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Girl dies after being detained by U.S. Border Patrol: Washington Post


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13 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

Plenty of room in the boat, more people to help row it in a forward direction. Why the fear?

Because there are laws and procedures. Because there are thousands of legal immigrants who jump through the hoops to stay here.

 

My ex Japanese wife, who spent days making sure her paperwork was correct, who paid (or I did) probably $2000 in fees to get her green card here, legally used to say "Why Mexican people can just come and stay and not follow rules? Rules are important! Discrimination to me! Because maybe I am Asian?"

 

How do you answer that?

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6 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

The correct term is disqualifying. And I never claimed that it was.

 

That is totally off topic to the subject at hand. Why does every topic have to degenerate into bashing President Trump? What does he or any of the policies of DHS have to do with the death of this little girl?

 

Do you have a response to the statistic that 80% of asylum claims are rejected?

The law permits those who enter, even illegally, to apply for asylum.   They are not disqualified.   Trump would like to change the law, but so far it is still in effect.   The only limitation is the amount of time after entry and before making the application.   The asylum application must be filed within a year of entry or within a year of your visa expiring if you entered legally.  

 

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Just now, Scott said:

The law permits those who enter, even illegally, to apply for asylum.   They are not disqualified.   Trump would like to change the law, but so far it is still in effect.   The only limitation is the amount of time after entry and before making the application.   The asylum application must be filed within a year of entry or within a year of your visa expiring if you entered legally.  

 

That is correct and I never thought that was an issue here. My apologies for being less than clear.

 

My post of them not being entitled to asylum was based on the statistics which I have partially cited, not the Port of Entry issue, in which I believe is an open and interesting legal question because of the interplay between the Asylum provisions and 8 USC 1182.  I believe, as I did in the Travel Ban case, that the Court will rule in the Administrations favour. However, at this point, folks who enter unlawfully are still entitled to claim asylum until the Courts decide that issue.

 

While I did not know it at the time, the fact that the guy purportedly left other members of his family behind would militate against his burden of demonstrating facts to support his claim. My original point was based on the facts that these Central Americans do not have a great staistical record in overcoming their burden to prove they are entitled to asylum. 

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18 minutes ago, Scott said:

The law permits those who enter, even illegally, to apply for asylum.   They are not disqualified.   Trump would like to change the law, but so far it is still in effect.   The only limitation is the amount of time after entry and before making the application.   The asylum application must be filed within a year of entry or within a year of your visa expiring if you entered legally.  

 

 

The law doesn't dictate that things will go well for you if you take this course. This is why the outrage is not understood by a great deal of people.

 

No other country in the world is offering asylum when Jus soli is law.

 

If the wall is crazy then for reforms ammend the constitution to reflect that Jus Soli no longer reflects the reality of allowing migrant workers access to work.

 

If the Democrats agree to a repeal to jus soli in exchange for DACA and no wall it would make a great start. In this day and age under the dems there would have been no agents left on the border to help shelter those immigrants.

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20 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

The correct term is disqualifying. And I never claimed that it was.

 

That is totally off topic to the subject at hand. Why does every topic have to degenerate into bashing President Trump? What does he or any of the policies of DHS have to do with the death of this little girl?

 

Do you have a response to the statistic that 80% of asylum claims are rejected?

The discussion is centered around the implications of trump admin policy and ramifications.

 

if it is correct 80% of Southern Border asylum claims are denied one hopes the rejection rate is based upon the Rule of Law and not a highly politicised judicial process which trump is aiming to achieve. e.g.

 

  • Although many Central American families are fleeing similar situations, there’s a vast difference in how their cases are decided depending on the judge and the location of the court, according to an analysis of asylum decisions made by U.S. immigration judges. Whereas judges in New York grant asylum in more than 75 percent of the cases, in Atlanta almost 90 percent of asylum requests are denied. These disparities suggest that whether or not asylum is granted has less to do with the merits of a person’s case, and more to do with individual judge and where the case is heard.  

https://www.wola.org/analysis/fact-sheet-united-states-immigration-central-american-asylum-seekers/

 

Currently there is a backlog of around 780,000 asylum claims in the USA, at the same time the trump administration has reduced vetted asylum seekers entry to the US to 45,000 p.a.; this fact alone demonstrates the truth concerning trump administration hysteria.

