Does the addition of Thailand to the IDD program mean that ALL banks in Thailand can receive Social Security direct deposits??

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There are a lot of relative "sh**hole" countries on that SS direct deposit list, which in that version still excludes Thailand. Not to mention various others that aren't on very good terms with the U.S. these days.

 

I'm not asserting the following places are "sh**holes," but I'm sure it would be a fascinating story to understand how Thailand came to be left off the Social Security list for so many years while other neighboring places like Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam are on it.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2018 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Below quote is how the Defense Finance and Accounting Service (DFAS), which makes military retirement benefit payments, briefly describe how countries are chosen for IDD.   Each US govt benefit payment agency (i.e., SSA, DFAS, VA, OPM, etc.) makes it's own evaluation and decision as to which countries get on its IDD list. 

 

 https://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/manage/idd.html

Quote

Nations chosen for IDD eligibility have met the requirements of the Federal Reserve Bank. Simply put, the banks and other financial institutions in those countries provide secure and trustworthy services and have systems compatible with transferring funds from the U. S. to your account.

 

Like the DFAS IDD list does "not" include Thailand and only has about half as many countries on it's IDD list as the SSA IDD list. I asked DFAS about 4 months ago if Thailand was being considered and they said "No, not at this time." 

 

I asked the US Embassy Bangkok about a month ago if they were working with DFAS to get Thailand added to the DFAS IDD list like the embassy supposedly worked with SSA to get Thailand added to the SSA IDD list....but I never got an answer....just crickets. 

 

But it also requires countries/banks in those countries signing an agreement to support IDD.  So, in some cases a benefit paying agency may have no problem adding a country to it's IDD list, but no banks in the country want to participate. 
 

Another factor is how many beneficiaries are in a country for that pension paying agency.  Lots of military retirees living in Thailand, but as mentioned Thailand is not on the DFAS IDD list.  Plus the the SSA does have at least one (hopefully more) participating Thai bank, so I wonder why DFAS can't do the same. 

 

Maybe the SSA adding Thailand to it's IDD list will push DFAS into doing the same...time will tell....but come Apr 19 for those military retirees having their military pension sent to Bangkok Bank are going to be saying, "where's my payment...it didn't show up" because to the best of my knowledge DFAS is not using IAT format for any payments.  But maybe someone has asked Bangkok Bank to check their specific benefit payment to determine if it arriving in IAT format...or the PPD format which will be rejected effective Apr 19.

 

Yeap, each US govt benefit payment agency has it's own IDD policy and list of approved countries.
 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, steven2018 said:

That is really cool info about international direct deposit. Now, if Medicare would allow international benefits to approved hospitals internationally, they could save money by allowing services at a possible lower cost than a service done in the U.S.

About Medicare, they already save much much more money not covering expats at all. So don't hold your breath on that one. 

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, Pib said:

When IDD does become available in the first quarter of 2019, keep in mind you will need to have your Thailand address on-file with the SSA.   I expect some have their SS payment going to Bangkok Bank via ACH, however, have kept their U.S. address on-file with the SSA.   A US address on-file when using ACH for  your payment is no problem; however, for IDD you must have your foreign address on file with SSA.  This also means you'll get an annual/biennual (depends on foreign country.....for Thailand its annual) "are you still alive letter."   See below SSA instruction regarding IDD for Thailand....MBR means Master Benefit Record.

 

 

Full instructions at SSA weblink....partial snapshot also below.

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402419

Wow.

I'm confused and surprised about this. 

Does that mean when this goes into effect we are going to need to open U.S. dollar based accounts at a participating Thai bank to participate?

I'm really surprised about that detail.

Please clarify if you can.

Of course I assume we don't know yet whether these will be restricted accounts (in other words, no ATM cards).

[Pib]

10 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Wow.

I'm confused and surprised about this. 

Does that mean when this goes into effect we are going to need to open U.S. dollar based accounts at a participating Thai bank to participate?

I'm really surprised about that detail.

Please clarify if you can.

Of course I assume we don't know yet whether these will be restricted accounts (in other words, no ATM cards).

