Chiang Mai Immigration Non-O visa steps

[Ravi98008]

Hello Forum, My ultimate goal is to get a Retirement Visa without paying the 24,000 Bhat plus Immigration fees, that local reputable Agencies are asking.  I got my 30 day stamp extended for 30 more days at the Chiang mai immigration office. My visa now expires Jan 26th.  By Jan 7th I will be having the 800K Bhat in BBK bank. I am planning to apply for a Non O visa on January 7th.  I have my TM 86, 6 months lease papers, BBK Bank letter dated and issued on Sunday one day before my application at Chiang Mai Immigration Office,  Receipt of Notification issued and signed by immigration documenting my physical address of stay, A google map photo copy pinpointing my actual apt location.  Copies of my USA Bank statements documenting how the 800K was deposited into my BBK account, matching the deposit and withdrawal dates.  What I don't have is a letter from my Apartment complex on their letter head stating that I am living at the specified address ( my apt manager refused to give it to me) they insisted that all they are obligated was to give me a TM 30, which I used to get the Receipt of Notification, which I am presuming would satisfy my residence certificate requirement. However if the Forum recommends I can obtain a copy of a Residence certificate issued by Immigration (please see attached file) using my Receipt of Notification. Here is my question, Am I missing any documents ? Do I need the Residence certificate like the one attached below ? Finally any more valuable advice the forum's distinguished members offer me would be greatly appreciated. Thank you all.  Please forgive me if I am not supposed to start a new topic/thread, and correct me if necessary, thanks again 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Ravi98008
typos, missing relevant important information

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, Ravi98008 said:

Copies of my USA Bank statements documenting how the 800K was deposited into my BBK account, matching the deposit and withdrawal dates. 

You will need a letter from your Thai bank to prove the funds were transferred from abroad the statements from your bank from the US will not be accepted. You will also need a letter from the bank confirming your account and the balance in it on the day the letter is written.

 

Do you have receipts for the rent payments. That may be enough but I cannot predict what Chiang Mai immigration will want instead of a rental agreement that is often asked for.

[Ravi98008]

Quote

Thank you very much, I have the rental receipts, and the Rental agreement drawn on september 2018 for a 6 month lease. I will work on the BBK letter. I used my USA ATM CARD to draw 25K every day for 32 days at  my  BBK bank ATM with whom I have an account with. Since I did not do a WIRE TRANSFER, I am not sure if they will vouch for  the source of Funds. Can I add to my original question and ask If the IMMIGRATION will accept my ATM receipts as evidence of Funds coming from an USA Bank. Just In case BBK Bank refuses to vouch for the source of Funds Origin.

 

Edited December 27, 2018 by Ravi98008
Missing important details

[Ravi98008]

To Ubonjoe 

With all due respect I would like to say that I spoke to BBK asking them to issue me a certificate confirming the source of the funds and the balance available on the day the certificate is issued, the BBK declined to vouch the source of the funds, but is happy to provide me with a certificate confirming the balance on the account on the day the certificate is made. For a standard fee of 100 Bhat they will give me a certificate they always issued that satisfied the Immigration requirements. Anything other than the normal will be denied. They turned around and challenged me to show the documentation from the immigration requesting the source of the funds. I politely backed off and said that I Will get back to them if the immigration needed proof of the source of the funds. They suggested that I provide the immigration a statement of my account in USA showing the withdrawal of the funds from that account to a Thai BBK ATM machine

Thanks for taking the time to guide me through this process which I have been working on since the past few months

 

 

 

 

[1337markus]

without paying the 24,000 Bhat plus Immigration fees, that local reputable Agencies are asking.

 

BS statement of the year. Obviously you do not shop around. Including government fee and multi entry fee plus agents fee and  four 90 day reports I have only paid 10,000 every year. That is my choice before all the TV experts talk about doing it yourself.

