Jump to content

What's the point to 'seasoning' retirement funds


Recommended Posts

It will be interesting to see if immigration will wave the 3 month seasonings rule next year in situations where someone who has made several years of extensions using the income letter and shows up at Immigration unprepared and unable to show acceptable 65k/m “proof”... Will Immigration say transfer 800k here from home country and come back in a week or no extensions?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, overherebc said:

How many expats in Pattaya alone?

Let's say all of them season 800,000 baht + ( Yes I know agents get around it. )

All that money sitting there, guess what the banks can make on it.

All of them do not season their 800K at the same time and not all of them use this 800K as proof for financials.  Hence the variable total amount of these 800K sitting inside many banks at different times in any given 1 year hardly amount to a drop in the ocean .... ????

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

That's for retirees, I am still struggling to see the justification of the 400k for marriage extension, since these people have families here, hence local support in case of problems. They are not long term tourists, they are (should be) integral parts of Thai society.

400K is a fair amount since the wife's income is a source of financial support, not suggesting that the wife be used as a source of income.  800K's unmarried retirees do not have this option, officially I mean ....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, amse said:

Of course it's just another BS game, like why all of a sudden did the amount jump from 400,000 to 800,000 baht in the bank? Raising it maybe to 500,000 baht would maybe make sense, so why twice the amount? So it's a scam hatched between the politicians and the banks.

The 400K or 800K a year is an amount considered sufficient for the retiree to support himself financially while living in this country on a retirement extension.  This amount has not increase for some time and is not indexed against inflation.  That been said 800K currently is worth less than the same amount in real terms a few years ago ....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, amse said:

Of course it's just another BS game, like why all of a sudden did the amount jump from 400,000 to 800,000 baht in the bank? Raising it maybe to 500,000 baht would maybe make sense, so why twice the amount? So it's a scam hatched between the politicians and the banks.

Maybe because the Baht to the $$ almost tripled in 1977, it went from 20 baht to 59 Baht(official) 66-70 at the Jewelry stores)........the banks and Immigration decided this was a way to get it back??  Ubon Joe posted a time line some time back showing what the amounts were over the years.  Mute point, because now they want 800,000 baht seasoned for two months, then three months after first extension.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, digger70 said:

Some agents Supply the money ,but one pays dearly for that.

I wouldn't call 15k for dearly , they arrange everything and all you have to do is show up at the office. 

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

I reckon they are amazingly lenient. To make sense it should be permanent guarantee held in some interest bearing government fund. In case of emergency, withdrawal could be allowed for medical treatment, repatriation, etc. Designation of beneficiaries, foreign or local, in case of death should be part of the package. Look at M2H if you want to get the drift. That's for retirees, I am still struggling to see the justification of the 400k for marriage extension, since these people have families here, hence local support in case of problems. They are not long term tourists, they are (should be) integral parts of Thai society.

You seem to miss the fact that NOTHING done by Thai Immigration is done for OUR benefit. It is a money-making scheme to rival anything that organized crime could conceive of. Circumventing the law is a tactic that only works for "law enforcement" officials. If YOU try something similar, it is a felony. I am reminded of a story told to me by a friend who went to immigration some years back and was making friendly conversation with an officer that he knew and the officer was reportedly "horrified" when he learned that Americans had to pay something like fifty USD for an income affidavit. The reason that the officer was "horrified" was that he realized that this was money that could be going into the pockets of workers like him. It had nothing to do with "empathy" as interpreted by my friend. This is the reason that agents are a cash-cow that will be around for a long, long time.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, balo said:

I wouldn't call 15k for dearly , they arrange everything and all you have to do is show up at the office. 

 

I consider this 15K a godsend.  2 years ago I came to know of using this agent method to do the 800K seasoning.  Since I already have enough money to do this for that year, I did a simulated costs with funds from overseas for that 3 months.  Coupled with the difference in exchange rates and fees at that time, I would have lost a whopping 55,000b!

Edited by farangx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, farangx said:

I consider this 15K a godsend.  2 years ago I came to know of using this agent method to do the 800K seasoning.  Since I already have enough money to do this for that year, I did a simulated costs with funds from overseas for that 3 months.  Coupled with the difference in exchange rates and fees at that time, I would have lost a whopping 55,000b!

Sure would like to see that calculation. 6.9% lost in fees and exchange?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

26 minutes ago, timendres said:

Sure would like to see that calculation. 6.9% lost in fees and exchange?

No problem, I had in mind to close an account I have in Singapore 2 years ago, at the time of my 800K seasoning, their central preferred a cheap SGD.  2 months into that their central bank boosted the dollar and by the end of that 3 months, I would have lost 2 baht on the dollar, about 66,000b excluding fees.  I quoted less in my earlier post because I did not want to shock anybody.  Early this year while in transit there, I got out, close that account, did some shopping and took some cash back here with me.

