Basil B Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, evadgib said: If she survives whatever the coming months hold I suspect she'll call it a day in time for her replacement to be unveiled before the 2019 Tory party conference. I think she has already said that she just wants to get brexit resolved then she wants to stand down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Hows this for desperate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkcanuck8 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, evadgib said: He may be right, but then if he is right then that would also go for the government in power at this point - and the only way for that to be solved is if the PM May called a leadership campaign that lead directly into a general election campaign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baboon Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, evadgib said: That she can't govern is entirely down to her unruly party of chancers and snake oil salesmen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 34 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said: You know that the conservative party members are not the only ones in government. If was barely able to get the confidence of a portion of her party, that means the overall confidence of the government is pretty overwhelming against PM May (assuming the opposition members of government don't support her). Basically, she has little to no confidence overall. Not the best position to be in when you are making history changing changes. Too bad. 17.4 million people is hardly the most of the people nor the will of the people in UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkcanuck8 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 28 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said: The question is now whether the 117 will accept the result of the vote and support May’s deal or keep working against it, betraying democracy and the will of the party. That almost seems... like a communist point of view party first (democracy within the few) and the people not. The MP is suppose to represent their constituents within his riding (all not just the people that voted for them) within the party/government. Unfortunately party politics have corrupted this to an extent where party discipline is more important than the people you are suppose to represent. It however does not mean that they are there just to poll the riding members and always vote based on that polling since to a certain extent he is voted in to make decisions for us (as opposed to direct democracy) -- which is seen as a full time job with access to information that we don't have access to or don't have time to evaluate on an ongoing basis. It is a delicate balance, but it does mean that the member of parliament should feel free to represent his constituents if the constituents are at odds with May's deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said: That almost seems... like a communist point of view party first (democracy within the few) and the people not. The MP is suppose to represent their constituents within his riding (all not just the people that voted for them) within the party/government. Unfortunately party politics have corrupted this to an extent where party discipline is more important than the people you are suppose to represent. It however does not mean that they are there just to poll the riding members and always vote based on that polling since to a certain extent he is voted in to make decisions for us (as opposed to direct democracy) -- which is seen as a full time job with access to information that we don't have access to or don't have time to evaluate on an ongoing basis. It is a delicate balance, but it does mean that the member of parliament should feel free to represent his constituents if the constituents are at odds with May's deal. You just explained brexit. What is it now? 57 or 62% of the people in UK who want to end this madness and stay with the EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said: He may be right, but then if he is right then that would also go for the government in power at this point - and the only way for that to be solved is if the PM May called a leadership campaign that lead directly into a general election campaign. The fixed term parliament act seemingly prevents this but Corbyn may well trigger a GE after her EU proposal gets hoofed by parliament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, baboon said: That she can't govern is entirely down to her unruly party of chancers and snake oil salesmen... Nearly everyone in the HoC agrees that Mays deal is a bad deal, do you expect MPs to vote for this deal that has taken 2 years to formulate and isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Of course we can blame everyone if we like, Labour has said it would vote down any deal presented to them by Mrs May, but on this occassion I agree with them. Mrs May is the Leader of the Tories and must take full responsibility for her inability to secure a good deal for the country. I have no doubt in my mind that Mrs May has worked very hard and long hours on her deal, but in the end it was substandard work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 29 minutes ago, evadgib said: Hows this for desperate? I was wondering how 315 suddenly became 317. I certainly think it was a shameful thing to reinstate them just so they could vote. But as it is a secret vote nobody will ever know how they voted, I suspect it was more a constitutional thing, the party constitution could be unclear as to whether they had the right to vote on not, the last thing the Tory party wants right now is legal challenges to last night vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Pat Condell makes me laugh even when he's being serious: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IssanMichael Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said: 'Brexit' is the most consequential public policy decision of the last 50+ years in the UK, and there is little consensus. Parliament is divided. The parties are divided. The countries of the UK itself are divided. Business is divided. Civil Society is divided. Labour unions are divided. All the UK is divided. Deciding and implementing such a sweeping policy change under these conditions is pure madness. The common sense thing to do under these circumstances is to put it aside for a lengthy period, but I think that option is also not possible anymore. And, I suspect that things will only get worse; no matter what occurs, bitter divisions will haunt the UK for generations. In my lifetime, I have never seen a country do so much damage to itself, and that includes Trump's America. Hey UK, get your act together or face (literally) decades of dispute, disagreement and discord. I think they should have another vote as those who want her out did not succeed, or would that be wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said: He may be right, but then if he is right then that would also go for the government in power at this point - and the only way for that to be solved is if the PM May called a leadership campaign that lead directly into a general election campaign. A Prim Minister resignation does not automatically trigger a General Election. There are only 2 ways to call a General Election: Quote A motion of no confidence, or censure motion, is a motion moved in the House of Commons with the wording: 'That this House has no confidence in HM Government'. If such a motion is agreed to, and a new government with the support of a majority of MPs cannot be formed within a period of 14 calendar days, Parliament is dissolved and an early General Election is triggered. A motion of no confidence is one of only two ways in which an early General Election may