How about Vietnam?

[Brunolem]

7 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Per capita GDP is 300% greater in Thailand.  $2,303  vs $6,663.  Vietnam is not in the same league.  Vietnam has 23 vehicles per 1000 people Thailand has 225.  It is like comparing the stone age to modernity. 

 

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/vietnam/thailand?sc=XE15

You also have to take the trend into consideration, as well as wealth inequality. 

 

Thailand has a higher GDP, but sadly it's all in the hands of a lucky few families. 

 

As for the cars, the lesser the better... 

[tideout]

5 hours ago, Mai Mee Tang said:

7 hours ago, baansgr said:

But most of us that came here, especially years ago, came to get away from traffic, so its a bonus what you have posted. 

If you might think traffic in Thailand is crazy, which I do think, you should have a look at Ho Chi Minh! I have NEVER seen in my whole life a city with so many motorbikes, I heard about 6millions, amazing to see how they manage not to crash in the big roundabouts at rush hour.

You're quite right on this. 12-13 million people (unofficial but more accurate count) in the city with 10-15 deaths a day in the HCM area from motorbike accidents. It causes horrendous noise and air pollution as well. I've duck walked my motorbike home from work a number of times - no room to move, stuck in the rain etc.. I've actually gotten stuck in traffic jams in parking garages before going out to the streets.....taking a taxi can be worse as they're bigger and less able to find a path out......

[BritManToo]

11 hours ago, scorecard said:

I've visited HCMC, Hanoi and VT twice a year (all 3 locations) every year for the past 12 years), I have never once been approached. 

I guess you ain't that hansum!

[tideout]

Just now, BritManToo said:

I guess you ain't that hansum!

Guys are very likely to get approached in the Bui Vien, Pham Ngu Lao tourist/backpacker area. Not any different or better than the riverfront in Phnom Penh, Sukhumvit in BKK  and dozens of other tourist areas.....motorbike-style robberies are probably the main physical threat to tourists.....

[marcusarelus]

10 hours ago, baansgr said:

Who cares about GDP........thats just it.....people are fed up with thailand the way it is. It was all here befor but with the advent of social media its blatant that it is very far from a hospitable place to be

Everybody cares about the GDP.  The gross domestic product (GDP) is the primary indicators used to gauge the health of a country's economy.  Same with Thailand, it's the economy, stupid!

 

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, Brunolem said:

You also have to take the trend into consideration, as well as wealth inequality. 

 

Thailand has a higher GDP, but sadly it's all in the hands of a lucky few families. 

 

As for the cars, the lesser the better... 

Check your facts.   Gini coefficient is about the same as Canada.  I really wish you bashers would bring some facts to the table instead of old inaccurate cliches.  Vietnam has a stone age economy and infrastructure and not comparable to Thailand.  

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Check your facts.   Gini coefficient is about the same as Canada.  I really wish you bashers would bring some facts to the table instead of old inaccurate cliches.  Vietnam has a stone age economy and infrastructure and not comparable to Thailand.  

I don't know about Canada, but the FACT is that, just days ago, a survey showed Thailand was world number one in wealth inequality... a representative from the government even came out to say that this was not exactly true. 

The whole thing can be seen, or read, on Aljazeera website. 

(Aljazeera is not a Thailand basher) 

[Brunolem]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Everybody cares about the GDP.  The gross domestic product (GDP) is the primary indicators used to gauge the health of a country's economy.  Same with Thailand, it's the economy, stupid!

 

GDP is very unreliable obsession, that doesn't reflect the health of a country's economy, but rather the mental health of its leaders. 

 

China is a good example of that, announcing a year in advance a GDP growth of 6.9%, then publishing every quarter a growth that exactly matches the predictions, more or less 0.1%...all that in a 1.4 billion people economy! 

 

And the hapless journalists gobble all that with their mouth wide open, before serving it back to the credulous crowds... 

 

One of the many problems with GDP is that it doesn't take debt into consideration... it is like looking at the assets side of a balance sheet, while ignoring the liabilities side! 

 

The US is very good at using this "loophole", claiming a wonderful GDP growth, while keeping silence on a debt growing at twice the GDP rate, or more... 

[NCC1701A]

i just completed my research.

 

 

[thaiguzzi]

13 hours ago, baansgr said:

Sadly Thailand went down the crapper a long time ago.....all the points you mentioned are available and of course will progress just as Thailand has over the years. The main point for me is the total dislike of Foreigners here from the top echelons of government down to somchai taxi guy, so having to queue at the bank once in while in a friendly environment far outweighs the daily drudge of having to deal with retards that throw their dummy out the pram at the least little thing

Ah, another one.

A jingoist, nationalistic, racist lack of integration moaner.

Live in Pattaya or another tourist hell hole?

Thought so.

Can't speak the lingo?

Thought so.

Prefer your home cooked food just like Mommy made it back when rather than this weird spicy stuff they dish up here?

Thought so.

Etc etc to oblivion.

13 hours ago, baansgr said:

the total dislike of Foreigners here from the top echelons of government down to somchai taxi guy,

 

13 hours ago, baansgr said:

the daily drudge of having to deal with retards that throw their dummy out the pram at the least little thing

Your experience.