Edited by farangx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Makes sense - an inexpensive form of insurance could cover this for every foreigner in the country - stabilize-only for sickness and accident followed by immediate repatriation, but could also cover criminal penalties and subsequent repatriation.  The cost would be directly-relative to the permit-of-stay being issued. 

At that point, the other requirements would be unnecessary, saving a huge amount of time and effort on all sides.

 

The problem with doing it on an insurance basis is the requirement that the risk be fairly evenly distributed among the participants, or that the costs be adjusted for risk factors like criminality, drunken behavior, financial responsibility, etc. 

 

We all know that some foreigners are at greater risk than others.  It would end up with the good guys subsidizing the guys that shouldn't be in Thailand at all.

 

Edit:  You can argue the numbers and the requirements themselves, and debate the role of agencies.  But the current system is fair (in theory anyway) in that each candidate sinks or swims on their own ability to meet the financial requirements.

 

Edited by impulse
Link to comment
Share on other sites

24 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

The problem with doing it on an insurance basis is the requirement that the risk be fairly evenly distributed among the participants, or that the costs be adjusted for risk factors like criminality, drunken behavior, financial responsibility, etc. 

 

We all know that some foreigners are at greater risk than others.  It would end up with the good guys subsidizing the guys that shouldn't be in Thailand at all.

 

Edit:  You can argue the numbers and the requirements themselves, and debate the role of agencies.  But the current system is fair (in theory anyway) in that each candidate sinks or swims on their own ability to meet the financial requirements.

 

I prefer individual accountability when possible, but insurance is generally a "risk pool" sort of activity.  In this case, it's primary purpose would be to insulate Thailand from any financial-downside to expats being here, thus reducing that tool to tar us with (highlighting the one among thousands who ends up in long-term hospital care without money or robs a bank).

Another way to do it would be to provide a reduced-rate with an optional deductible of 100K Baht or more (different rates depending), held in escrow, and redeemable at the airport upon departure.  That would reduce premiums to the point that harm to long-staying non-risk-takers / law-abiding types would be minimized.

 

The current system, even if based on "money in the bank" - and even if no agent is involved - only provides a guarantee of money in Thailand for 3-mo tops.  And during that time, assuming it can be accessed, it is not enough to cover costs for the more expensive situations, but overkill for the more common.

Edited by JackThompson
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I prefer individual accountability when possible, but insurance is generally a "risk pool" sort of activity.  In this case, it's primary purpose would be to insulate Thailand from any financial-downside to expats being here, thus reducing that tool to tar us with (highlighting the one among thousands who ends up in long-term hospital care without money or robs a bank).

Another way to do it would be to provide a reduced-rate with an optional deductible of 100K Baht or more (different rates depending), held in escrow, and redeemable at the airport upon departure.  That would reduce premiums to the point that harm to long-staying non-risk-takers / law-abiding types would be minimized.

 

On that, we agree.  But that's a tangent to the topic of seasoning requirements.

 

Staying on that tangent, if anyone wants a reality check, they should look at their airplane ticket from the USA, UK or Europe to Thailand, and figure out who got over 80% of the taxes they paid.  Here's a hint.  It wasn't paid to Thailand.  Thailand would have to quadruple their airport taxes to even come close to the Nanny States. 

 

So I agree that adding a few bucks to every international arrival ticket to cover the national cost of an occasional tragedy would be a good idea.  On a typical $1,000 ticket, a few bucks would get lost in the noise.  But multiply that by 30 million arrivals, and maybe the government hospitals would be able to save more lives.

 

And they'd have one less thing to tar us all with...

 

Edited by impulse
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, overherebc said:

How many expats in Pattaya alone?

Let's say all of them season 800,000 baht + ( Yes I know agents get around it. )

All that money sitting there, guess what the banks can make on it.

well so what, it just means that the leaches in banks in the West are not getting it (and giving back at ridiculously low interest rates)  and the Thais are,  (with better returns on savings accounts) either way we the savers get screwed. 

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Glenn Roe said:

As usual I am confused.  Is the 800K still required if you can prove a 65K monthly income going into a Thai bank? 

We don't know what they will accept in the future.  The "My IO told me" reports are not encouraging, but a top-down order from Bangkok could change that.  I have read one confirmed case (on this forum) of a person getting an extension in-person at immigration (Mukdahan) without an embassy-letter. 

 

31 minutes ago, Glenn Roe said:

Also, what is an estimated price for having an agent take care of it?

