British PM May survives party confidence vote but 117 dissent

[melvinmelvin]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Lib/Dems have said they would back Corbyn should he propose a no confidence vote, it would appear that at this time Corbyn is not confident he would win it. My take anyway.

 

right and some dup and some snp and I would think also some tory (those who think deal is worse than armag.)

 

hard  to be confident about anything in uk politics now

 

most sensible comment I have heard from a politician since TM survived was from Corbyn

saying that when she is back from Brussels she must pronto bring this deal back to parliament

so that parliament can control Brexit

 

tend to agree with that, Brexit is far too important for UK to let a Tory cabinet play with it

the government's track record re Brexit is pretty awful so far, no good reason to think it will improve

 

about time parliament show some responsibility and take control over UK's future

new working style for parliament - better than letting TM crap down Brexit

[vogie]

7 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If that helps you get over the fact ‘Hard Brexit’ was just taken off the table, well go with it.

Hope this explains it better, you seem to know more than our government.

 

 

[Basil B]

17 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Lib/Dems have said they would back Corbyn should he propose a no confidence vote, it would appear that at this time Corbyn is not confident he would win it. My take anyway.

Fact is too many MP's of all parties in marginal constituencies are going to think twice before jumping. 

[stephenterry]

12 minutes ago, RickBradford said:

Interesting strategy ....

your right...

 

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

Hope this explains it better, you seem to know more than our government.

 

 

What I know, and what you seem to have misunderstood, is the confidence vote was an internal Tory party issue, nothing to do with Labour, Lib-Dem, SNP, DUP or any other party. 

 

The vote secures TM as PM and indicated there is no majority in the Tory party to remove her and replace her with a ‘hard Brexiteer’.

 

Your references to Corbyn et al are irrelevant to the confidence vote that just took place.

 

Nobody in government is now supporting hard Brexit and TM has already mouthed the words ‘or no Brexit’.

 

The Lady is for turning!

 

[evadgib]

Here's what Ferage made of it:

 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

What I know, and what you seem to have misunderstood, is the confidence vote was an internal Tory party issue, nothing to do with Labour, Lib-Dem, SNP, DUP or any other party. 

 

The vote secures TM as PM and indicated there is no majority in the Tory party to remove her and replace her with a ‘hard Brexiteer’.

 

Your references to Corbyn et al are irrelevant to the confidence vote that just took place.

 

Nobody in government is now supporting hard Brexit and TM has already mouthed the words ‘or no Brexit’.

 

The Lady is for turning!

 

Melvin, the post I replying to was talking about a no confidence vote in the government, so you see I have not misunderstood, but maybe you have.

[dick dasterdly]

12 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

If that helps you get over the fact ‘Hard Brexit’ was just taken off the table, well go with it.

Brexit was "off the table" IMO as soon as May did a U-turn from her previous statements "No deal is better than a bad deal", and changed it to 'Its either my' (leave in name only deal) 'or no brexit'!

 

MPs are just looking for a less obvious leave in name only deal, that they can 'sell' to the electorate.....

[sandyf]

37 minutes ago, vogie said:

The Lib/Dems have said they would back Corbyn should he propose a no confidence vote, it would appear that at this time Corbyn is not confident he would win it. My take anyway.

I think all opposition parties have said the same thing except the DUP, but the numbers do not add up. If they did get the DUP then it would be one set of rebels against another.

TM committed to a backstop in the withdrawal agreement back in Dec and now the say it should be removed, left it a bit late. Time they shxx or got off the toilet.

Problem here is they have never had so much power and will be reluctant to give it up.

 

Full details of the withdrawal agreement can be found here http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-6422_en.htm

and the specifics on NI here http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_MEMO-18-6423_en.htm

I suggest you read the paragraph on payment, it clarifies the refunds.

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, vogie said:

Melvin, the post I replying to was talking about a no confidence vote in the government, so you see I have not misunderstood, but maybe you have.

The topic under discussion is a confidence (leadership) vote within the Tory party.

 

That you misunderstood this and interjected with your thoughts on a Parliamentary no confidence vote does not change the topic under discussion.

 

I say again, the Lady is for turning.

[Chomper Higgot]

21 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Brexit was "off the table" IMO as soon as May did a U-turn from her previous statements "No deal is better than a bad deal", and changed it to 'Its either my' (leave in name only deal) 'or no brexit'!

 

MPs are just looking for a less obvious leave in name only deal, that they can 'sell' to the electorate.....

Precisely this.

[vogie]

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The topic under discussion is a confidence (leadership) vote within the Tory party.

 

That you misunderstood this and interjected with your thoughts on a Parliamentary no confidence vote does not change the topic under discussion.

 

I say again, the Lady is for turning.

 

6 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The topic under discussion is a confidence (leadership) vote within the Tory party.

 

That you misunderstood this and interjected with your thoughts on a Parliamentary no confidence vote does not change the topic under discussion.

 

I say again, the Lady is for turning.

 

1 hour ago, melvinmelvin said:

there is still the possibility of a non conf being moved in parliament

 

Melvin said because of the vote last night, read above ^ ^ ^ ^

 

So I did understand, but you chose to change the discussion which is related to this topic.

[Cryingdick]

England is going to crash out of the EU with no deal. They are undoubtedly sick of dealing with this flip flop. The thing is France has riots in the street and the economic forecast for Italy isn't great to say the least. The pound is about to become very slim.

 

England should join the USA after they crash out. 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

England is going to crash out of the EU with no deal. They are undoubtedly sick of dealing with this flip flop. The thing is France has riots in the street and the economic forecast for Italy isn't great to say the least. The pound is about to become very slim.