 

All I can say is per Para D of the SSA Thailand instruction it says the payment must go to a "USD account"....or what Thai banks call a Foreign Currency Deposit (FCD) account which is for incoming foreign currency...."not converted to baht" upon receipt...goes into the FCD account as the foreign currency.   And that is stressed in the step-by-step entry instructions posted above.  Additionally, Thai FCD accounts have different rules/fee schedule that a regular Thai baht account.  One rule is apparently no ATM card are associated with FCD accounts, must deposit/withdraw at "only" the branch that has your FCD account (but you can transfer from the FCD to your Thai baht account via internet), a minimum monthly balance apply otherwise a monthly maintenance fee applies, some healthy minimum opening balances apply, etc.  A Thai FCD is no panacea.

 

https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202402419

Quote

 

D. Overview of IDD for Thailand

IDD payments sent to Thailand must be in U.S. Dollars (USD) accounts at local FIs. The beneficiary must provide complete information to DIO or the Federal Benefits Unit (FBU) for input. DIO faxes incomplete forms to the FBU that serves Thailand. The FBU contacts the beneficiary or FI for the additional information.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by Pib

[steven2018]

I noticed that Paragraph D in the Vietnam coding stated:

 

 

Overview Of IDD For Vietnam

 

IDD payments sent to Vietnam must be in Vietnam Dong (VND) accounts at local FIs. The beneficiary must provide complete information to DIO or the Federal Benefits Unit (FBU) for input. DIO faxes incomplete forms to the FBU that serves Vietnam. The FBU contacts the beneficiary or FI for the additional information.

 

###

 

It seems that the Fed Reserve can distribute the SS benefit country specific.

 

 

 

 

[KhunFred]

On 12/15/2018 at 7:51 PM, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

There are a lot of relative "sh**hole" countries on that SS direct deposit list, which in that version still excludes Thailand. Not to mention various others that aren't on very good terms with the U.S. these days.

 

I'm not asserting the following places are "sh**holes," but I'm sure it would be a fascinating story to understand how Thailand came to be left off the Social Security list for so many years while other neighboring places like Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam are on it.

 

 

My understanding was that there was so much fraud from expats involved with bargirls that it was addressed with the current rules. Not convenient but it has kept many from being cleaned out by the poorly chosen "companions".

[marcusarelus]

12 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

My understanding was that there was so much fraud from expats involved with bargirls that it was addressed with the current rules. Not convenient but it has kept many from being cleaned out by the poorly chosen "companions".

How did you get that understanding?  Link your source please.  I don't believe you. 

[KhunFred]

No source to link to. Just the comments of other expats. You KNOW that many people here are involved with untrustworthy people such as bargirls. It's just a matter of looking at the evidence and making a judgement call. I did not intend to offend you and there is no reason to attack me by saying that you "don't believe me".

It is patently obvious that I have to show up at Bangkok Bank in person to transfer my Direct Deposit funds into a separate ATM account for ONE reason: that reason is the prevalence of fraud here. It is irritating but it has probably saved many bank accounts from being cleaned out. Have a cup of coffee and stop trying to raise the already high hostility level on TVF. ????

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

It is patently obvious that I have to show up at Bangkok Bank in person to transfer my Direct Deposit funds into a separate ATM account for ONE reason: that reason is the prevalence of fraud here.

That is not the reasons for having to withdraw or transfer the funds in a direct deposit account. It is in case you were to die without the SSA being informed so that the payment are stopped and your spouse or others being able to withdraw the funds from the account.

[KhunFred]

23 hours ago, Pib said:

some healthy minimum opening balances apply

Could you quote what that minimum opening balance would be? If it's going to be Citibank level, then I am as good as gone. The news seems to get worse and worse.

[Pib]

7 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Could you quote what that minimum opening balance would be? If it's going to be Citibank level, then I am as good as gone. The news seems to get worse and worse.

 

This post has talks minimum balances for Bangkok Bank and K-bank...with weblinks to their FCD products.

 

 

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Could you quote what that minimum opening balance would be? If it's going to be Citibank level, then I am as good as gone. The news seems to get worse and worse.

Only $1000 to open one at Bangkok Bank and that only has to be transferred in within 30 days after the account is opened.

[KhunFred]

34 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Only $1000 to open one at Bangkok Bank and that only has to be transferred in within 30 days after the account is opened.

Thanks, that's expensive but could be done even on my low income. I was preparing to use a visa service, but it appears that door is being closed. I cannot understand the lack of understanding at Immigration about the consequences of their policies. The very richest people are not going to come here to live because they can live anywhere. Expecting lump sum deposits of nearly a million baht is absolutely insane. It does not appear that the monthly income method is going to be allowed. What on earth are they thinking???