[ubonjoe]

6 hours ago, Ravi98008 said:

With all due respect I would like to say that I spoke to BBK asking them to issue me a certificate confirming the source of the funds and the balance available on the day the certificate is issued, the BBK declined to vouch the source of the funds

They have done them before. Perhaps not at that branch. If they didn't others would not of had their visa application accepted.

6 hours ago, Ravi98008 said:

They turned around and challenged me to show the documentation from the immigration requesting the source of the funds.

From immigration website "5.3 Evidence of foreign currency fund transferred to Thailand"

Source: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_80  (click Eng at top of page for English)

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

10 hours ago, Ravi98008 said:

With all due respect I would like to say that I spoke to BBK asking them to issue me a certificate confirming the source of the funds and the balance available on the day the certificate is issued, the BBK declined to vouch the source of the funds

They have done them before. Perhaps not at that branch. If they didn't others would not of had their visa application accepted.

 

I think the problem is not that the bank won't provide a letter of his account-history, but rather ...

On 12/27/2018 at 11:14 AM, Ravi98008 said:

I used my USA ATM CARD to draw 25K every day for 32 days at  my  BBK bank ATM with whom I have an account with. Since I did not do a WIRE TRANSFER, I am not sure if they will vouch for  the source of Funds.

 

So, all the bank saw, were cash-deposits - not an incoming foreign xfer.  All he has is ...

On 12/27/2018 at 11:14 AM, Ravi98008 said:

Can I add to my original question and ask If the IMMIGRATION will accept my ATM receipts as evidence of Funds coming from an USA Bank. Just In case BBK Bank refuses to vouch for the source of Funds Origin.

 

 

4 hours ago, 1337markus said:

BS statement of the year. Obviously you do not shop around. Including government fee and multi entry fee plus agents fee and  four 90 day reports I have only paid 10,000 every year. That is my choice before all the TV experts talk about doing it yourself.

It sounds as if you are describing an extension (multi-entry, 90-day reports), not a "Non-O Stamp" (though maybe you are including this preliminary step for an initial extension?) 

 

Could you send a PM about your agent in Chang Mai to the OP?  I am sure he would be grateful.

[Ravi98008]

Thanks again for the immigration Link. I will go to a different branch and request the needed letter. They charge 100 Bhat, there fore it is better to make sure I get what I ask for before paying. Thanks again

[Ravi98008]

To 1337 Markus, I understand that there are agents who can do the job for 10K or under. I only shopped the real big big ones with large overhead costs.  I didn't understand your abbreviations PM and OP.  I am assuming PM means personal message, but have no clue what OP means.  

[Justin Side]

5 minutes ago, Ravi98008 said:

To 1337 Markus, I understand that there are agents who can do the job for 10K or under. I only shopped the real big big ones with large overhead costs.  I didn't understand your abbreviations PM and OP.  I am assuming PM means personal message, but have no clue what OP means.  

The OP is you.

[Suradit69]

13 hours ago, Ravi98008 said:

 

With all due respect I would like to say that I spoke to BBK asking them to issue me a certificate confirming the source of the funds and the balance available on the day the certificate is issued

I get a letter from the manager of my Bangkok Bank branch every year when renewing my extension of stay. It shows recent foreign incoming transfers and the balance on the day it was written. Photocopies of my bank passbook also indicate the deposits were from foreign transfers.

 

Asking for the "source" might be confusing. The letter shows the deposits are foreign originated, but not the specific source.

[Ravi98008]

Suradit69

Thanks, in your case the transfers were wire transfers. In my case they were 32 deposits made at the BBK teller for 25000 Bhat each which were withdrawn using a US ATM card. All I have is 32 ATM withdrawal slips and 32 deposit slips both from BBK, but the Bank only wants to give me a standard letter written in Thai addressed to the immigration officer Chiang Mai. The letter only verifies the balance to date

 

Edited December 28, 2018 by Ravi98008
Missing information

[Ravi98008]

How am I supposed to be standing outside the immigration gates before 7am get a que ticket and at the same time get a letter from the bank on the same day which opens at 10am, because the immigration needs the letter to be dated the same day as the immigration application date. Catch 22, but I will find out an alternative. Just thinking aloud to myself

[ubonjoe]

7 minutes ago, Ravi98008 said:

How am I supposed to be standing outside the immigration gates before 7am get a que ticket and at the same time get a letter from the bank on the same day which opens at 10am, because the immigration needs the letter to be dated the same day as the immigration application date.

