Thai Embassy in Vientiane issues warning to visa runners

[garyk]

5 hours ago, vinegarbase said:

I tried to tell people. Every time there is a crackdown on illegal immigration it always comes hand in hand with making legal immigration more difficult and screwing over those just trying to follow the rules. 

 

Thailand is not going back to the Thailand of 5-10 years ago. They are paying tribute to the new emperors in China. "Farang go home" is the new Thai slogan. Good news is that you can free yourselves of the Thailand chains. Go get your Panama permanent residency in about 2 months and enjoy your freedom. You can own land, guns, get permanent residency and enjoy your freedom they way you are supposed to. Forget all this Thai immigration madness.  These are the guys to go through and don't wait before it's too late to make your backup plan. https://www.joyful-feet.com

 

I agree 100%, Not sure about Panama, but many of the countries down south want us.

Unfortunately, after reading these threads, IMO most people here don't want to hear it. And will not leave.

Why? I don't understand it. 

I am out of here in the next month or so, and that is it for me. But, for the majority here, it will be a forced exit and with no backup plan, it will be very painful IMO.

Edited December 17, 2018 by garyk

[Huayrat]

5 hours ago, gamini said:

I often wonder how they live here. They must be very wealthy or have inherited money to be able to stay here for long periods without working. I think many of them perhaps have saved up a bit of money and try to stay here as long as possible to avoid doing an honest days work. Naturally Thailand is not very keen on these type of tourists.

How about motorcyle accident at the age of 21 and a wheelchair user on a 100k per month military pension.. Them kind of ppl you know the ones who don't cause a problem.. Stop picturing under 50 year olds as criminals

Edited December 17, 2018 by Huayrat

[Russell17au]

1 minute ago, garyk said:

I agree 100%, Not sure about Panama, but many of the countries down south want us.

Unfortunately, after reading these threads, IMO most people here don't want to hear it. And will not leave.

Why? I don't understand it. 

I am out of here in the next month or so, and that is it for me. But, for the majority here, it will be a forced exit and with no backup plan it will be very painful IMO.

Not everyone wants to go to a place like Panama and not everyone will be forced out as you say, it is only those that will not/cannot abide by the laws of Thailand that will leave.

[garyk]

19 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Not everyone wants to go to a place like Panama and not everyone will be forced out as you say, it is only those that will not/cannot abide by the laws of Thailand that will leave.

Very true, I cannot argue with that. It depends on what you want in retirement!

Do you want to be able to own a small place that is legally yours?

Do you want to be considered a citizen with no yearly extensions. So that if something goes wrong you will not be forced out?

Do you enjoy the double pricing that goes on here?

Panama is not the only country wants expats. Personally I have never been to Panama! But, have been to other countrys that want expats. 

As much as I love Thailand, this country does not want us IMO. I truly hope for the sake of the thousands that have made Thailand home it doesn't get any worse.

Edited December 17, 2018 by garyk

[LivinLOS]

39 minutes ago, Huayrat said:

So What's the right visa for someone under 50 who is retired and wealthy enough to stay in Thailand? I'd be interested to know..

Elite visa, Investor Visa.. 

 

If your wealthy enough for those they want you.. They set the level of wealth they desire, not you. 

Edited December 17, 2018 by LivinLOS

[JackThompson]

6 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I strongly considered Panama but always felt Thailand was a good place to retire. My Spanish is not good, so Thailand won out. Apparently, I lose. The government is morphing into "Farang Go Home" mode. Hard to believe that Thailand is courting a nation which has not traditionally had good relations with monarchies of any type.

I think "bought out" more than "courted."  Think "suitcases full of cash," and how easily the country could be destroyed with those, given how the bureaucracies function.

That's not just a knock on Thailand, though the Chinese govt did a similar buyout of govt-officials in the USA, with tragic results for the citizenry.  Similar is occurring here now, thanks to immigration's policies of "L-Visas" for low-paid workers, and removing longer-term tourists who can afford to stay and spend free money from afar, into the Thai economy.

[Russell17au]

55 minutes ago, garyk said:

Very true, I cannot argue with that. It depends on what you want in retirement!