Edited December 17, 2018 by KhunFred

[onera1961]

On 12/15/2018 at 12:32 AM, jacko45k said:

Is that the complete picture? Surely there are places as cheap or even cheaper to live than Thailand? 

A British person could live more cheaply in the UK on benefits!

USA is also cheap to live. Warm places like Arizona and Nevada are cheap. Portugal is cheap. But many people have burnt the bridge, sold their home country asset and moved here lock stock and barrel. It may be a problem for them.  

Edited December 17, 2018 by onera1961

[KhunFred]

Just now, onera1961 said:

USA is also cheap to live. Warm places like Arizona and Nevada are cheap. Portugal is cheap.  

USA is most assuredly NOT cheap to live, even in low-cost states such as the one I am from. (Alabama) You could not rent a decent apartment in Birmingham, Alabama for 300 USD per month. Owning a car is an absolute necessity, not so here in Thailand. Public transportation is a great cost saver.

[Pib]

I would recommend that for those who are not currently receiving their SS payment in ACH "IAT" format that they do as the 1 Oct 18 Bangkok Bank memorandum (below) and their website recommends which is to contract the SSA to get you payment changed to IAT format.  Recommend you attach the Bangkok Bank letter and include a cover letter that stresses "change my payment to IAT format, change to IAT format." 

 

But only do this if you have confirmed with Bangkok Bank your specific payment is not being received in IAT format.  No need to do it if you have confirmed your specific payment is being received in IAT format. 

 

And if the Bangkok Bank rep you talk to starts off by saying "almost all, most" SSA payments are received in IAT format, well, say that's all good & fine but what about "my specific SSA payment?"  Have them look it up because a lot of SSA payments are not being sent in IAT format....like a family member of mine....it's being sent in PPD format which will be rejected by Bangkok Bank starting Apr 19.

 

Contact the POC(s) on the Bangkok Bank letter if your local Bangkok Bank branch seem clueless on the issue.   The primary POC on the Bangkok Bank letter works on the second floor of the HQ Bangkok Bank building on Silom Rd in Bangkok....the first floor of that building is probably what is consider the main, largest Bangkok Bank branch in Thailand.

 

Below are the SSA addresses to write to....and IMO I would "not" write to Manila as I've they seem somewhat clueless to not-to-interested on the subject and would still probably have to forward your request to the Baltimore Office of Int'l Ops.  Manila is probably banking on the IDD to cure the issue...which it will.  But the cure appears it will come with side effects. 

 

Some side effects that are similar and also new to the current ACH Direct Deposit method.  Guess it's kinda like choosing between two different medications for the same ailment....each medication works but comes with some some different "and" some similar side effects.   Personally between the two I would prefer the current ACH account method since a person can withdraw/deposit at "any" Bangkok Bank branch, no minimum monthly balance required, fewer/simpler fee structure, and it's covered by the Thailand deposit protection program.

 

Both a FCD account and current ACH Direct Deposit account do not come with an ATM card.  With a FCD account you can only physically withdraw/deposit at the specific branch that has you account but with a ACH Direct Deposit account you can physically withdraw/deposit from "any" Bangkok Bank branch. A FCD has a high opening deposit requirement ($1000 or more depending on bank)...Bangkok Bank gives you 30 days to deposit that $1000 amount....don't know about other banks.  An ACH Direct Deposit account only has a Bt500 opening deposit requirement and does not have a minimum monthly balance requirement to avoid a fee.  A FCD has a minimum monthly balance ($250 for Bangkok Bank) otherwise a monthly maintenance fee is applied ($10 for a Bangkok Bank FCD).  And there are other fees associated with a FCD account depending on how you withdraw, but if you just do a transfer from the FCD to your Thai baht account there is no fee.  And a BIGGIE a FCD is "not" covered by the Thailand Deposit Protection Agency program...Thai baht accounts such as the current ACH Direct Deposit savings account are covered.  So if going with a FCD you money is uninsured...maybe best to use it as a flow-thru account....received the money to the FCD and then immediately transfer it to your regular Thai bank account which can have an ATM card, basically no restrictions.  Like most things, pros and cons, positive and negative exist with various types of bank accounts in Thailand (or any country).

 

Keep in mind that Manila is like a local SS office in your home town....while they can process applications and a variety of changes the applications/changes still need to be finalized/approved at the Baltimore office.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2018 by Pib

[ubonjoe]

17 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

It does not appear that the monthly income method is going to be allowed.