be triggered under the terms of the Fixed Term Parliaments Act 2011 https://www.parliament.uk/site-information/glossary/motion-of-no-confidence/ I suppose 3 ways, if someone was to shoot the the bl00dy lot of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 @Chomper Higgot What confused you about my previous post & why are you again stalking the board with that emoji? If you didn't like it why not suggest support introduce one like this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, bristolboy said: Yes. The wealthy and powerful do consider taxation nonsense in that it makes no sense for them to pay taxes and will do whatever it takes, even legally dubious steps, to avoid it. Are you in the poor and weak camp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 31 minutes ago, evadgib said: The fixed term parliament act seemingly prevents this but Corbyn may well trigger a GE after her EU proposal gets hoofed by parliament. Corbyn can not trigger a General Election, all he can do is table a censure motion, then if successful and a new government with a majority of MP's can not be formed in 14 days, then a general election can be called. He needs to get all the other parties to vote with him, I doubt that will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Who'll survive longer, May or Grouse? ???? Quote The grouse shooting season starts on the 12th August – 10th December in Great Britain, however in Northern Ireland the grouse shooting season runs from the 12th August – 30th November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 47 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said: That almost seems... like a communist point of view party first (democracy within the few) and the people not. The MP is suppose to represent their constituents within his riding (all not just the people that voted for them) within the party/government. Unfortunately party politics have corrupted this to an extent where party discipline is more important than the people you are suppose to represent. It however does not mean that they are there just to poll the riding members and always vote based on that polling since to a certain extent he is voted in to make decisions for us (as opposed to direct democracy) -- which is seen as a full time job with access to information that we don't have access to or don't have time to evaluate on an ongoing basis. It is a delicate balance, but it does mean that the member of parliament should feel free to represent his constituents if the constituents are at odds with May's deal. Hello! Its the Ladybird Book on Meet Your MP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Basil B said: Corbyn can not trigger a General Election, all he can do is table a censure motion, then if successful and a new government with a majority of MP's can not be formed in 14 days, then a general election can be called. He needs to get all the other parties to vote with him, I doubt that will happen. That IS 'triggering an election' is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, evadgib said: That IS 'triggering an election' is it not? As I pointed out highly unlikely, or he would have already don it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, Basil B said: Corbyn can not trigger a General Election, all he can do is table a censure motion, then if successful and a new government with a majority of MP's can not be formed in 14 days, then a general election can be called. He needs to get all the other parties to vote with him, I doubt that will happen. If Corbyn tabled a No Confidence motion with a view to winning, it could only be achieved with the support of the Hard Brexiteers joining the Labour Party in the voting lobbies. In such a scenario more than possible that Labour MPs would refuse to vote with him and that would be the end of him in Parliament if the vote failed. So no go there. Throw in also Hard Brexiteers bringing down the Government and getting Corbyn in return, also a stupid idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 What's with the people who dedicate their avatar to show a photo of UK leaving EU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j8k Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Glad to see the UK sticking with the EU. Would have been stupid to leave just because a xenophobic minority of the country (17m out of 60m) wanted to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 43 minutes ago, vogie said: Nearly everyone in the HoC agrees that Mays deal is a bad deal, do you expect MPs to vote for this deal that has taken 2 years to formulate and isn't worth the paper it is printed on. Of course we can blame everyone if we like, Labour has said it would vote down any deal presented to them by Mrs May, but on this occassion I agree with them. Mrs May is the Leader of the Tories and must take full responsibility for her inability to secure a good deal for the country. I have no doubt in my mind that Mrs May has worked very hard and long hours on her deal, but in the end it was substandard work. So there we have it. Hard Brexiteer votes for Corbyn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, SheungWan said: If Corbyn tabled a No Confidence motion with a view to winning, it could only be achieved with the support of the Hard Brexiteers joining the Labour Party in the voting lobbies. In such a scenario more than possible that Labour MPs would refuse to vote with him and that would be the end of him in Parliament if the vote failed. So no go there. Throw in also Hard Brexiteers bringing down the Government and getting Corbyn in return, also a stupid idea. So are you saying that the Tory Government should vote for a bad deal they don't believe in, just to stop Jeremy Corbyn from achieving greatness, sounds a bit like Hobsons choice to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheungWan Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, vogie said: So are you saying that the Tory Government should vote for a bad deal they don't believe in, just to stop Jeremy Corbyn from achieving greatness, sounds a bit like Hobsons choice to me. I am saying that I want a photo of all you Hard Brexiteers with Jeremy Corbyn in the middle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vogie Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, SheungWan said: I am saying that I want a photo of all you Hard Brexiteers with Jeremy Corbyn in the middle. You are saying nothing basicly, all you have done is come out with on average a 4 word reply to everyone on this thread. Meaningless tripe, you have the ability, why can't you start talking sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 41 minutes ago, oilinki said: What's with the people who dedicate their avatar to show a photo of UK leaving EU? It gives the 2016 silver medalists something to aim at ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, SheungWan said: If Corbyn tabled a No Confidence motion with a view to winning, it could only be achieved with the support of the Hard Brexiteers joining the Labour Party in the voting lobbies. In such a scenario more than possible that Labour MPs would refuse to vote with him and that would be the end of him in Parliament if the vote failed. So no go there. Throw in also Hard Brexiteers bringing down the Government and getting Corbyn in return, also a stupid idea. Unfortunately Labour MP's have already tried to get rid if him... Also most voters are like sheep they vote for the name they have heard of or the first name on the ballot paper, so a name like Abbott is more likely to in an election than a name like Williams. And those people in North Islington think the sun shines out his backside, so he will always be in the house of commons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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