Ulic Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 11 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said: In Canada that result would likely mean the leader of the party would resign. The precedent was set by "Joe Clark" of "Progressive Conservative" party -- who received 70% and then after receiving such a poor review -- and called a full leadership contest (which he participated and lost). Simply put, receiving 63% confidence in you from your own party where it is just a stay or go question -- is actually quite a horrible result. Joe who? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkcanuck8 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Ulic said: Joe who? That is why I had to put quotes around his name, less someone think I misspelled clerk -- and interpreted as "Joe", clerk of the "Progressive Conservative" party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 hours ago, Baerboxer said: You may be right. But however many % now, it's a hard core that won't change it's mind and will keep on claiming the referendum was a once in a lifetime, never to be repeated, never to be challenged or reversed decision. The country must be given the chance to vote again, based on the real information and facts now available. That should be followed by a General Election in which many of those who lied and lied again might find the pubic no longer want them. There is always some percentage of people who truly believe that the Earth is flat and chemtrails are real. We normally tend to ignore those people, quite rightly, for being nuts. This time the populist people with their own agendas managed to get those nutters to the Brexit front. They will not change their mind, but they are really just a very loud minority. The fact that they are just a loud minority is the only reason why Brexit 'leaders' are so afraid to have 2nd referendum or 'informed people's vote'. They are so very afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 30 minutes ago, evadgib said: This seems as good a place as any for this howler: Yes you can always rely on the Australian News Network to deliver the goods on Brexit. Amazing what you can find when you are desperate to defend your argument ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evadgib Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Just now, dunroaming said: Yes you can always rely on the Australian News Network to deliver the goods on Brexit. Amazing what you can find when you are desperate to defend your argument ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, evadgib said: Now the Daily Mirror! ???? I do appreciate your sense of humour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 6 minutes ago, evadgib said: Are you.. trying to tell us something? Go ahead. Be as you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 hours ago, mcambl61 said: the vote was clear, so was the mandate, isn't just like the remainers to call those who disagree names and sling insults Plenty of slinging insults by both sides. It is the nature of this damn Brexit fiasco. Maybe we should all take a breath and try to see that both sides have their reasons for the way they voted and most of those reasons had some validity. We have all been the victims of the lies which is perhaps why feelings are so raw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 It has now been confirmed that May's deal will not be re-presented until the new year. Still can kicking Theresa! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 8 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said: What I know, and what you seem to have misunderstood, is the confidence vote was an internal Tory party issue, nothing to do with Labour, Lib-Dem, SNP, DUP or any other party. The vote secures TM as PM and indicated there is no majority in the Tory party to remove her and replace her with a ‘hard Brexiteer’. Your references to Corbyn et al are irrelevant to the confidence vote that just took place. Nobody in government is now supporting hard Brexit and TM has already mouthed the words ‘or no Brexit’. The Lady is for turning! above, Rees-Mogg is rambling, obviously, he has no experience with statistics, TM did well, no need to see old Liz except for sharing a cuppa (at least as far as this vote is concerned) a party the size of Tory and with the political spread that Tory members have its a fair deal to pull off 200 out of 317 votes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, dunroaming said: The Tories would always rally around their leader if it was a threat from the Labour Party. Given the chaos that reigns in the UK at the moment I think the win for May was decent enough. In reality I couldn't see her being defeated now, contrary to what many people believe, the Rees Mogg / Johnson gang are quite small beer and wouldn't be able to get the numbers to win a leadership challenge. Anyway it is all irrelevant for now as she cannot be challenged again for a year. If May thinks that winning the confidence vote strengthens her case for getting her deal passed then she is mistaken. Unless she can get meaningful changes agreed by the EU then it is still dead in the water. She has bought herself some time but so far that is all. she can not be challenged internally in Tory, but in parliament she can be challenged, any time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 hours ago, vogie said: Can we let Scotland, Wales and Ireland tag along too. NAFTA could probably change name to North Atlantic fta, no, NI could not tag along, Trump ain't no fan of backstops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 hours ago, vogie said: Can we let Scotland, Wales and Ireland tag along too. NAFTA could probably change name to North Atlantic fta, no, NI could not tag along, Trump ain't no fan of backstops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said: May’s deal, of course. 200:117 is a clear mandate for her and her deal. within Tory yes in UK no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dunroaming Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 18 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: she can not be challenged internally in Tory, but in parliament she can be challenged, any time Yes you are quite right, I was just referring to being challenged by her own party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said: The question is now whether the 117 will accept the result of the vote and support May’s deal or keep working against it, betraying democracy and the will of the party. I think that question has been well answered long ago, for example when Tory picked her as PM it has been made very clear over and over since she became PM that tories, in the government and tories not in the government, feel very free not to support her and to do their best to obstruct her plans/doings fairly shitty party if you ask me, members can't even behave when they sit in the cabinet (what was suggested for xmas above, rather than traditional haggis and fish/chips in soggy newspapers, roast Boris with Farage stuffing and Rees-Mogg sauce) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: I think that question has been well answered long ago, for example when Tory picked her as PM it has been made very clear over and over since she became PM that tories, in the government and tories not in the government, feel very free not to support her and to do their best to obstruct her plans/doings fairly shitty party if you ask me, members can't even behave when they sit in the cabinet (what was suggested for xmas above, rather than traditional haggis and fish/chips in soggy newspapers, roast Boris with Farage stuffing and Rees-Mogg sauce) May is determined, that's for sure. What I'm not sure is what is her end game is on this brexit, which seems to be a mess. Is she willing to really push forward the deal, she and thousands of others, negotiated or is she waiting for the UK parliament to grow a pair and say "Enough is enough, we'll end this mess of