You can do the letter the day before. The info I posted is based upon Bangkok immigrations requirements and they will accept a letter from the day before.

Good luck proving your funds came from abroad. Not sure if what immigration will do with of all those ATM slips and your US bank statements.

[sandmonster]

I was at CM Immigration yesterday to change my 2 month tourist VISA into a non-O for retirement purposes. I have read most of the posts on this so I was kinda prepared but never 100% sure. Even so, here are some oddities and ad-hoc rules I faced yesterday. Its gonna be stressful, so stay relaxed and calm ( even with a local friend helping to translate .. it helps for sure as the officers can't really speak English well, and it certainly puts them at ease dealing with a local CM dialect speaker ). Accept you may be going back and forth to get the application submitted ( but not yet approved ). I had got my Bangkok Bank letter the previous say for 100bt and all the documents I thought I needed. My funds were sent in 2 batches in early September using Transferwise and I printed out the statements from them. Thats the only "proof" I had that they were sourced from abroad, so I thought what the hell, better than nothing. The dates and amount entries match whats in my bank book so fingers crossed,  pray and hope. My 2 month tourist VISA expires on 24th Jan.

 

I arrived at 10am and went to the main information queue to get a TM86 application form. The grumpy male IO handed me 2 blank TM86s ( without even looking at me ), said "fill in and come back". Just accept that he's stressed out and won't be all smiles unless you are a young, pretty chinese or korean girl.  The place was chaos with nowhere to fill in the form. Bring a dark BLUE biro ( NEVER use black ). I filled in 1 form on my knees in the carpark and attached all my documentation, all signed and dated ( DO NOT SIGN the bank letter ). My photo was 6x4cm with a blue background.  Went back to the info queue ( quite short around 10am ), and he had a quick look through all the sheets, took 1900bt and handed me a receipt, wrote the words Tourist and some dates on the form ( not sure at this stage why ). He then handled me a "T" queue slip which was confusing as that means "Tourist extension". I used the happy queue app on my mobile to check the position and queueing time. I was no T59 , and 20 behind the front. The app had an ETA of 11.45am. Anyway the queue shortened much faster than the app estimated as many people either didn't turn up when called or had popped out, trusting the accuracy of the app ? I was called at 11.15 to another IO. Junior and much more cheerful. He seemed confused when I told him I had applied for a non-O. In my passport, they had given me a 30 day Tourist extension. After discussing with the seniors, he said I didnt have enough time left on my tourist VISA to do the non-O. They stated I needed 21 WORKING DAYS left on the current VISA to apply. So it seems without telling me, or explaining, or asking me to apply for an extension, they just gave me one ( even though it was on the wrong form for a Tourist extension ). OK, stay calm.. and start again. Back to the info queue and the grumpy officer gave me 2 more TM86 blank forms. He said "fill in, 2 copies of everything". I asked if I could do one set and photocopy the other. He blanked me or didn't understand so I did 2 sets seperately to be safe. So back to filling in 2 x TM86 on the bench outside, then across the road to the petrol station to get more blue photos and photocopies. I signed the copy of the bank letter. Keep the TM30 seperate from others for copies. Then back to the grumpy queue again. This time he looked again through the pile and gave me a K queue ticket of K12. It was already on K11 but I could see the counter for processing K was at the back of the room where 1-1 desk interrogations took place with a non smiling female IO. 20 mins later, K12 was called and I walked up to disturb an existing interview. The female IO gave me a dirty look and sent me to the back to another female IO, much more smiley. This IO went through the documentation and commented my bank book must show an entry for THAT DAY ( with an amount EQUAL to or MORE than the amount in the bank latter ). YOU CANNOT withdraw money from an ATM and update the bank book as the amount would be less ). She kindly advised us to go to the bank counter where they can do a current day entry update. She said ONLY Bangkok Bank can do this current date entry, and with other banks, you need to deposit cash and then update. She also asked me to write a simple letter confirming where my funds came from e.g savings, rent , etc etc. The MAP was not asked for. Also, there were 2 new forms with T&Cs and warnings about overstay penalties which I signed but didn't date at that point. So off to Airport plaza, get some lunch and sit down at a coffee shop to write a letter and its copy. After lunch, back to get another K ticket and revisit our friendly K queue IO. At the desk she went through each piece of documentation on on both sets and highlighted key parts with a marker. Then she stamped each form over my signatures and asked me to write my full name as well next to my signature. She warned me I shouldn't have dated each. Finally I dated the 2 new forms. During all this she happily answered my questions about how the approval works and how many she deals with a day. Suffice to say its scores a day, 50% are from chinese, each needs over 10 levels of management approval, her boss didn't like signatures upside down from the main information so please make the orientation right, and about 3 inches below the information ( so her stamp fits perfectly over it ). She praised me for staying so calm and how I had included almost all the documents perfectly first time. I would deduce it takes multiple visits with non english speakers or stressed out ferang. Then I paid 2000bt, got a receipt in my passport stating a return date of 21 Jan. They took a photo and I was on my way about 3pm.