Do you want to be able to own a small place that is legally yours?

Do you want to be considered a citizen with no yearly extensions. So that if something goes wrong you will not be forced out?

Do you enjoy the double pricing that goes on here?

Panama is not the only country wants expats. Personally I have never been to Panama! But, have been to other countrys that want expats. 

As much as I love Thailand, this country does not want us IMO. I truly hope for the sake of the thousands that have made Thailand home it doesn't get any worse.

Speak for yourself and do not make the assumption that I think the same as you. I believe that the only expats that Thailand do not want are those that do not meet the legal requirements to stay in the country. I am quite happy where I am with what I have and having the knowledge that I am legal here in Thailand and happy. You want Panama then go to Panama, no one is stopping you except yourself.

[Goethe]

7 hours ago, fruitman said:

They should tell how many tourist visa's one can get in a year...

 

And also make it easyier to get a real visa, myself i have to travel 3 hours single way to the embassy and a week later again 6 hours to get my passport back.

So it costs me 2 full working days.

"Working days"? Tourists are not supposed to be working! There is nothing wrong with the Thai policy that jobs are for Thai people, not foreigners. This is the policy in many, many other countries.

[JackThompson]

7 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

Sure

but these people are not tourists

6 hours ago, gamini said:

I don't think Thailand wants the type of tourists, they save a bit of money and try to live here as long as possible so they don't have to work. The amount they spend is negligible. The country is not going to miss these type of so-called tourists.

Well, they are not "just barely" afford to come here, like those "tourists" getting free VOA entry right now, as a promotion to make their visit possible.  Who wants people who can afford to spend money, when you can get oodles of "zero-baht tour" types, whom your citizens detest (manners, no tips, bargain on menu-prices after eating the food, etc), and that increase crowding and infrastructure stress for a minimal return per-each visitor?

 

Staying here most of the time on repeat Tourist Visas requires a significant cash-flow, even compared to those legally retired here (1900 Baht/yr).  And the only difference is over/under 50 years of age.

 

7 hours ago, darksidedog said:

The "right visa" would probably be the legal one, which properly fits your genuine reason for being here. An education visa WILL allow you to stay here, as long as you actually do attend classes,

Immigration aren't interested in your class-attendance, though, in some areas - just that an  "extra" 3K to 5K Baht per-extension is paid through the school.  No "extra money" in Tourist Visas, though.

 

7 hours ago, darksidedog said:

though while you term it a sidestep, living here on repeated tourist visas, is an even bigger one.

It is getting harder to get long term visas, for "no real reason" all over the world, so it should come as no surprise that Thailand would also do so.

They ran out of people who need jobs?  Or empty places for rent?  Or all the restaurants are full and no where to build another one?  Or Western visitors are competing with the Thais and foreigners on L-Visas (who are actually harming Thai wage-scales) for under-the-table illegal jobs? 

 

Perhaps I am missing something in the reasoning such a policy would apply to Thailand, for those applying from countries with higher wage-scales.  Maybe they are only denying those from lower-wage countries, but didn't want to put that on the sign?  At least there would be some "illegal worker" logic in that.

 

7 hours ago, darksidedog said:

A key point I thought I made, was at least the Embassy are giving out notice that they will be making it tougher. Their past reaction has been to just do it, leaving lots of people running around like chickens with their heads cut off.

I do not see any difference, given most people would be finding out as they show up to apply, and there are no specific guidelines one can use to adjust their travel to suit - for example, one with full candor:

"Please stay out 10-days before applying, so we know you aren't competing with the foreigners paying immigration big-bucks in agent-laundered bribes for L-Visas."
 

[SammyT]

4 hours ago, sanemax said:

I do think that some Schools will suffer when they have to hire non English speaking Thais to teach kids English 

If that's the case then they should do it legally through the work permit scheme like all the reputable schools do around the place? Then it won't be an issue?

[Loomis]

I wonder if this will actually effect the old ability to get 3-5 consecutive Tourist visas from Vientiane before getting the warning stamp. Maybe it’ll be 2 consecutive and then denied? 

