Girl dies after being detained by U.S. Border Patrol: Washington Post

[Nyezhov]

5 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

With all due respect, your assumption is ridiculous, the US will collapse one day just like all empires before them, and that will not result in there being nowhere left to go, thats just American centric nonsense, another great empire will simply have taken there place, but will they take the Americans in, that is the question.

Your post, above and beyond its anti Americanism, shows an astonishing lack of knowledge about history and indeed, the modern world. Mad Max apocalyptic fantasies aside, when the US goes, all the rest falls like dominoes. That will stop Global warming at least.

[Nyezhov]

2 minutes ago, Opl said:

The last hours of Jakelin Caal Maquin

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/15/us/guatemalan-girl-death-timeline/index.html

So how does that timeline show the Border Patrol at fault?

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.   Please stay on topic.    Brain farts and diversions do not count as part of the thread.

 

[Credo]

We know that the culture of cruelty exists, here's one example:

 

Video shows border agents destroying water sources for migrants:

 

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/video-shows-border-agents-dumping-water-left-for-migrants-1144118339539?fbclid=IwAR20rQbCI78K8GQbHrT2WNhCnmjHkMV3qdcEjkSIQ_Ef3HKr_CKwmIkTLXs

[EVENKEEL]

On the news it talked about the parents not laying any blame on the Border Patrol.

[simple1]

20 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

I disagree. No one forced these folks to cross the border where they crossed. They could have gone to the nearest port of entry and waited their turn.

 

Quoting an agenda organziation source does not support your argument, especially where they quote statistics to prove causation. Look at the difference between NYC and Atlanta. Does that quoted statistic take into account the differences between the two ports of entry in those areas. Perhaps it reflects that validity of the underlying claims by the asylum seekers? Could it be that NYC handles more "true" refugees, ie: folks from the Middle East, Africa, Russia, which is why they grant more claims there?

You moved a long way from your original false claim...

 

Under the law, these people aren't entitled to asylum.

 

Again many subjective claims by you in the above reflecting opinion, not facts.

[Scott]

1 hour ago, EVENKEEL said:

On the news it talked about the parents not laying any blame on the Border Patrol.

At least initial reports have said the father did not blame the Border Police for the death.  

 

Until there is a full investigation, it is going to be hard to ascertain what exactly happened.   This young girl arrives, in what appears to be reasonably good health, and quickly becomes ill.  

 

The father is now demanding a full investigation.   I think that is a normal reaction from a parent.  

[kannot]

On 12/14/2018 at 10:44 AM, bkkcanuck8 said:

Obviously they forgot the first rule of good hosts... offer your guest a drink...

or dont subject your 7 year old to an arduous  illegal journey..............parental abuse

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

You moved a long way from your original false claim...

 

Under the law, these people aren't entitled to asylum.

I would again quote you the relevant statutes, plus the fact that 80% o asylum claims are denied, plus the statements of these folks to the media that they are fleeing crime and poverty. Under the law, they are not entitled to asylum.

 

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Again many subjective claims by you in the above reflecting opinion, not facts.

I made no claims, I made alternative choices for you to consider.  Those who arent willing to explore assertions based on statistics and to question the validity of policies derived from or advocated for on the basis of those statistics demonstrate they are not willing to move beyond their preconceived notions.

[Nyezhov]

57 minutes ago, Scott said:

Until there is a full investigation, it is going to be hard to ascertain what exactly happened.   This young girl arrives, in what appears to be reasonably good health, and quickly becomes ill.  

 

The father is now demanding a full investigation.   I think that is a normal reaction from a parent.  

Agreed: There should be a full investigation anytime ANYONE dies in any custody. And thats regardless of whether anyone requests it.

 

And the death of this child raises some issues that no one seems to address (although I gave one fellow an opening to address it), such as:

 

Are BP Officers cross EMT trained? Do they have revival equipment (Oxygen, Defibrillators, IV) in these rural areas? In light of the perilous nature of this journey, if they arent EMT trained, should they be? Should health screening for individuals arrested in the desert be implemented or changed? 

[Scott]

1 hour ago, Nyezhov said:

Agreed: There should be a full investigation anytime ANYONE dies in any custody. And thats regardless of whether anyone requests it.

 

And the death of this child raises some issues that no one seems to address (although I gave one fellow an opening to address it), such as:

 

Are BP Officers cross EMT trained? Do they have revival equipment (Oxygen, Defibrillators, IV) in these rural areas? In light of the perilous nature of this journey, if they arent EMT trained, should they be? Should health screening for individuals arrested in the desert be implemented or changed? 

Some interesting points.   Thanks for posting it.  

 

As saddened as I am about the death of this girl, and as convinced as I am that it could have been handled better, it's a judgement call on the part of officials as to what is the best course of action.   Septic shock can be quick.   I had a close friend who got bit by a cat and within a half hour, it was moving up his arm.   He was in a city, in Thailand, and went to the closest hospital, by which time it had moved into his upper arm.   He received immediate medical attention and was told that had he not come when he did, it might have been fatal.

 

Other than sending for an ambulance to meet them enroute or having her airlifted immediately, I am not sure the outcome would have been different.  

 

It is important than anyone crossing the border, illegally (and sometimes legally, such as is done at airports), a cursory health screening should be conducted.   During the SARS outbreak as well as a few others, people with a fever were detained.  

 

They do have those nifty little machines with heat sensors that will detect anyone with a fever walking by.  

