Canada warns U.S. not to politicise extradition cases

[webfact]

Canada warns U.S. not to politicise extradition cases

By David Ljunggren

 

Canada's Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland speaks during a news conference in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, December 12, 2018. REUTERS/Chris Wattie

 

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland on Wednesday warned the United States not to politicise extradition cases, a day after President Donald Trump said he could intervene in the affair of a Chinese executive detained in Canada at Washington's request.

 

Freeland also told reporters that a second Canadian citizen could be in trouble in China. Authorities in China are already holding former diplomat Michael Kovrig, who was detained on Monday.

 

Officials say China had so far not linked Kovrig's detention to the arrest in Vancouver on Dec. 1 of Huawei Technologies Co Ltd [HWT.UL] Chief Financial Officer Meng Wanzhou, which infuriated Beijing. But Canadian diplomatic experts have said they have no doubt the two cases are linked.

 

U.S. prosecutors accuse Meng of misleading multinational banks about Iran-linked transactions, putting the banks at risk of violating U.S. sanctions. She has said she is innocent.

 

Trump told Reuters on Tuesday he would intervene https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump/trump-says-would-intervene-in-arrest-of-chinese-executive-idUSKBN1OB01P in the U.S. Justice Department's case against Meng if it would serve national security interests or help close a trade deal with China.

 

Freeland said it was obvious the legal process should not be hijacked for political purposes and that Meng's lawyers would have the option of raising Trump's remarks if they decided to fight extradition.

 

"Our extradition partners should not seek to politicize the extradition process or use it for ends other than the pursuit of justice and following the rule of law," she said when asked about Trump's comments.

 

Her words mark another potentially difficult moment in ties between Canada and the United States, which were heavily strained during more than a year of talks to negotiate a new North American trade pact.

 

Others also questioned whether Trump might be misusing the extradition request.

 

"This is a legal issue and one that appears properly executed but your comments can only diminish an important extradition agreement," said Bruce Heyman, an ex-U.S. ambassador to Canada who was appointed by President Barack Obama, Trump's predecessor.

 

Meng was released on bail by a Canadian court on Tuesday and is next due to appear before a judge on Feb. 6.

 

The United States has not yet made a formal extradition petition. Once it does, if a Canadian judge rules in favour of the request, Canada's justice minister must decide whether to extradite Meng to the United States.

 

Canadian government officials earlier told a briefing that Meng had many legal options to fight extradition and the process could take years.

 

The justice minister could deny the U.S. request if they deem "it has been made for an improper purpose," said one official.

 

The Meng affair has soured Canada's ties with China at a time when Ottawa is trying to boost bilateral trade.

 

Freeland expressed deep concern over the Kovrig case and said a second unnamed man had called Canadian authorities to say Chinese officials were asking him questions.

 

"We have not been able to make contact with him since he let us know about this," she said.

 

"We are working very hard to ascertain his whereabouts and we have also raised this case with the Chinese authorities."

 

The government officials said they had seen an uptick in anti-Canadian sentiment online and in China and have communicated concerns about diplomatic staff safety to the Chinese government, which beefed up security in response.

 

"We have in general informed our personnel in Beijing and in our consulates to take extra precautions," an official said.

 

(Additional reporting by Anna Mehler Paperny, Allison Martell and Denny Thomas in Toronto and Julie Gordon in Vancouver; editing by Bernadette Baum and Rosalba O'Brien)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-12-13

[Cryingdick]

We can only assume as Canada is a sovereign country that they wouldn't arrest anybody if they think the charges are politically motivated.

 

They have full control of their own judiciary.

[zydeco]

Trump has totally caved on the Chinese. This was the most important issue of his presidency.  And it was the only one which generated some bipartisan support--and international support. Now, he has blown it. Now he's Meng's defense attorney??? Pretty soon, he will be asking Xi for a place on the Politburo. 

[Cryingdick]

5 minutes ago, zydeco said:

Trump has totally caved on the Chinese. This was the most important issue of his presidency.  And it was the only one which generated some bipartisan support--and international support. Now, he has blown it. Now he's Meng's defense attorney??? Pretty soon, he will be asking Xi for a place on the Politburo. 

 

Trump is the only guy that has stood up to the Chinese in two decades.  

They are dropping tariffs from 45 to 15% on American cars and bought $180 million of soy beans today.  Other than that it's $2 a gallon for gas.