[fruitman]

21 minutes ago, Goethe said:

"Working days"? Tourists are not supposed to be working! There is nothing wrong with the Thai policy that jobs are for Thai people, not foreigners. This is the policy in many, many other countries.

Tssssss...maybe i still live abroad as well and have to apply there for a visa plus have companies there???? But thanks for telling me!

[SammyT]

28 minutes ago, Goethe said:

"Working days"? Tourists are not supposed to be working! There is nothing wrong with the Thai policy that jobs are for Thai people, not foreigners. This is the policy in many, many other countries.

Agreed. I think the issue is that people on "tourist" visas want to turn around and come back in less than 24 hours after leaving. I'm sure you could get unlimited tourist visas as an actual tourist if you were doing a 2 week holiday 4 times a year and flying back to your regular home country in the time in between. The issue is the people who want to come here, live as cheaply as possible, work from home and then whinge when they get declined a tourist visa, despite the fact they're not actually a tourist, all while bragging about how much money they put into the economy. 

 

This rule will not affect genuine tourists in the slightest. Digital nomads and other workers looking to not pay tax here, on the other hand, may well be affected

[HueMungis]

I’m 23 years old.  I was fortunate enough to inherit some properties in an area of Chicago that has become upscale.  I do the visa run things.  I’m too young for retirement, not naive enough to get married at 23 to a girl I met at a bar and a huge language barrier.  I don’t work, unless you count looking at the stock market and arranging funds here and there periodically.  I can buy an elite visa, but I just don’t think it is worth the investment for a few reasons.  I don’t mind doing visa runs because it gives me an excuse to go do something and leave the country.  I don’t mind standing in line at the airport for 15-20min, it’s not worth $15k USD, I can stand.  Who knows if I’ll even want to still be here in 3 years.  I can become a teacher  for a Non B, but

A) I don’t want to stand in front of a room of 40+ elementary school kids screaming, pretending to teach, but really being an overpaid babysitter.

B) I have no desire to “teach”

 

I’m not spending all my time getting drunk and causing trouble and giving farang a bad image, I go out once or maybe twice a week.  

[Cereal]

I'd already used my two exemptions and had to buy the one time visa for 1000 baht at the Thai embassy here in Vientiane last month. I met an older Brit bloke who has been living in Thailand on tourist visas for 18 years. They are the people causing law abiding citizens all the visa hassles.

[DrJack54]

13 minutes ago, HueMungis said:

I’m 23 years old.  I was fortunate enough to inherit some properties in an area of Chicago that has become upscale.  I do the visa run things.  I’m too young for retirement, not naive enough to get married at 23 to a girl I met at a bar and a huge language barrier.  I don’t work, unless you count looking at the stock market and arranging funds here and there periodically.  I can buy an elite visa, but I just don’t think it is worth the investment for a few reasons.  I don’t mind doing visa runs because it gives me an excuse to go do something and leave the country.  I don’t mind standing in line at the airport for 15-20min, it’s not worth $15k USD, I can stand.  Who knows if I’ll even want to still be here in 3 years.  I can become a teacher  for a Non B, but

A) I don’t want to stand in front of a room of 40+ elementary school kids screaming, pretending to teach, but really being an overpaid babysitter.

B) I have no desire to “teach”

 

I’m not spending all my time getting drunk and causing trouble and giving farang a bad image, I go out once or maybe twice a week.  

Get over yourself. Yes by all means enjoy your gifted wealth. First of all learn about a work ethic. I have a lot of wealth. Two sons bit older than you. They will inherit a lot when I fall off perch. In mean time they work 9-5. Some people call you a <deleted>. Au term. BTW how have you contributed to this thread. Next will be another <deleted> saying they won lottery. Buy an elite visa cheap charlie.

Edited December 17, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[JackThompson]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

However, as the numbers of long term tourists grew the authorities had to keep the numbers in check, and they've been doing that since 2006.

Because?  What was the down-side to more self-funded long-term tourists?  More foreign-capital spending, jobs for Thais, etc?  I've never heard a good answer to this question from anyone.