 

I hope my report will be of help to you and others. But remember, its just one friendly IO at CM dealing with a local dialect friend of mine. I have no idea if my non-O will be approved it yet. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, sandmonster said:

I hope my report will be of help to you and others. But remember, its just one friendly IO at CM dealing with a local dialect friend of mine. I have no idea if my non-O will be approved it yet. 

I am glad to hear they are no longer setting appointments way-off into the future - beyond which your 21-days minimum hass passed - unless you used an agent.  No idea why they still want 21 days instead of the normal 15. 

 

I would say your process went very smoothly for that service.  Thanks for posting the report.  I think you are very likely to get your stamp, but let us know if any issues come up.

[sandmonster]

36 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

I am glad to hear they are no longer setting appointments way-off into the future - beyond which your 21-days minimum hass passed - unless you used an agent.  No idea why they still want 21 days instead of the normal 15. 

 

I would say your process went very smoothly for that service.  Thanks for posting the report.  I think you are very likely to get your stamp, but let us know if any issues come up.

My next appointment works out at 15 working days after submission ( 31 and 1 are holidays ). No idea why they said I needed 21 working days remaining on my VISA to apply. But I heard that from 2 seperate IOs.

 

[Ravi98008]

To Sandmonster 

Thanks for your post describing your experience. For the sake of my benefit and the rest who will follow this thread, could you please be kind enough to list in order the documents you put together to make your application complete and accepted by the immigration office, greatly appreciate, thanks

 

[sandmonster]

9 hours ago, Ravi98008 said:

To Sandmonster 

Thanks for your post describing your experience. For the sake of my benefit and the rest who will follow this thread, could you please be kind enough to list in order the documents you put together to make your application complete and accepted by the immigration office, greatly appreciate, thanks

 

 

This is what I submitted under my circumstances, 2 sets

 

1. Main page of passport, Tourist VISA + extension ( Need 21+ working days remaining for the application )

2. Entry stamp, TM6.

3. Original Bank Letter (no older than 7 days), ID page of passbook, passbook entries for period of 800K+ funds sourcing with the LAST ENTRY SHOWING the balance on the DATE OF APPLICATION and MUST NOT BE LESS THAN the amount confirmed in Bank's letter ( So don't take cash out on the day to get an update. Do a deposit or a counter update if available on the day )

4. Evidence of foreign sourcing of funds. In my case, all receipts from Transferwise.

5. Residence details. In my case, Blue book signed by owner, owner ID card. Signed Letter in Thai from owner confirming my residence & relationship.