Reported cheapest 13K in Pattaya on Soi Bukow Rd.  Evidently more elsewhere, with 25K or so often being quoted - but I haven't used an agent (yet, anyway - hopefully won't need to, if PlanA: Foreign-xfers to a Thai bank are accepted or PlanB: The Non-O-ME remains viable), so just going by what is reported on this forum. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, timendres said:

Sure would like to see that calculation. 6.9% lost in fees and exchange?

Had exchange rates moved the other way potentially he could have made money. If I leave mine in the UK the interest is actually much less than I get in Thailand. Exchange rates, I can do nothing about nor predict so I don't fret over it. The cost for me to txfer 800k, is 500 baht, once, in 10 years so far!

 

I am not paying 15-20k a year for an illegal service unnecessarily!

Edited by jacko45k
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Members of many Thai institutions pool their funds, Universities have clubs contributed to by the many to fund individuals at times of financial stress so the concept of pooling resources is not as outlandish to Thais as it seems to us. The three months ‘seasoning’ effectively restricts the members of the ‘expat extenders club’ to three, or the actual cash reserves of any one of them approximately 266000 Bt and this is deemed acceptable. In the case of ‘agents’ 250000 Bt. (average) is deemed sufficient.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 hours ago, overherebc said:

How many expats in Pattaya alone?

Let's say all of them season 800,000 baht + ( Yes I know agents get around it. )

All that money sitting there, guess what the banks can make on it.

This is what I've been thinking and saying from day one. When I look at what has happened in the last few months I still haven't heard a single thing from the government as to why the questioned was even raised. Last month I went and got my affidavit and compared it with a number of old copies that I made and it has always be stated the Embassy can't verify or guarantee the verification.

Another question I have is the due method which is half the amount seasoned and half income who created and when and why one now can't use that even if they do it under a Thai bank?

Last, I was talking to my brother who has for sometime arranged through the New York HQ Bangkok Bank with S.S. to have his pension deposited it is then transferred to his Bangkok Bank account here in Pattaya. His payment arrives around the 5th of every month, as I remember the International rate was something like 32.75-80 that week. I don't expect to get that rate but something after conversion something in the 32.00? but based on our discussion he said he got 48,000 baht my math puts the rate he was given at something 31.50, I got a withdraw receipt from Aeon around that same period 32.40 out of their ATM.

 

If this is all true not only are they getting Interest on money for being seasoned by loaning it out they are giving a much lower conversion rate than an ATM, somehow something just smell to high heaven but being in Thailand it shouldn't be a surprise.????

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, balo said:

I wouldn't call 15k for dearly , they arrange everything and all you have to do is show up at the office. 

 

Based on personal experience a few years back, B15k seems awfully LOW. Where can it be done for 15k? Back then, the lowest price (I found) was twice that in BKK. 20k in Patts with already acquired Embassy Income Letter. 

Edited by Skeptic7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, Rawairat said:

Has anyone tried transferring B65,000 between to local Thai accounts to see if that will satisfy Immigration? This was my plan in my daily account and if it doesn't work show them the K800??

A cunning plan that has no chance of ever working.

 

It's not income.

 

You have no backup documents.

 

if it is supposed to be income in Thailand then you must have a work permit and income tax papers. But on that extension you are not permitted to work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said:

Based on personal experience a few years back, B15k seems awfully LOW. Where can it be done for 15k?Back then, the lowest price was twice that in BKK. 20k in Patts with already acquired Embassy Income Letter. 

Not sure why anyone with an embassy-letter using "retirement" would have used an agent in Jomtien - the retirement desk there was/is easy-going, so the cost would have been 1900 Baht in-person.  For the family-desk or Non-O desk there - that's a different story (not friendly), so this may have been why someone with a valid embassy-letter would need to pay an agent.

 

Also, prices fluctuated in the last few yrs.  Some recent Jomtien agent-reports are in comments within this thread, with the Soi Bukow crop seeming to be the cheapest:

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1070647-copy-shop-next-to-jomtien-io-is-certifying-income-documents/

 

Bangkok agents are likely more, but they do things "by the book" in-person for all services, so will only be an issue for honest-applicants who won't be able to get an embassy letter in the future, depending on what they will or will not accept to demonstrate income.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I came to the conclusion it is something made up between big immigration guy and his friends big bank guys . If you think about the amount of money that must sit in banks over the year not being touched then im sure the banks win and for making up this rule mr immigration gets a good back scratch in return !

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Skeptic7 said:

Based on personal experience a few years back, B15k seems awfully LOW. Where can it be done for 15k? Back then, the lowest price (I found) was twice that in BKK. 20k in Patts with already acquired Embassy Income Letter. 

As stated above, there is a (reliable) agent on soi Buakao, Pattaya, doing it for 13k...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.





×
×
  • Create New...