 

40 minutes ago, SammyT said:

This rule will not affect genuine tourists in the slightest. Digital nomads and other workers looking to not pay tax here, on the other hand, may well be affected

It is unfortunate the authorities do not provide B-Visas in exchange for paying taxes here while obtaining an income-stream from overseas sources. 

As a result of this poor-policy, I always paid taxes in my home country instead (we have a dual-tax treaty with Thailand), due to no advantage to filing 2 places and complicating my tax-returns for no benefit.  Heck, I'd move the business here and try to hire Thais, if they didn't have crazy "millions of baht capital" rules, which are not needed for a non brick/mortar business.

[NanLaew]

57 minutes ago, Loomis said:

I wonder if this will actually effect the old ability to get 3-5 consecutive Tourist visas from Vientiane before getting the warning stamp. Maybe it’ll be 2 consecutive and then denied? 

One can only hope, eh?

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, SammyT said:

I wonder how many people here that are annoyed at Thailand for enforcing its own border control laws are the same ones who complain on Facebook about their own home countries letting anyone in (Seems about half of my older Western ex-pat Facebook friends do).  

 

There aren't many countries in the developed world that just allow people to stay long term without fitting the working/retirement/education visa role. Plenty of countries around the world bounce people who abuse the visa on arrival or tourist visa scheme. Especially those who work while on tourist visas. 

2 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

As a Canadian I applaud the Thai government.  They are attempting to do what the Canadian Government has done for a long time (at least 20 years)

They are stopping people that abuse the passport system.  It is no different than anyone trying to get into the country on back to back in Canada.  Most of them are refused.  Aus and NZ also are very much stopping it.  The only countries that have no borders security are the US, UK and EU.

Yes, because if they come from lower-wage countries, they drive down wages for locals, and take job-opportunities.  Then factor in the social-welfare spending - for the "unemployed-by-foreigner" locals, and what the foreigners can get.  People are not coming from Europe, AU, and USA to take Thai's jobs.

 

5 hours ago, SammyT said:

This is a bit of a non-event really. I'm sure Thailand won't miss those who work here long term on tourist visas, no matter how much they claim they stimulate the local economy. 

Ask those who are losing their jobs which support their families about that, before you decide this is the case.  I have.  They want immigration to stop bringing in floods of people who don't support good jobs, and stop blocking those who do support good jobs (and whom they prefer to be around, generally).

 

2 hours ago, kingstonkid said:

Try breaking immigration rules in Russia

Those entering Thailand with Valid Tourist Visas are breaking no laws or rules - unless they don't have 20K Baht in Cash to show upon entry (silly rule, given ATMs, but is on-the-books), or violate the terms of the visa (no working, don't overstay).

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, at15 said:

malaysia is a good option. 90 day free entry for a lot of western countries. i have stayed in nice apartments outside of kl, in the 10,000 baht a month rent range. But you get a much larger place than thailand with a western kitchen, laundry room, den, etc. 

Enjoy it for 90-days, but then find somewhere else for the next 90 or so, before returning. 

 

5 hours ago, sanemax said:

And you can just do a visa run to neighboring Thailand 

They used to be OK with 7-days out (in Phuket, for most), but not any more.  Given the nature of the govt in power, I can guess their aversion to Western influence.  With Thailand, it doesn't make sense - unless being done at the bidding of the Chinese.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

One can only hope, eh?

Just curious. Was is possible to get 5 setv from Vientiane before? Don't think so.

[Loomis]

Just now, DrJack54 said:

Just curious. Was is possible to get 5 setv from Vientiane before? Don't think so.

I had 4 with no warning stamps, so I guess I could have gotten a fifth if I had tried. They weren’t one after the other, and had breaks in between, so I’m not sure if that had anything to do with my luck.

[sanemax]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

One can only hope, eh?

Why do you hope that ?

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

Get over yourself. Yes by all means enjoy your gifted wealth. First of all learn about a work ethic. I have a lot if wealth. Two sons bit older than you. They will inherit a lot when I fall off perch. In mean time they work 9-5. Some people call you a <deleted>. Au term. BTW how have you contributed to this thread. Next will be another <deleted> saying they won lottery. Buy an elite visa cheap charlie.