[Nyezhov]

14 minutes ago, Scott said:

Other than sending for an ambulance to meet them enroute or having her airlifted immediately, I am not sure the outcome would have been differen

Exactly. Its good to see that someone recognizes how dangerous being in these areas is and how difficult a rescue is. Assume for purposes of argument that they called for a medical chopper while they were at Antelope Wells and the chopper came from El Paso, say, Fort Bliss. Thats 140 air miles since I dont think a med chopper can necesssarily cross the border to cut down fly time. Thats over an hour flight at chopper speed of 120mph. Add 10-15 minutes to get off the ground and you have 1 1/2 hours just to get to where she was. Take off 15 minutes maybe if they met half way. Obviously, the optimal solution would be to have a med evac chopper stationed closer...but the cost and expense would be enormous as Med evac choppers generally require hospital infrastructure.

 

Its easy to criticize actions in a crisis, but sometimes impossible to solve the problems inherent in that crisis.

[Cryingdick]

It makes me happy to see that some sense of reason has progressed in a thread that started out pretty ugly.

[simple1]

5 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

statements of these folks to the media that they are fleeing crime and poverty. Under the law, they are not entitled to asylum. <SNIP>

Most Western countries have humanitarian visas, as does the USA.

 

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian

 

I do recall the trump regime endeavoured to revoke some humanitarian visa criteria covered in the above link, unsure whether US Courts have enabled the act of cruelty.

 

 

[zydeco]

20 hours ago, Hummin said:

If all immigrants had respected the natives in America, there would not been any USA! Think about that! What have changed since the first immigrants crossed the sea with dreams of new and better life? People in rural and poor countries without human rights, have not stopped dreaming!

I find your views fascinating and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. 

[simple1]

3 hours ago, Scott said:

Some interesting points.   Thanks for posting it.  

 

As saddened as I am about the death of this girl, and as convinced as I am that it could have been handled better, it's a judgement call on the part of officials as to what is the best course of action.   Septic shock can be quick.   I had a close friend who got bit by a cat and within a half hour, it was moving up his arm.   He was in a city, in Thailand, and went to the closest hospital, by which time it had moved into his upper arm.   He received immediate medical attention and was told that had he not come when he did, it might have been fatal.

 

Other than sending for an ambulance to meet them enroute or having her airlifted immediately, I am not sure the outcome would have been different.  

 

It is important than anyone crossing the border, illegally (and sometimes legally, such as is done at airports), a cursory health screening should be conducted.   During the SARS outbreak as well as a few others, people with a fever were detained.  

 

They do have those nifty little machines with heat sensors that will detect anyone with a fever walking by.  

I speculate whether the trump administration calls for more border control funding includes additional medical orientated line items and resources. I would assume front line Border Control staff already have basic medical training. Would not be overly challenging to put in place video links for diagnostic / advice purposes to stabilise and so on, as medical services do in Australia for remote locations.

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Most Western countries have humanitarian visas, as does the USA.

 

https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian

 

I do recall the trump regime endeavoured to revoke some humanitarian visa criteria covered in the above link, unsure whether US Courts have enabled the act of cruelty.

 

 

I Dont see where living in a shithole country is covered by humanitarian visas. But hey, if you want the entire population of Central America to come to the US, remember to raise it at election time. ????

[simple1]

2 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

I Dont see where living in a shithole country is covered by humanitarian visas. But hey, if you want the entire population of Central America to come to the US, remember to raise it at election time. ????

Preferable for you to read the US government link provided, rather than making uninformed comment.

[metisdead]

A troll post and a reply has been removed. 

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, simple1 said:

Preferable for you to read the US government link provided, rather than making uninformed comment.

Oh I've read it and the underlying statutes and I stand by my comment.

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, simple1 said:

I speculate whether the trump administration calls for more border control funding includes additional medical orientated line items and resources. I would assume front line Border Control staff already have basic medical training. Would not be overly challenging to put in place video links for diagnostic / advice purposes to stabilise and so on, as medical services do in Australia for remote locations.

If the federal funding has a hard time simply providing water, then "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate". I was an unplanned guest at the HPD lockup after a badly planned weekend went awry and despite 'innocent until proven guilty', being a potential felon, and being treated like a criminal, water was available. Even to the Vietnamese gangbanger shooter guy with the paper sacks on his hands to preserve gunshot residue that I shared a holding cell with. You can rail all you want about the quite reasonable notion that the child's father shoulders the bulk of responsibility and made her an 'illegal' but basic humanity shouldn't be neglected.

[simple1]

6 hours ago, NanLaew said:

If the federal funding has a hard time simply providing water, then "Lasciate ogne speranza, voi ch'intrate". I was an unplanned guest at the HPD lockup after a badly planned weekend went awry and despite 'innocent until proven guilty', being a potential felon, and being treated like a criminal, water was available. Even to the Vietnamese gangbanger shooter guy with the paper sacks on his hands to preserve gunshot residue that I shared a holding cell with. You can rail all you want about the quite reasonable notion that the child's father shoulders the bulk of responsibility and made her an 'illegal' but basic humanity shouldn't be neglected.

An article I read states as soon as a person is in custody, US government is legally fully responsibility for their health and safety. IMO there is no argument to counter the assertion.

[mogandave]

An article I read states as soon as a person is in custody, US government is legally fully responsibility for their health and safety. IMO there is no argument to counter the assertion.

Well if it was in an article it must be a fact.