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6 minutes ago, simple1 said:

The discussion is centered around the implications of trump admin policy and ramifications.

I disagree. No one forced these folks to cross the border where they crossed. They could have gone to the nearest port of entry and waited their turn.

 

8 minutes ago, simple1 said:

if it is correct 80% of Southern Border asylum claims are denied one hopes the rejection rate is based upon the Rule of Law and not a highly politicised judicial process which trump is aiming to achieve. e.g.

 

  • Although many Central American families are fleeing similar situations, there’s a vast difference in how their cases are decided depending on the judge and the location of the court, according to an analysis of asylum decisions made by U.S. immigration judges. Whereas judges in New York grant asylum in more than 75 percent of the cases, in Atlanta almost 90 percent of asylum requests are denied. These disparities suggest that whether or not asylum is granted has less to do with the merits of a person’s case, and more to do with individual judge and where the case is heard.  

https://www.wola.org/analysis/fact-sheet-united-states-immigration-central-american-asylum-seekers/

 

Currently there is a backlog of around 780,000 asylum claims in the USA, at the same time the trump administration has reduced vetted asylum seekers entry to the US to 45,000 p.a.; this fact alone demonstrates the truth concerning trump administration hysteria.

Quoting an agenda organziation source does not support your argument, especially where they quote statistics to prove causation. Look at the difference between NYC and Atlanta. Does that quoted statistic take into account the differences between the two ports of entry in those areas. Perhaps it reflects that validity of the underlying claims by the asylum seekers? Could it be that NYC handles more "true" refugees, ie: folks from the Middle East, Africa, Russia, which is why they grant more claims there?

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3 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

DHS evidently denying coverage for pre-existing conditions?

 

 "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

 

 

* Brown people not eligible

 

 

"The New Colossus" is a sonnet that American poet Emma Lazarus (1849–1887) wrote in 1883 to raise money for the construction of a pedestal for the Statue of Liberty.[2] In 1903, the poem was cast onto a bronze plaque and mounted inside the pedestal's lower level.

 Was never meant to be a free pass into the United States.

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3 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

The correct term is disqualifying. And I never claimed that it was.

 

That is totally off topic to the subject at hand. Why does every topic have to degenerate into bashing President Trump? What does he or any of the policies of DHS have to do with the death of this little girl?

 

Do you have a response to the statistic that 80% of asylum claims are rejected?

No, the term is not disqualifying, see earlier post from Scott.

 

Regarding thecause of this and whether DHS policies have anything to do with this, that is why it is being investigated. For sure the apparent policy: 'if somebody dies, try to keep it secret' should be investigated.

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42 minutes ago, Longcut said:

Was never meant to be a free pass into the United States.

Correct. No one ever said it was.

 

It is an "ideal" that we might strive for.

 

A lot like biblical verses...

 

For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me

 

 

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34 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, the term is not disqualifying, see earlier post from Scott.

 

Regarding thecause of this and whether DHS policies have anything to do with this, that is why it is being investigated. For sure the apparent policy: 'if somebody dies, try to keep it secret' should be investigated.

Not a very good secret is it.

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43 minutes ago, i claudius said:

If they had been at home 2000 miles away with his wife and 3 other children she would not have been in danger,father and mothers fault,no one else

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

If all immigrants had respected the natives in America, there would not been any USA! Think about that! What have changed since the first immigrants crossed the sea with dreams of new and better life? People in rural and poor countries without human rights, have not stopped dreaming!

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This probably isn't the first child to die in the U.S. under DHS/CPB/ICE's reign. As more and more deaths are made public there will be some pushback, maybe even by evangelicals (just kidding). Then there will be the stories about the really creepy folks preying on these children. What could go wrong?

 

We're holding ~ 15,000 children in secured facilities right now. Scrawling numbers on their forearms is particularly gruesome.

 

New chant for the trump rally: "Lock Them Up, Lock Them Up"?