Not mine at all.

Strange that.

Innit?

Best you refill your glass, as it will always be half empty.

[onera1961]

36 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

The US is very good at using this "loophole", claiming a wonderful GDP growth, while keeping silence on a debt growing at twice the GDP rate, or more... 

People (or investors) lend you money when they feel you can pay it. If your GDP is bad, people won't lend you money. Japan has proved that debt is immaterial, it is your ability to pay.

[Cadbury]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Yes, there definitely is no retirement visa for Vietnam and I totally agree that any changes in the future are likely to make it harder for foreigners to retire there. 

You are right there is no retirement visa. In recent years they have sporadically issued 12 month visas but for some reason every now and then they go back to 3 month visas. On the credit side work permits are relatively trouble free to get. 

A 5 year Certificates for Visa Exemption for marriage cost US$10 and involve a health check and certificate of no impediment to marriage and that's about it. It has to be stamped every 6 months and that can easily be done at a police station (without forms of any sort) or by passing through immigration when returning from a trip outside the country. For marriage there are no requirements for money in a bank or arduous trips to Immigration or home visits by the local plod such as in Thailand. 

Vietnamese banks are safe. I have had a reasonably large amount of money invested for about 10 years. Interest rate is now about 8% on term deposit.

 

 

[madmen]

5 hours ago, tideout said:

Guys are very likely to get approached in the Bui Vien, Pham Ngu Lao tourist/backpacker area. Not any different or better than the riverfront in Phnom Penh, Sukhumvit in BKK  and dozens of other tourist areas.....motorbike-style robberies are probably the main physical threat to tourists.....

Much Higher crime rates against ex pats. First day there the hotel staff said best leave your man bag inside. Motorbike snatch and Run is rampant 

[sharktooth]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

i just completed my research.

 

 

Great scene!

[tideout]

Just now, madmen said:

Much Higher crime rates against ex pats. First day there the hotel staff said best leave your man bag inside. Motorbike snatch and Run is rampant 

Yes, I'd say the crime is higher here than Thailand especially of the grab and run type. To be fair, there are tons of stories from Vietnamese about getting ripped off themselves. Typically crime like this goes up when there are big soccer matches (gambling debt) or around the Tet holiday (general debt). There are of course the police rip offs all the time. They basically set up shop on a busy street and literally take money from everyone for nothing. 

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, onera1961 said:

People (or investors) lend you money when they feel you can pay it. If your GDP is bad, people won't lend you money. Japan has proved that debt is immaterial, it is your ability to pay.

Are you really THAT misinformed? 

 

Do you really don't know that there is only ONE buyer for this crap, overtly or covertly, and it is called the central bank... which conveniently can print the necessary money at will... 

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, Cadbury said:

 

Vietnamese banks are safe. I have had a reasonably large amount of money invested for about 10 years. Interest rate is now about 8% on term deposit.

 

 

How does that compare with Cambodia, which also offers high rates, yet not that high these days? 

[SheungWan]

18 minutes ago, Brunolem said:

Are you really THAT misinformed? 

Do you really don't know that there is only ONE buyer for this crap, overtly or covertly, and it is called the central bank... which conveniently can print the necessary money at will... 

I guess all the Conspiracy Theorists are moving to Vietnam as well.

[SheungWan]

Re Vietnam, one big elephant in the room is the CP.

[tideout]

Just now, SheungWan said:

Re Vietnam, one big elephant in the room is the CP.

I think you're right on with this. It's subjective I guess, but a lot of Viets here are resentful of Hanoi's pro-China moves. Hanoi doesn't seem to really wait around much for Saigon's opinion on things are or how it will all work out. A lot of this is behind close doors and run in the back room of the various CP's led by China. That's why I wouldn't take easy-to-obtain work visas here - visa's that wouldn't even be legit for retirees, as meaning much. Just one example, ie. a general CP agreement to clamp down on work permits for foreigners who are from countries that are in a trade war with China isn't hard to imagine. When I worked on a short contract in China I couldn't get in for several days as the Chinese government was completely scuttling work visas for US citizens due to negative comments about China in the  US Congress......

 

[meinphuket]

Having worked and lived there, the Vietnamese are an ambitious and motivated people with a good attitude to work, totally unlike the staff here. 

[SheungWan]

34 minutes ago, tideout said:

I think you're right on with this. It's subjective I guess, but a lot of Viets here are resentful of Hanoi's pro-China moves. Hanoi doesn't seem to really wait around much for Saigon's opinion on things are or how it will all work out. A lot of this is behind close doors and run in the back room of the various CP's led by China. That's why I wouldn't take easy-to-obtain work visas here - visa's that wouldn't even be legit for retirees, as meaning much. Just one example, ie. a general CP agreement to clamp down on work permits for foreigners who are from countries that are in a trade war with China isn't hard to imagine. When I worked on a short contract in China I couldn't get in for several days as the Chinese government was completely scuttling work visas for US citizens due to negative comments about China in the  US Congress......