 

Meanwhile the US hasn't given any concessions. This is just the start.

[zydeco]

14 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Trump is the only guy that has stood up to the Chinese in two decades.  

They are dropping tariffs from 45 to 15% on American cars and bought $180 million of soy beans today.  Other than that it's $2 a gallon for gas.

 

Meanwhile the US hasn't given any concessions. This is just the start.

They were buying soybeans before all this started. Car tariffs were at 15 percent before all this started. Just what have they given up?  I supported Trump because I hoped for a trade war. This is not just about trade deficits; it's about the survival of the nation and the West.  Selling soybeans, natural gas, oil, gasoline, timber, pork, and other natural/agricultural resources for Chinese made computers, hi-tech hardware, and other finished goods is the model for a colony providing raw material to its imperial master. This "deal" is a joke, just a continuation of what existed before, after all the yelling and shouting. Meanwhile, no designating China a currency manipulator, either. Frankly, the US would have been better off facing down China with the TPP than this weak "deal" Trump is now promising.

[Cryingdick]

57 minutes ago, zydeco said:

They were buying soybeans before all this started. Car tariffs were at 15 percent before all this started. Just what have they given up?  I supported Trump because I hoped for a trade war. This is not just about trade deficits; it's about the survival of the nation and the West.  Selling soybeans, natural gas, oil, gasoline, timber, pork, and other natural/agricultural resources for Chinese made computers, hi-tech hardware, and other finished goods is the model for a colony providing raw material to its imperial master. This "deal" is a joke, just a continuation of what existed before, after all the yelling and shouting. Meanwhile, no designating China a currency manipulator, either. Frankly, the US would have been better off facing down China with the TPP than this weak "deal" Trump is now promising.

You are so wrong on so many levels that I won't bother with a rebuttal. We aren't going to see eye to eye.

[DaddyWarbucks]

Washington's use of its economic clout to coerce the rest of the world reflects extraordinary hubris. Americans would be outraged if another country did the same to them.

Meng's arrest in Canada is a stark declaration by the Trump administration that it expects to dictate to every other nation, no matter how powerful. China and other countries are ever less willing to comply. A backlash is certain. When it comes, it's likely to do far more than undermine American efforts to isolate Iran.

[Lung Khao]

In the meantime:

 

Michael Spavor: Second Canadian 'missing' in China

•  

"Canada's foreign ministry says it is trying to make contact with a second Canadian who is believed to have been detained in China...It comes after former diplomat Michael Kovrig was arrested in China this week...Chinese state media have reported that Mr Kovrig is being held "on suspicion of engaging in activities that harm China's state security..."

 

Looks like that is where somebody got caught.

[blazes]

The arrest of Meng amply illustrates the extent to which Canada is (and always has been since WW2) a minion of the United States.  (Plus, Canada having done the business for America at Vancouver Airport, Trump then goes and blows it by suggesting that he can interfere with the judicial system of another country!!)

 

Ah well, I wonder who in Canada will get to spend the $10 million she forfeits when she jumps bail.  More bling for Justin?

[car720]

6 hours ago, zydeco said:

Trump has totally caved on the Chinese. This was the most important issue of his presidency.  And it was the only one which generated some bipartisan support--and international support. Now, he has blown it. Now he's Meng's defense attorney??? Pretty soon, he will be asking Xi for a place on the Politburo. 

How right you are.  Even the Chinese are calling Xi's regime and evil one. (behind closed doors)  This was the chance that the whole world saw was worth taking in order to confront these people but Trump just bent all the way over.  Damn.

[car720]

7 hours ago, webfact said:

U.S. prosecutors accuse Meng of misleading multinational banks about Iran-linked transactions, putting the banks at risk of violating U.S. sanctions.

Apart from HSBC maybe, who owns all the banks in the world that would have a hard on about Iran.  Here is the underbelly of this thing.

[from the home of CC]

I love my country but it doesn't have the juice to 'warn' anybody.

[bristolboy]

7 hours ago, zydeco said:

They were buying soybeans before all this started. Car tariffs were at 15 percent before all this started. Just what have they given up?  I supported Trump because I hoped for a trade war. This is not just about trade deficits; it's about the survival of the nation and the West.  Selling soybeans, natural gas, oil, gasoline, timber, pork, and other natural/agricultural resources for Chinese made computers, hi-tech hardware, and other finished goods is the model for a colony providing raw material to its imperial master. This "deal" is a joke, just a continuation of what existed before, after all the yelling and shouting. Meanwhile, no designating China a currency manipulator, either. Frankly, the US would have been better off facing down China with the TPP than this weak "deal" Trump is now promising.