I don't think that is going to happen. There is a very good chance immigration will come out with a solution such as the income going into a Thai bank that has been mentioned.

I think most of the naysayers are people already using the money in the bank option.

[steven2018]

35 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

It does not appear that the monthly income method is going to be allowed. What on earth are they thinking???

From my view, it would be easy for Thai Immigration to verify using the income method since the income would be verified by being in a FCD account.  

 

 

And as KhunFred said, living in the U.S. ain't cheap. 

 

Unless you want to slum it.

 

Exit the Urban areas, now one is in a Rural environment where a mode of transport is needed. Car, insurance, maintenance. $$$

[carken]

On 12/15/2018 at 2:16 PM, KhunFred said:

That is certainly an interesting comment. I don't know about your particular case, but ALL of the British people I know who are retired here in Thailand tell quite a different story. I will CERTAINLY agree that the superior British healthcare system is a valid reason to live there. Same deal with Australia and Canada. In order to access Medicare, I would have to fly back to the USA. No problems collecting Social Security here, but healthcare is another kettle of fish.

There R many many articles that say the so called "superior British healthcare system" AND the Canadian National HealthCare System R both POS and service/care is among the worst in the world ... I of course do not know this from personal experience but simply think all the bad reports can't B lies or misinformation ... In USA I have access to excellent VA healthcare 100% free but must fly back to USA for treatment. 2 years ago had Pacemaker put in, double cataract eye surgery and both were excellent ... Might add that within 12 hours of finding out I needed Pacemaker it was installed ... no lines, no ques, no months on waiting list just fast immediate excellent service ...

 

As a footnote 8 years ago we spent the seasoned 1,000,000 Baht I had in bank on new house for myself, my Thai wife of 12 years, our 2 sons  ... I'm good with Immigration with my OA non-immigration visa for another 15 months (1year 3 months)

 

Now all we have is SocSec of 41K Baht we take out of USA bank (via ATM) and deposit into Thai bank every month ... Since US Embassy and Thai Immigration has thrown out income affidavit all I have for proof of monthly income is my Thai bank statement ... could be in trouble in 15 months ... also need to convert "non-ommigation OA visa" into "marraige O visa" so that the monthly income of 41K baht keeps me here ... hope Thai Immigration comes out with some clear rules/guide lines next year

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, carken said:

As a footnote 8 years ago we spent the seasoned 1,000,000 Baht I had in bank on new house for myself, my Thai wife of 12 years, our 2 sons  ... I'm good with Immigration with my OA non-immigration visa for another 15 months (1year 3 months)

 

I think you have a multiple entry non-o visa not a OA visa since your mentioned 15 months total from it. A OA visa allows one year entries and can allow almost 2 years of total stay.

[Pib]

Last last week I asked the VA if they have "International Direct Deposit (IDD)" for Thailand.  Just got their response shown below. 

 

Before asking I already knew the VA had a generic IDD enrollment form (attached below and referenced in their response), but there was no information as to whether Thailand was a country supported for VA IDD payments as each US govt agency has its own list of countries approved for IDD like how the SSA IDD list of countries is twice as large as the DFAS IDD list of countries.  And did a person's Thai bank account need to be with any specific Thai bank(s)....need to be a certain type of account like maybe a FCD account, etc.

 

And just to stress we are talking payment via IDD; not payment via ACH.

 

 

Quote

 

Yes Thailand is set up through the VA, however currently Thailand for some reason is not accepting International payments at this time. Our Treasury department is researching and trying to find out more information on why they have stopped accepting the deposits.

 

I have attached a form for future references for when it is up and ready. You may want to try back in about a month to see if we are yet accepting them again for Thailand. 

 

 

VA IDD Enrollment Form

24-0296A.pdf

 

 

[KhunFred]

On 12/17/2018 at 10:38 AM, Pib said:

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2018 by KhunFred
clarity

[KhunFred]

1 minute ago, KhunFred said:

 

 

2 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

if the Bangkok Bank rep you talk to starts off by saying "almost all, most" SSA payments are received in IAT format, well, say that's all good & fine but what about "my specific SSA payment?"  Have them look it up because a lot of SSA payments are not being sent in IAT format....like a family member of mine....it's being sent in PPD format which will be rejected by Bangkok Bank starting Apr 19.

Can anyone provide more information on the PPD format and why SOME but not ALL are being sent this way? I dread having to navigate the Thai language maze of Bangkok Bank personnel. I HOPE that the PPD is an OLD format and the newer one is IAT.  I have been receiving SSA payments only since 2015.