6. TM30 notification ( + receipts for any associated fines if relevant - IMPORTANT )

7. Letter to whom it many concern declaring your full name, identified with passport number and citizenship,  how you will financially support your retirement. A statement of truth. A paragraph or 2, not specific details.

8. Photo 6x4 blue background. signed at back

9. TM86 form . Add phone and email on the back

 

All sheets ( except the original bank letter ), signed in BLUE ink, + FULL NAME IN CAPITALS, same orientation as info. I would advise writing below, leaving a white space area all around of approx 3in so they can stamp over the signature + name part. You do not need to date any sheets. Do not simply photocopy the original set. All signatures must be original.

 

For the bank letter, ONLY sign and name the duplicate copy. DO NOT write on the original !

 

I would advice only use 1 sheet single per piece of info. Definitely do the TM30 notice on its own. Don't use double sided photocopies.

 

Safer to use their TM86 from the information counter ( It HAS to be double sided )

 

Create 2 sets. Note 1 as the original set ( with official bank letter ). The other is the duplicate. Put in 2 seperate folders for them. Group the TM30 stuff with the residence info. They will appreciate it.

 

Hope that helps. Be sympathetic to their inflexibility. There is method to their madness if you imagine each IO has to do this 20x a day, 5 days a week, 85% from non English speakers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2018 by sandmonster
spelling errors

[Ravi98008]

Bravo Sandmaster you are on your way to join the elite members of the highly covetted Thai Visa forum.  Hoping to see your list of documents needed for your Retirement permit convertion. 

[Ravi98008]

Sandmaster, posts such as yours describing the Visa process in deapth sure would put a dent in the Agencies businesses. 

Edited December 29, 2018 by Ravi98008
typos

[fredge45]

Thanks for cutting out the corruption (transparent) of the agencies.

 

[JackThompson]

On 12/28/2018 at 8:59 PM, sandmonster said:

My next appointment works out at 15 working days after submission ( 31 and 1 are holidays ). No idea why they said I needed 21 working days remaining on my VISA to apply. But I heard that from 2 seperate IOs.

The normal rule is you must apply 15 days before your current permitted-stay will expire.  For some reason, CW sets it to 21 days before.  As long as you have already put in your application for the Non-O stamp, you are fine.  I think your "next appointment" is to get the stamp itself, after it has been approved.

[ubonjoe]

32 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

For some reason, CW sets it to 21 days before.

At Chaeng Wattana you must have at least 15 days remaining on your entry to apply and that is what is shown as the requirement on the immigration website.

Chiang Mai wants at least 21 days remaining which was the rule many years ago.

[bkk6060]

On 12/28/2018 at 7:23 AM, 1337markus said:

 

 

BS statement of the year. 

That is what I would say about your post.

 

I know about the agents in CM.

No agent is going to do all that including the 90 day reports for 10,000 b.  I challenge you to name the agency as I am sure they want the business.

But, you won't because it is fantasy.

[JackThompson]

5 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

At Chaeng Wattana you must have at least 15 days remaining on your entry to apply and that is what is shown as the requirement on the immigration website.

Chiang Mai wants at least 21 days remaining which was the rule many years ago.

Typo - meant "CM" not "CW" - thanks for the correction.  Chang Wattana seems to allow applicants to do everything by the book.

[Ravi98008]