In fact, China contributes very little to the value of the high tech hardware that comes from there. Last figure I saw was 3 percent. The most advanced parts come from somewhere else. China is mainly an assembly center. That also means that the value of Chinese exports to the USA is greatly overestimated. A lot of that deficit is really with the countries where the parts are manufactures.And some of those parts, usually the most expensive ones, actually come from the USA.

[keemapoot]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

In fact, China contributes very little to the value of the high tech hardware that comes from there. Last figure I saw was 3 percent. The most advanced parts come from somewhere else. China is mainly an assembly center. That also means that the value of Chinese exports to the USA is greatly overestimated. A lot of that deficit is really with the countries where the parts are manufactures.And some of those parts, usually the most expensive ones, actually come from the USA.

Actually, the battle is not about hardware anymore. In spite of being the world's largest supplier of communication equipment (largely thanks to technology stolen from Cisco), the battle is over cloud services and AI, and Huawei figures prominently in Cloud services. In fact, until recently, Canada was the top market worldwide for cloud computing. The US, Japan, etc., are already spoken for by the likes of Cisco. Canada has been reluctant to adopt Huawei for political and security reasons and this current situation makes this even more acute.

[pegman]

Once Trump opened his mouth and said this lady was a negotiating pawn she should have been released and sent on her way. If Trudeau allows Canada to be used by Trump he is dead politically. Trump has a 9% approval in Canada, 80% hate him and 11% are likely too stoned to care. 

[Pedrogaz]

Reading the comments one might think that we are living in a parallel universe. The US sanctions are illegal and China never signed on to them. Y=The US has no jurisdiction over China, but it is trying to make its laws apply to everyone on the planet. This is the thinking of an empire, not an ally.

[Nilats]

Most people don't understand how the process works... the decision whether to let her go or not can only be made during the extradition hearing - the process which could take as long as 10 years. At that hearing - all these arguments can be made, and her lawyer needs to submit evidence if anyone believes this was politically motivated, etc... I'm not lawyer, but this is basic stuff. She's very lucky that they granted her bail - waiting 10 years at a Canadian Correctional facility would have literally driven her insane or killed her - I don't think she was cut out for kind of environment. There are literally people with severe drug addiction, violence and mental problems.

[Nilats]

So she will effectively be tried in Canada first - the extradition hearing will be a very exciting and lengthy process with millions of people following it around the world. Canada didn't really have a choice about it. Chinese officials are acting like thugs in this case - they don't understand how the judicial system works - so they just started kidnapping people - this just shows what China really is.

[300sd]

Won't be connecting through Hong Kong for awhile!

[owl sees all]

2 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Reading the comments one might think that we are living in a parallel universe. The US sanctions are illegal and China never signed on to them. Y=The US has no jurisdiction over China, but it is trying to make its laws apply to everyone on the planet. This is the thinking of an empire, not an ally.

 

This could have been sorted out diplomatically. The world (through general media) would have been none the wiser. But it was deliberately elevated to 'high profile'. This had been planned some time ago and the US has simply chosen the time to act when It feels it is most beneficial (for the US) to do so.

 

So what is the US thinking? Well for starters the US is under pressure from losing respect as the top world dog. It sees China - and rightly so - as a serious competitor in different ways. One being - and I think by far the most important IMO - the threat to the dollar if China, Russia etc do business and stop settling in dollars. Iran! Yes, Iran. Forget big bombs. It's big oil finding its way to Russia and China that the US does not like. They are trying, as so often before, to bully the opposition into submission, and if that means bending the rules or even making up new ones then so be it.

 

This whole thing, IMO, is about the US sending out the warning "Do as you are told or else!" I do not believe China will fold and bend the knee like many before them. I agree that this is an action of a country hanging on to their empire.

 

Watch, and listen, for much more demonizing of US's rivals.