[ubonjoe]

25 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

 

Can anyone provide more information on the PPD format and why SOME but not ALL are being sent this way? I dread having to navigate the Thai language maze of Bangkok Bank personnel. I HOPE that the PPD is an OLD format and the newer one is IAT.  I have been receiving SSA payments only since 2015.

It is assumed that the ones not being sent in IAT format is because a US address is the only address that the SSA has for the person receiving the direct deposit.

A address in Thailand is required for the IAT format. 

 

[Pib]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

It is assumed that the ones not being sent in IAT format is because a US address is the only address that the SSA has for the person receiving the direct deposit.

A address in Thailand is required for the IAT format. 

 

Wrong assumption.  My Thai family member has a Thailand address on file and the members SS payment is arriving in PPD format.  

 

However, I do think part of the issue is address related with the rest associated with how the SSA technician finalized entry/update of the person's direct deposit account.

[Pib]

6 hours ago, KhunFred said:

 

Can anyone provide more information on the PPD format and why SOME but not ALL are being sent this way? I dread having to navigate the Thai language maze of Bangkok Bank personnel. I HOPE that the PPD is an OLD format and the newer one is IAT.  I have been receiving SSA payments only since 2015.

The IAT format is not new....been around since approx 2009.   

 

Whether your US govt payment got setup for PPD or IAT payment appears to be "primarily" address driven but not totally.  I say not totally because I have a family who began SS benefits several months ago, has a Thailand address on file with SSA,  has the payment go to Bangkok Bank, but the SSA is making the payment in PPD format.   Have confirmed this with Bangkok Bank several times by actually seeing the payment details...even confirmed face-to-face with the POC on the HQ Bangkok Bank POC in their 1 Oct 18.

 

It also appears that if you had a US address on file with the SSA and have been using a Bangkok Bank account for years, just contacting the SSA to update "your" address to a Thailand address has no effect in changing a PPD format to a IAT.  Two separate issues.   It's just like if you contacted the SSA to change bank accounts to a completely different bank that has no affect of the address you have on file with the SSA.

 

Just contact the Bangkok Bank POC/phone number on the HQ Bangkok Bank letter to confirm whether your payment is arriving in IAT format or not.   The Bangkok Bank reps at that number speak good English as those folks are in the Foreign Exchange Dept on the 2nd floor of the HQ Bangkok Bank building and deal with tons of farangs daily.   

 

Just be sure to stress you want them to lookup your specific payment to confirm.  DO NOT accept any answer such as most/all SSA payments are being rec'd in IAT format.   Have then look up your specific payment.  You will need to give them your account number, name, and approx amount of last payment.

 

Maybe your payment is arriving in IAT format.  If by chance you are signed up for the free SMS Remittance which provides info on incoming foreign transfers/payments such as US govt payments a strong indicator of whether your SSA payment is arriving in PPD or IAT format is how the SMS starts off with "SSA Treas 310" then it probably PPD format.

[KhunFred]

On 12/20/2018 at 2:28 PM, Pib said:

 

 

Just contact the Bangkok Bank POC/phone number on the HQ Bangkok Bank letter to confirm whether your payment is arriving in IAT format or not.   The Bangkok Bank reps at that number speak good English as those folks are in the Foreign Exchange Dept on the 2nd floor of the HQ Bangkok Bank building and deal with tons of farangs daily.   

 

 

Please define the abbreviation "POC".   I don't see it anywhere on the letter I got from Bangkok Bank. I am calling the HQ in Bangkok, right?, or do I need to call HQ at the New York bank? I am going to attempt to do it myself, although I know a Thai man who speaks perfect English and could do it for me. I simply don't see the abbreviation "POC" anywhere on the letter. Thank you for any help you can give.

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Please define the abbreviation "POC". 

Point Of Contact I assume.

[Pib]

35 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Please define the abbreviation "POC".   I don't see it anywhere on the letter I got from Bangkok Bank. I am calling the HQ in Bangkok, right?, or do I need to call HQ at the New York bank? I am going to attempt to do it myself, although I know a Thai man who speaks perfect English and could do it for me. I simply don't see the abbreviation "POC" anywhere on the letter. Thank you for any help you can give.

POC = Point of Contact

 

From the 1 Oct letter included in earlier post.   Just call yourself.  You speak English...the POCs on the letter speak English.