?

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3 hours ago, Mavideol said:

so to understand correctly... we work collect a salary, pay taxes on that salary while working....then we retire collect a misery of what we paid for and still have to pay taxes on that misery of a pension.... double taxation or maybe triple taxation if retired into a country taxing us for the moneys bringing in to such country....

Is the money you pay into a Pension scheme (in UK) not tax free?

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2 hours ago, Kerryd said:

There is little chance that Thailand is going to go into a recession "in the near future" and that all the banks will "fail" like some claim.

It's not just a question of bank-failures, Cypress-style bail-ins, revelations that "official" AAA credit-ratings of nations / banks were total bs, or some other event si

 

milar to those which have happened in recent-memory.  It's also a matter of guaranteed-access.

Whether a person is willing to put 800K here likely depends on what fraction of their total liquid assets it would compose.  If 10% or less, sure.  If a significant percentage, it would be idiotic to put that much of one's money anywhere other than their home-country - the only place where they have a guaranteed "right to be" at all times - especially as Thailand's immigration-division seems intent on thinning the number of expats by various incremental-means.

 

2 hours ago, Kerryd said:

I've noticed that a lot of people (not all) when talking about how much more they are earning on their money "back home" usually trip themselves up by noting that their money isn't actually in a bank account, available to be spent, but instead is in an RRSP or 401k or some other long term investment that they can't really touch. They aren't keeping that money in "fixed term" savings accounts (if they have it at all) but tied up in long term investments

Which means they do NOT have the money to meet the financial requirements as money held in long term investments can't be used to meet the requirements for Immigration.

... or in foreign businesses.  Which is why the income-method works for many ... or did before, anyway.

 

2 hours ago, Kerryd said:

ps: Vietnam is ALWAYS mentioned as an alternative to Thailand. But as discussed in other threads, the grass is also ALWAYS greener somewhere else - until you get there and actually start experiencing life, and the difficulties of living, in that other place.

If those countries were really so great - there'd barely be any expats living in Thailand at all. Strange how there hasn't been a mass exodus to Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam and the Philippines despite all the people who keep claiming that those places are better than Thailand.

Malaysia long-term - only with immigration if the My-2nd-Home option will work for them. 

 

But as to the rest - much, much, much better in terms of dealing with immigration.  They are not reported to make up non-existent rules to ply huge extortion-payments out of people for valid extensions of stay, and/or deny entry to those who have valid visas based on more non-existent laws/rules (because are not playing in their extortion-racket target-area). 

 

In terms of the other aspects of those locales - it's up to each person to decide if they meet their needs. 

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