 

 

Tent City Operator’s Request for Policy Shift Could Reduce the Mass Detention of Migrant Children

 

The private operator hired by the federal government to run a tent facility housing 2,700 migrant children in El Paso County is considering not renewing its contract with the government unless the Trump administration agrees to change its policy and make it easier to place children with relatives, Representative Beto O’Rourke said Saturday. He was part of a five-member Democratic Congressional delegation that toured the facility in Tornillo that has become the symbol of what may be the largest U.S. mass detention of children not charged with crimes since the World War II internment of Japanese-Americans.

 

https://www.texasmonthly.com/news/private-operator-texas-tent-city-migrant-kids-may-not-renew-unless-new-policy-adopted/

 

 

 

Shelters holding nearly 15,000 migrant children near capacity

 

Government shelters holding immigrant children are about 92% full, according to a Department of Health and Human Services official, a sign that the backlog of those in detention has not abated.

 

The number of migrant children in shelters fluctuates daily and thousands have been caught in a backlog that has some confined for many months.


As of Thursday, the number of unaccompanied children in 100 shelters across 17 states was about 14,700, agency spokeswoman Evelyn Stauffer told CNN.

 

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/12/13/politics/migrant-children-us-custody/index.html

 

 

Tornillo-1250x0-c-default.jpg

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2 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A  lot of talk about the legal process.

 

 

So let's see what the 'legal process' is for taking a child into custody and what responsibilities come with doing so.

 

 

And still who put that child in that position to be taken into custody?

Who asked to be taken into custody?

What was her condition at THAT point?

 

 

All you bleeding hearts feel generous with a keyboard

Why not send cash? Lots of cash

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27 minutes ago, meechai said:

And still who put that child in that position to be taken into custody?

Who asked to be taken into custody?

What was her condition at THAT point?

 

 

All you bleeding hearts feel generous with a keyboard

Why not send cash? Lots of cash

I'll challenge you to point out my 'bleeding heart' comment. 

 

Support for the idea of an inquiry that examines the issue is not 'bleeding heart'.

 

Your palpable rage over this child's death being discussed, let alone examined, is itself worthy of some (self) analysis.

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Hummin said:

 

There will come a day, when you might have to flee as well. Where will you go? 

Well Pilgrim, if Yellowstone blows or an EMP hits and Im in CONUS Ill probably starve and die.

 

If Yellowstone blows or an EMP hits and Im in Alaska, Ill probably starve and die. Or freeze.

 

If some natural disaster or man made disaster makes it necessary to flee the US, there probably aint no place left to go. 

 

With all due respect, that is a silly point.

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On 12/14/2018 at 11:30 AM, Cryingdick said:

 

Maybe we should wait and see exactly what happened? If they brought the girl in with a 105 fever there was very little that could be done. The only part about zero tolerance I see in the article is that it was mostly reversed. 

 

There isn't enough information in the article to start casting blame on one side or the other. 

 

 

 

Very little, except perhaps call an ambulance instead of putting her on a bus for hours.

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10 minutes ago, Nyezhov said:

Well Pilgrim, if Yellowstone blows or an EMP hits and Im in CONUS Ill probably starve and die.

 

If Yellowstone blows or an EMP hits and Im in Alaska, Ill probably starve and die. Or freeze.

 

If some natural disaster or man made disaster makes it necessary to flee the US, there probably aint no place left to go. 

 

With all due respect, that is a silly point.

 

With all due respect, your assumption is ridiculous, the US will collapse one day just like all empires before them, and that will not result in there being nowhere left to go, thats just American centric nonsense, another great empire will simply have taken there place, but will they take the Americans in, that is the question.

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Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

Very little, except perhaps call an ambulance instead of putting her on a bus for hours.

How long do you think it takes an ambulance to get there?

 

You truly have no idea dude. I watched a guy die waiting for help on the Parks Highway in Alaska with a Doctor and a nurse (who were stuck in traffic caused by the accident) trying to save him. It can take as long as an hour plus to get a chopper to people. And hours to get an ambulance!

 

Thats the risk you take when you want to live and visit in Alaska and you get into an accident 70 miles plus from the nearest hospital.

 

Thats the risk this Dad took when he decided to drag his baby across the desert while breaking the law. If an American citizen dragged a kid through the desert and the kid died, he would probably get charged.

 

Its tragic that this girl died but making political fodder and second guessing is disgusting. Wonder how many Americans die out there in accidents because you cant get help to them in time? 

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