brexit"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritManToo Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 7 minutes ago, oilinki said: What I'm not sure is what is her end game is on this brexit I always thought her game was to sit in the PMs chair for as long as possible. Get a nice PMs pension, then grab as much money off the back of being a PM as possible. Don't think she really cares about any outcome of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, BritManToo said: I always thought her game was to sit in the PMs chair for as long as possible. Get a nice PMs pension, then grab as much money off the back of being a PM as possible. Don't think she really cares about any outcome of anything. That's possible. These people are so drawn to the power, quite like many successful and less successful CEO etc are, that they tend not to see the real world around them. It's quite unfortunate for the common people, to let these type of people to gain power over their lives. But in this case, she has her game plan done a long time ago. I'm just not sure what it really is. Then again, if she is really the person you suggested and have no real future plan at all, well.. UK is pretty much doomed unless she is thrown out of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, dunroaming said: It has now been confirmed that May's deal will not be re-presented until the new year. Still can kicking Theresa! what, if anything, is stopping parliament from taking the driving seat here? who is the ultimate decision maker in UK? an unelected PM of questionable quality or the parliament? why can't parliament discuss and conclude on the deal without PMs consent? we are talking about the future of the foggy islands now, not some small Tory pet issue, and the parliament is just parked on the benches on the side of the playing field' what a way to run a country, and, no, you are not doing OK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkcanuck8 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: what, if anything, is stopping parliament from taking the driving seat here? who is the ultimate decision maker in UK? an unelected PM of questionable quality or the parliament? why can't parliament discuss and conclude on the deal without PMs consent? we are talking about the future of the foggy islands now, not some small Tory pet issue, and the parliament is just parked on the benches on the side of the playing field' what a way to run a country, and, no, you are not doing OK Simply, the reason why is that although many critisize and try to score political points that when it comes down to it they won't take control of the situation since taking control means taking responsibility... for a situation that is unlikely to have any benefit politically. It is a no-win situation. If there was a win in it, and PM May was just totally incompetent and not being able to accomplish it - she would have been removed -- and everyone and their pet mop would be trying to take responsibility so they can take the win politically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: what, if anything, is stopping parliament from taking the driving seat here? who is the ultimate decision maker in UK? an unelected PM of questionable quality or the parliament? why can't parliament discuss and conclude on the deal without PMs consent? we are talking about the future of the foggy islands now, not some small Tory pet issue, and the parliament is just parked on the benches on the side of the playing field' what a way to run a country, and, no, you are not doing OK I suppose we simply have to understand that democracy, the way we see it being presented, has left the UK few centuries ago and never found it's way back home. There are only few people who actually hold the power over the 66 million people of UK. Just few people, who actually hold the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melvinmelvin Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said: Simply, the reason why is that although many critisize and try to score political points that when it comes down to it they won't take control of the situation since taking control means taking responsibility... for a situation that is unlikely to have any benefit politically. It is a no-win situation. If there was a win in it, and PM May was just totally incompetent and not being able to accomplish it - she would have been removed -- and everyone and their pet mop would be trying to take responsibility so they can take the win politically. ok, can understand that, but if I understand you correctly that quite simply means that parliament is not up to taking care of UK and to clarify, I did not mean that parliament should remove TM, never mind TM and PM assume responsibility - take the issue - debate it - conclude - instruct the government then PM has the option - follow suit or resign or for that matter PM could also choose to obstruct but then should be ditched - swiftly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve73 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, BritManToo said: I always thought her game was to sit in the PMs chair for as long as possible. Get a nice PMs pension, then grab as much money off the back of being a PM as possible. Don't think she really cares about any outcome of anything. No.. She wants a cushy number in the EU governance, followed by a large EU pension... She licks their a$$ and they'll see her right.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 15 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said: assume responsibility - take the issue - debate it - conclude - instruct the government then PM has the option - follow suit or resign Are you trying to push Nordic socialistic model of finding best possible consensus solution as outcome to a problem? I'm not sure our Southern European friends in the UK are yet ready for that kind of advanced coherent way of thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 If anyone really wants to know how this will end up, look at the bookies odds... most are offering 5/4 or there about's for a second referendum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, Basil B said: If anyone really wants to know how this will end up, look at the bookies odds... most are offering 5/4 or there about's for a second referendum. Yes. This is one of the issues where the booking companies are able to predict the future far better than anything else. I suppose that 5/4 equals as 1.25 profit eg if you put 100 in, you'll get just 125 back. Pretty safe bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil B Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, oilinki said: Yes. This is one of the issues where the booking companies are able to predict the future far better than anything else. I suppose that 5/4 equals as 1.25 profit eg if you put 100 in, you'll get just 125 back. Pretty safe bet. I think you get your stake money back so for a £1 stake it would be £2.25... But shush... don't let the mods hear you, it is against the law in Thailand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nakhonandy Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 This vote was a total waste of time, nothing has changed and nothing would have with a change of pm. Simple reason the EU will not change their position, other than possibly the back stop agreement. so she now has to table her amended bill, after promoting it to everyone, and see if that floats. If not I assume it will be no deal, going back for a second vote is not really an option, unless the Brexit deadline is extended beyond March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 11 minutes ago, Basil B said: I think you get your stake money back so for a £1 stake it would be £2.25... But shush... don't let the mods hear you, it is against the law in Thailand. Argh, one more thing I can't understand about British logic. We'll be just quiet and not to use any swear words to be fine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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