Sandmonster Thanks. My process went exactly like you said. I was stamped on the receipt to come back on Jan 24, 21 days from interview. Due to the 800000 Bhat rule not very many people. My number was called in  10 minutes wait because not many retired folks have$25000 to deposit in Thai bank. For those who are going to apply, here is some thing you can add to the documents list... Take copies of your Bank account statements for the past few months say 6.  Then take your Social security benefits verification letter, take the print out of the page that shows the payments made and the corresponding dates, go back like 6 to 9 payments.  Even though you use moneytransfer or some other service for wire transfer the money still has to come from your US bank account, so when you submit bank account statements, that will pop up also.   the statements plus the social security benefits Data strengthen your application buy telling them how you conduct your financial business of taking care of yourself in your home country. Bank statements are not needed, but if you have a lot of activity to show then include them. Social security statements a definite must. I only showed my current Visa stamp but you are supposed to show proof of prior entry Visa stamps and their corresponding 24 hour reportings that the hotel, house,or apartment does to notify the immigration on your physical address on landing. No need for TM 30 for those prior arrivals. Only the current TM 30 is needed. Your lease documents are required and she went through the dates on the lease with a magnifying glass and had the 2018 callender in front of her. As far as the 800000 is concerned, if the money is there and the Thailand Bank  gives a letter confirming the funds in your name, you are Ok. She did take my Google map of my physical address, so include that one.  I can't think of anything else to add to what Sandmonster already added. We just have to wait for his follow up posts about his retirement permit documents needed and the order in which he presents them Etc. Not much needed though. The bulk of the documents are already submitted. Retirement permit is just an additional appendage to Non O visa

 

[Ravi98008]

After submitting the application for a Non O A immigration Visa and paying the 2000B fee, I was asked to come back in 21 days.  My question is during those 21 days what is happening on the back end of the process, such as documents verification or is it just the application travels through the immigration hierarchical levels. Thanks

[ubonjoe]

13 minutes ago, Ravi98008 said:

After submitting the application for a Non O A immigration Visa and paying the 2000B fee, I was asked to come back in 21 days.  My question is during those 21 days what is happening on the back end of the process, such as documents verification or is it just the application travels through the immigration hierarchical levels. Thanks

Your application is send to the division headquarters for the region where you apply for approval. That is why there is the 21 days. If you are using the money in the bank option they could check that is still there.

[yuiop]

On 12/29/2018 at 9:27 AM, sandmonster said:

 

This is what I submitted under my circumstances, 2 sets

 

1. Main page of passport, Tourist VISA + extension ( Need 21+ working days remaining for the application )

2. Entry stamp, TM6.

3. Original Bank Letter (no older than 7 days), ID page of passbook, passbook entries for period of 800K+ funds sourcing with the LAST ENTRY SHOWING the balance on the DATE OF APPLICATION and MUST NOT BE LESS THAN the amount confirmed in Bank's letter ( So don't take cash out on the day to get an update. Do a deposit or a counter update if available on the day )

4. Evidence of foreign sourcing of funds. In my case, all receipts from Transferwise.

5. Residence details. In my case, Blue book signed by owner, owner ID card. Signed Letter in Thai from owner confirming my residence & relationship.

6. TM30 notification ( + receipts for any associated fines if relevant - IMPORTANT )

7. Letter to whom it many concern declaring your full name, identified with passport number and citizenship,  how you will financially support your retirement. A statement of truth. A paragraph or 2, not specific details.

8. Photo 6x4 blue background. signed at back

9. TM86 form . Add phone and email on the back

 

All sheets ( except the original bank letter ), signed in BLUE ink, + FULL NAME IN CAPITALS, same orientation as info. I would advise writing below, leaving a white space area all around of approx 3in so they can stamp over the signature + name part. You do not need to date any sheets. Do not simply photocopy the original set. All signatures must be original.

 

For the bank letter, ONLY sign and name the duplicate copy. DO NOT write on the original !

 

I would advice only use 1 sheet single per piece of info. Definitely do the TM30 notice on its own. Don't use double sided photocopies.

 

Safer to use their TM86 from the information counter ( It HAS to be double sided )

 

Create 2 sets. Note 1 as the original set ( with official bank letter ). The other is the duplicate. Put in 2 seperate folders for them. Group the TM30 stuff with the residence info. They will appreciate it.

 

Hope that helps. Be sympathetic to their inflexibility. There is method to their madness if you imagine each IO has to do this 20x a day, 5 days a week, 85% from non English speakers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What a nightmare. Thanks a lot anyway for reporting.