 

England should join the USA after they crash out. 

Can we let Scotland, Wales and Ireland tag along too.

[Cryingdick]

Ireland already holds it's own ground in the EU they shield companies like Apple from the taxation nonsense.

[evadgib]

In the last decade or so social media etc has turned British politics on it's head. We need PR, Compulsory voting tied to a modest tax incentive, and votes for life (regardless of geographic location or time abroad) tied to our NI numbers asap.

 

Here's JRM:

 

[elliss]

11 minutes ago, vogie said:

Can we let Scotland, Wales and Ireland tag along too.

            NO way . we love EU. 

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, Basil B said:

On way to get this mess sorted...

 

Cancel Parliament Christmas recess until it is.

 

(Well the creator of our modern parliament did cancel Christmas in the 1640's)

At the risk of being labelled a Scrooge, and given that most people end up giving presents to others that they neither need nor want, it's a pity that they didn't keep with the cancellation really, it destroys an otherwise perfectly acceptable autumn. But, not to drift off topic, there is something else that we neither need nor want for Xmas, which is to hear the word Brexit endlessly on our news bulletins. Any more delay by May as she attempts to re-negociate the un-negociable in order to placate the un-placatable, to support the unsupportable, is hopeless and pointless. As has been pointed out, there are no options attracting 50%+ support in Parliament  or the country, anymore, if there ever were (Given the non voters, etc).

 

However in true Xmas spirit, I will take pleasure in seeing the likelihood of Boris's ambitions coming to anything, being holed below the waterline. Might I suggest that if a turkey is not available, roast Boris should be considered, with Farage stuffing. 

[welovesundaysatspace]

Will the Brexiteers now accept this democratic result and get on with it, or will they keep moaning and try to overturn the result of the vote? The party has spoken; we must now accept it and implement their will. TM got a clear mandate for her deal; 200 by 117. Not implementing it would be undemocratic. 

[Cryingdick]

7 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Will the Brexiteers now accept this democratic result and get on with it, or will they keep moaning and try to overturn the result of the vote? The party has spoken; we must now accept it and implement their will. TM got a clear mandate for her deal; 200 by 117. Not implementing it would be undemocratic. 

So get out of the EU with no deal?

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, Cryingdick said:

So get out of the EU with no deal?

May’s deal, of course. 200:117 is a clear mandate for her and her deal.

[My Thai Life]

41 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Ireland already holds it's own ground in the EU they shield companies like Apple from the taxation nonsense.

It does at the moment. But the next round of ever-closer union sees the EU attempting to force through tax reforms to prevent tax differentiation.

 

This underscores the core problem of the EU: economic union without fiscal union cannot work in the long-term.

 

Fiscal union means for example that the debts, of let's say Greece, must be shared across the EU - principally Germany of course. Germany is baulking at this.

 

So we have a situation where the EU is being steered towards an end-goal the ramifications of which not even Germany accepts.

 

This kind of analysis has been lost in the clamour. But this problem will not go away until there is a true United States of Europe, or substantial EU reform.

[bristolboy]

40 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

Ireland already holds it's own ground in the EU they shield companies like Apple from the taxation nonsense.

Yes. The wealthy and powerful do consider taxation nonsense in that it makes no sense for them to pay taxes and will do whatever it takes, even legally dubious steps, to avoid it.

[evadgib]

33 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Will the Brexiteers now accept this democratic result and get on with it, or will they keep moaning and try to overturn the result of the vote? The party has spoken; we must now accept it and implement their will. TM got a clear mandate for her deal; 200 by 117. Not implementing it would be undemocratic. 

Neither the party nor Parliament are finished yet but it's a bit rich claiming Brexiteers (the ERG?) are in pole position re the moaning...

[bkkcanuck8]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

May’s deal, of course. 200:117 is a clear mandate for her and her deal.

You know that the conservative party members are not the only ones in government. 

 

If was barely able to get the confidence of a portion of her party, that means the overall confidence of the government is pretty overwhelming against PM May (assuming the opposition members of government don't support her).  Basically, she has little to no confidence overall.  Not the best position to be in when you are making history changing changes.

[Basil B]

14 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Will the Brexiteers now accept this democratic result and get on with it, or will they keep moaning and try to overturn the result of the vote? The party has spoken; we must now accept it and implement their will. TM got a clear mandate for her deal; 200 by 117. Not implementing it would be undemocratic. 

They can not call another confidence vote for 12 months.

 

Highly likely she will have stood down by then.

[welovesundaysatspace]

2 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

You know that the conservative party members are not the only ones in government. 

 

If was barely able to get the confidence of a portion of her party, that means the overall confidence of the government is pretty overwhelming against PM May (assuming the opposition members of government don't support her).  Basically, she has little to no confidence overall.  Not the best position to be in when you are making history changing changes.

The question is now whether the 117 will accept the result of the vote and support May’s deal or keep working against it, betraying democracy and the will of the party. 

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

The question is now whether the 117 will accept the result of the vote and support May’s deal or keep working against it, betraying democracy and the will of the party. 

Democracy didn't stop yesterday, now where have I heard that before.????????????

[evadgib]

12 minutes ago, Basil B said:

They can not call another confidence vote for 12 months.

 

Highly likely she will have stood down by then.

If she survives whatever the coming months hold I suspect she'll call it a day in time for her replacement to be unveiled before the 2019 Tory party conference.

[welovesundaysatspace]

7 minutes ago, vogie said:

Democracy didn't stop yesterday, now where have I heard that before.????????????

As I can see, you got the point.