Unlike the Cambodian and the Philippines leadership, Vietnam has a history of a far more prickly relationship with Mainland China and is much greater independently inclined IMHO. Every so often clashes between the two that can really flare up. IMHO it is quite legitimate for individuals to prefer living in Vietnam, but a mistake to think that Vietnam is the answer to all of their sense of problems in Thailand. 

[SiamAndy]

5 hours ago, Cadbury said:

You are right there is no retirement visa. In recent years they have sporadically issued 12 month visas but for some reason every now and then they go back to 3 month visas. On the credit side work permits are relatively trouble free to get. 

A 5 year Certificates for Visa Exemption for marriage cost US$10 and involve a health check and certificate of no impediment to marriage and that's about it. It has to be stamped every 6 months and that can easily be done at a police station (without forms of any sort) or by passing through immigration when returning from a trip outside the country. For marriage there are no requirements for money in a bank or arduous trips to Immigration or home visits by the local plod such as in Thailand. 

Vietnamese banks are safe. I have had a reasonably large amount of money invested for about 10 years. Interest rate is now about 8% on term deposit.

 

 

Is it easy to open a bank account in Vietnam or is it potentially difficult as it is in Thailand?

[Cadbury]

1 minute ago, SiamAndy said:

Is it easy to open a bank account in Vietnam or is it potentially difficult as it is in Thailand?

Reasonably easy but you need a residential address. I had a three month visa at the time and was renting a house and had no trouble. That was ten years ago, not sure what it is like now but I expect it is the same. Some foreign banks might have different rules and might be a bit picky.

Never had any trouble with them, they always pay my interest annually on on time and I just roll the investment over. I opened a normal savings account and had the money transferred in my own currency and that gets converted to Vietnam dong. I then opened a separate Term Deposit account and transferred funds from the Savings account into it. No different to any other bank in the world.

When I first started I was getting 14% ???? but that's now down to 8% which is still OK; better than Thailand anyway.

The Vietnam government seem to keep the Dong relatively stable vis-a-vis the US dollar.

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, Brunolem said:

Are you really THAT misinformed? 

 

Do you really don't know that there is only ONE buyer for this crap, overtly or covertly, and it is called the central bank... which conveniently can print the necessary money at will... 

The lender decides how much the country is worth and divides that by the amount of currency available.  If the central bank prints more money the value of each bill goes down.  US$1 becoming equivalent to the staggering sum of Z$2,621,984,228. Welcome to Zimbabwe/Vietnam economy 101. 

[marcusarelus]

6 hours ago, Brunolem said:

I don't know about Canada, but the FACT is that, just days ago, a survey showed Thailand was world number one in wealth inequality... a representative from the government even came out to say that this was not exactly true. 

The whole thing can be seen, or read, on Aljazeera website. 

(Aljazeera is not a Thailand basher) 

You are correct.  I was wrong - looking at figures that were a few years old.  The wealth inequality in the past 5 years has grown immensely. 

[tideout]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

Unlike the Cambodian and the Philippines leadership, Vietnam has a history of a far more prickly relationship with Mainland China and is much greater independently inclined IMHO. Every so often clashes between the two that can really flare up. IMHO it is quite legitimate for individuals to prefer living in Vietnam, but a mistake to think that Vietnam is the answer to all of their sense of problems in Thailand. 

I don't really disagree with you but I think we (in the west) tend to hear a bit more about the tension you mention than the ongoing cooperation between the two countries. As I say, it's a bit subjective because it's not on the table for review. Recently, everything from collecting of old sim cards to requiring everyone (foreigners included) to have their picture on file with their phone company to Viet friends getting warnings from the government (they're being monitored now) to Beijing taking over the management and (eventually) the revenue of the Hanoi subway project has China's prints on it. 

So, I'd agree with your last sentence in particular but add ".....and if you think your'e avoiding the China influence......"

Thanks for responding....complicated subject.

 

[BritManToo]

5 minutes ago, tideout said:

Recently, everything from collecting of old sim cards to requiring everyone (foreigners included) to have their picture on file with their phone company to Viet friends getting warnings from the government (they're being monitored now)

 

I bought a SIM at HCMC airport in April, nobody took my photo, no forms, they didn't even ask my name.

It was 200,000dong for one-month unlimited internet, cash and carry.

[tideout]

Just now, BritManToo said:

I bought a SIM at HCMC airport in April, nobody took my photo, no forms, they didn't even ask my name.

It was 200,000dong for one-month unlimited internet, cash and carry.

Could be tied to your type of visa (?) but trust me, phone service was threatened to be turned off this last year if you didn't show up at your phone carrier to be photographed. As i recall, there was a way to do it online if you read Vietnamese. 

 

[tutsiwarrior]

10 hours ago, Cadbury said:

 

The Vietnam government seem to keep the Dong relatively stable vis-a-vis the US dollar.

 

indeed, the VN dong has been steady at about 22 - 23000 against the dollar for about 10 years now...at least since I was working there last in 2010...gold shop rates...

 

and although I like the place (Hanoi) a lot better than Thailand it ain't just the living expenses...yer emotional baggage gets hauled from place to place whether you like it or not...such that ye gotta think carefully before making a move...