[Tug]

Donald has no rite to try to bulley another country to bow to his demands he does have a rite to his opinion we all know the Chinese cheat on trade it will take a team effort to bring them in line something Donald has no skill in creating

[Nilats]

I don't really know if I'm helping with my comments. But I had a Vancouver lawyer who was my roommate when he was studying for his law degree at UBC - we were very close friends back in the day, for that reason I know quite a bit about how the legal system works in Canada. I had a friend whose girlfriend was a police officer in BC - and the spirit is as I know if her boyfriend committed an offense - she would personally take him to the station - that's the type of society it is in Canada. So it's not bowing down to anybody - just people following their procedures and work ethic as they should be...  they have their strict instructions and procedures and they don't have a choice about them, I see nothing more than that so far on Canada's side at least - everything is as it would be expected according to Canada's law enforcement and judicial system. Since Ms. Meng didn't even have a diplomatic passport - Canada is just following its very basic procedures so far in this case exactly as it should be doing imo.

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, owl sees all said:

This could have been sorted out diplomatically. The world (through general media) would have been none the wiser. But it was deliberately elevated to 'high profile'. This had been planned some time ago and the US has simply chosen the time to act when It feels it is most beneficial (for the US) to do so.

 

So what is the US thinking? Well for starters the US is under pressure from losing respect as the top world dog. It sees China - and rightly so - as a serious competitor in different ways. One being - and I think by far the most important IMO - the threat to the dollar if China, Russia etc do business and stop settling in dollars. Iran! Yes, Iran. Forget big bombs. It's big oil finding its way to Russia and China that the US does not like. They are trying, as so often before, to bully the opposition into submission, and if that means bending the rules or even making up new ones then so be it.

 

This whole thing, IMO, is about the US sending out the warning "Do as you are told or else!" I do not believe China will fold and bend the knee like many before them. I agree that this is an action of a country hanging on to their empire.

 

Watch, and listen, for much more demonizing of US's rivals.

Just because you are obsessed with the dollar that doesn't mean that other countries are. The dollar is strong because the US economy is strong and the US is seen as a save haven for savings. The conspiratorial stuff is nonsense. It leads people to make absurd projections like the US dollar will collapse by december of 2018 or that a major war will break out to support its value. But I guess it's like Christianity. If you believe Jesus is coming back soon, as the Christian Bible says, and he doesn't, you can always find a way to explain it away.

[MalandLee]

It seems to me that USA and Canada are criticised for the detention of a wealthy Chinese person. 

 

Little noise about those USA/Canadians detained By China - with impunity it seems?

One of MANY sources: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/12/world/asia/china-foreigners-detained.html

 

 

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

 

[Hank Gunn]

15 hours ago, Pedrogaz said:

Reading the comments one might think that we are living in a parallel universe. The US sanctions are illegal and China never signed on to them. Y=The US has no jurisdiction over China, but it is trying to make its laws apply to everyone on the planet. This is the thinking of an empire, not an ally.

Sorry, you're way off base. The US has sanctions in place that prevent the sale or transfer of US technology to Iran (and N. Korea). This is in the contract(s) that Huawei and other multinational corps sign whenever they buy or license certain US originated technology. (In this case it was computer equipment from the US company H/P.) China, or any other country for that matter, can do what they want, however, once they sold on US-originated equipment to Iran, they broke those contracts. Read up more on this topic, rather than making posts based on your emotional dislike of the US. Below is a post that I made on another thread in this topic on TV, China Calls on Canada to free Huawei CFO or face consequences.

 

Actually, the accusations here are a lot more clear if you do a little research/reading.

From a WSJ article, Canadian Authorities Arrest CFO of Huawei Technologies at US Request:

"

In 2007, Ms. Meng served as a board secretary for a Huawei holding company that owned Skycom Tech, a Hong Kong company with business in Iran and employees who said they worked for “Huawei-Skycom,” according to a person familiar with the matter.

U.S. authorities have suspected Huawei’s alleged involvement in Iranian sanctions violations since at least 2016, when the U.S. investigated ZTE Corp., Huawei’s smaller Chinese rival, over similar allegations."

 

From another article in the WSJ: Huawei Under Criminal Investigation Over Iran Sanctions

 

”Last year, Huawei rival ZTE agreed to pay $892 million in penaltiesimposed by the Justice, Commerce and Treasury departments related to sanctions busting. The company pleaded guilty and admitted it violated a law that controls the export of sensitive goods by shipping U.S. telecom equipment to Iran.”