One reason he still has money/investments, would be not blowing capital on raw-deals like the elite-visa.  A big wad of cash up-front, for "permission to spend money" in another country?  "One born every minute," must have been the inside-joke of those who invented that scheme.

 

In any case, the point of working is to save money so you can stop - unless you are a professional musician, painter, or something that is actually enjoyable to do "for a living."  The second best option is to own your own business.

This guy was fortunate enough that his parents set him up not to waste decades of his life doing mindless-chores for permission to eat and sleep indoors.  That life sucks, as most of us who have done it will admit.  I would not wish it on anyone, except maybe for a year, just to experience how dreadful and monotonous it is, so one can appreciate the beauty of not doing it afterwords. 

 

Life isn't fair, and I would be lying to say I am not envious of the guy - as I am of anyone who gets to Thailand when so young (even if they have to teach English to do it) - but kudos to his parents for giving him the gift of a life of living one's dreams.

Edited December 17, 2018 by JackThompson

[Bang Bang]

15 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

This guy was fortunate enough that his parents set him up not to waste decades of his life doing mindless-chores for permission to eat and sleep indoors. 

Instead he does nothing at all other than

 

58 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

looking at the stock market and arranging funds here and there periodically.

which seems a heckuva waste given that he could have applied daddy dough/mommy mulla to achieve something more substantial than a Thai dotage in a few decades.

 

But, hey, it's his life his money, he does what he pleases. Not to mention this is a blatant thread hijack.

[Maestro]

6 hours ago, sanemax said:

So , the Thai Embassy in Vientiane send a message to Koh Tao divers who then typed that message on a piece of paper and stuck on the outside wall of the Thai Embassy ?

No. Do you see the shadow of the text on the sticker thrown onto the notice sheet? That is because of the distance between the sticker and the notice sheet and the angle at which the sun shone on the sticker. In a cross-section, the board looks like this:

 

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

3 hours ago, elviajero said:

However, as the numbers of long term tourists grew the authorities had to keep the numbers in check, and they've been doing that since 2006.

Because?  What was the down-side to more self-funded long-term tourists?  More foreign-capital spending, jobs for Thais, etc?  I've never heard a good answer to this question from anyone.

Because a countries immigration policy is not just about money. You're describing a long term visitor, not a tourist. Thailand has options for long term stays and the simple fact is that some people don't qualify. Most countries, Thailand included, want tourists to visit, spend money and leave.

 

Not many under 50's can self fund themselves for months/years without working.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Those entering Thailand with Valid Tourist Visas are breaking no laws or rules - unless they don't have 20K Baht in Cash to show upon entry (silly rule, given ATMs, but is on-the-books), or violate the terms of the visa (no working, don't overstay).

And IO's aren't breaking any laws/rules by denying entry to visitors living long term in the country as tourists.

[KiChakayan]

9 hours ago, BritTim said:

There are groups, not working here, for whom there is no "right visa". These are people who are mainly financially secure, under 50 and wanting to spend a lot of time here. People need to spend their time somewhere and, if they like being in Thailand, it is not clear why Thailand would not want them here. That leaves aside people in relationships with people here who do not qualify for visas based on that relationship (unmarried, married but same sex, married but to non Thais and so on).

 

Thailand has the right to make any rules on visas and permissions to stay they like. However, those who look at the rules and decide tourist visas are legally their best option should not be treated like criminals.

Thailand Elite is your answer. So, all situations have been covered. If you are "financially secure" and have such a high motivation to stay in Thailand then nothing should stop you from getting one.

[farangx]

To spend 6 months here as a tourist, there must be really much to see and do in Thailand.  But if you are abusing the visa for something besides touring, then don't complain about what the Thai embassies or consulates do to enforce such visas because your time is up.  

 

Maybe a letter of some sort of an appreciation for another back to back tourist visa are in order.  To  explain why a tourist like you lugged a 60" inch tv all over the kingdom on tour coaches because of your addiction to Thai tv programs and love for all things Thailand. They might even give you a 50% discount on your next tourist visa.