How about Vietnam?

[rumak]

On 12/30/2018 at 10:25 PM, tideout said:

I guess this is the inevitable "escape" to Vietnam thread. I've lived here for 4 years and it's not even close to Thailand. I'll repeat it but a few of the rebuttals here already have it right. It's not as developed as Thailand by a long shot. It may someday be (not soon either) but it may be quite awhile. Vietnamese know it.

Good diagnostics on medical tests are often if not routinely sent to Singapore or BKK. It's light years from having anything like the MRT or BTS if ever. The latest reports have South Korea and Japan throwing in the towel on funding here for any transit or subway system. Why? The predictable levels of graft and corruption have mysteriously "lost" enough money to kill it. Oh, there's an option  - guess who'll be willing to fund it like they're funding it now. You guessed it, the Chinese. Wondering if that will clog up the cities with masses of Chinese visitors? No need to guess really. The Chinese embassy and the Ho Chi Minh City government have managed to "partner" together to increase the number of Chinese tourist in HCM from .5 million a year to 1.5 million a year. The HCM infrastructure can't handle Vietnamese for f-sake. Guess they could go elsewhere in Vietnam right? They're already over running places like Nha Trang and in another "partnership" the gov here gave away historic levels of a deal (99 year leases) in places like Phuoc - prime locations. You probably didn't hear about the arrests after people protested because a lot of people had the crap beaten out of them.

I may be wrong, but like another poster, I've never heard of a retirement visa here. Many are here on "business visas" which are easily obtainable NOW, but there's nothing saying this visa, tied to other employment trends might easily be changed. You're going to do another round of dubious visa processes here?

I understand some of the frustration with the Visa process in Thailand but equating this with a logical slide into Vietnam will leave even more people bewildered and unprepared at some point.

 

 

Now WHY did you have to post that ??   I was really hoping that we (thailand) were going to get a mass exodus of farangs living here ...    Reminds me of the guy on one post that said he left (never to come back)......six months later he was here again (with his tail between his legs....his words  lol )

Oh, the grass is always greener.........

[sharktooth]

3 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Its Communist. Unless absolutely necessary, I wont step foot in a Communist country.

Why?

[tideout]

2 hours ago, SiamAndy said:

How much does it cost to rent a scooter on a monthly basis in Hanoi or Saigon? In CM TL the cost is 2000 Baht. 

1,000,000 - 1,200,000

[damascase]

For those considering VN as their next stop: see this article in today’s Jakarta Post

https://www.thejakartapost.com/seasia/2019/01/01/vietnams-draconian-cybersecurity-bill-comes-into-effect.html

[tideout]

Just now, damascase said:

For those considering VN as their next stop: see this article in today’s Jakarta Post

https://www.thejakartapost.com/seasia/2019/01/01/vietnams-draconian-cybersecurity-bill-comes-into-effect.html

I probably shouldn't use this number as I don't have an immediate reference but I think the Viet government just added 10,000 new cyber police to "increase security". Big brother coming here.

[Ulic]

I have only made three trips to Vietnam. I visited Saigon, Nha Trang, Dalat. The beer was cheap, the food excellent, the hotels very good and comparable to the value you get in Thailand. The beach and water was cleaner than Thailand when I compare Jomtien to Nha Trang. Similar to the beaches of Phuket for cleanliness. Infrastructure development was going like mad in Vietnam while I was there. Airports were new but not that well organized. Condo construction was going full steam. I am judging that it will soon be well overbuilt and rental prices will drop to Thai levels for a similar level of accommodation. The roads were in excellent shape and big boulevards in the French style in the cities. I never felt unsafe while walking and driving around on a rented scooter. Everyone wears a helmet, and drives more slowly in a controlled, see and be seen manner. The horn is used in a tooting manner, not a honking manner. People letting you know where they are (in your blind spot). I understand this and it is not offensive. The people are friendly but there is very little English spoken outside tourist areas. As for the ladies/sex scene, I know it is there but it is low, really find it but I understand it runs double the rate of Thailand and of lesser quality. That said if you are living there girlfriends are looking for serious relationships and don't seem as hardened/jaded as many Thai ladies I read about. I took the train from Saigon to Nha Trang. It was both cheap and excellent. No double pricing and when they saw my buddies ID which was needed to book the ticket they told him he would be getting a 20% seniors discount. He didn't have to ask for it. Things do change quickly everywhere. Everyplace has its strengths and weaknesses. You really have to check things out for yourself as your decision will depend on how you weight the various strengths and weaknesses of each country. 

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, sharktooth said:

Why?

Because of my personal feelings about Communism.

[chicowoodduck]

Having spent the last few years enjoy VN have to say I always give HCMC a big miss.....far too busy and rough around the edges...prefer. The more quiet areas around Hanoi....found prices to be a bit cheaper than LOS and the people more to my liking....but having said that your mileage will vary.....????

[chicowoodduck]

3 hours ago, rumak said:

Now WHY did you have to post that ??   I was really hoping that we (thailand) were going to get a mass exodus of farangs living here ...    Reminds me of the guy on one post that said he left (never to come back)......six months later he was here again (with his tail between his legs....his words  lol )

Oh, the grass is always greener.........

For the same reason I never had a rear view mirror in my car....I never look back.....and by the way, the grass IS greener, just have to keep your eyes open and mouth shut....easy peasy...????

[tutsiwarrior]

VN is run by the VN communist party but that's not to say they are marxist leninist by any means or that VN is a 'communist' country...one needs to make the necessary distinctions and quit thinking in terms of literary dystopias...

 

there are about 3m VNCP members in a population of about 90m and they're like a big club, good benefits with housing and transport and the kids always get into university...most folks just carry on like they always have...and given that their wages are very low, even for professionals they have a serious work ethic that I haven't seen anywhere else in Asia...most folks are very capable and pleasant to work with except for the managers who have their heads stuck up their asses with the usual asian hierarchical bullshit...'I am the manager and you must respect and obey me...' and the westerner snickers 'yeah, right...'

 

unfortunately he's probably a VNCP member as he wouldn't be in his position otherwise...

 

 

[marcusarelus]

12 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

and in Thailand most of the cars are owned by the bank as well as anything else in value, very few own anything outright.

 

Oh really?  Did you tell the 15.9 million of Thais who own land.

[TPI]

On 12/30/2018 at 9:46 PM, marcusarelus said:

Per capita GDP is 300% greater in Thailand.  $2,303  vs $6,663.  Vietnam is not in the same league.  Vietnam has 23 vehicles per 1000 people Thailand has 225.  It is like comparing the stone age to modernity. 

 

https://countryeconomy.com/countries/compare/vietnam/thailand?sc=XE15

So, in your opinion, having the roads choked with cars is a much better way to go? What they don't have with cars they do have with scooters! Millions of the darn things! For me the big point is, these people have courage and honour, they hold their heads high, they allow the government to govern as they are quite prepared to throw them out if they don't govern properly! You quickly learn to RESPECT Vietnamese people!

[sharktooth]

13 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Because of my personal feelings about Communism.

Strangely enough the streets aren’t lined with peasants waving little black books.

[tideout]

Just now, TPI said:

So, in your opinion, having the roads choked with cars is a much better way to go? What they don't have with cars they do have with scooters! Millions of the darn things! For me the big point is, these people have courage and honour, they hold their heads high, they allow the government to govern as they are quite prepared to throw them out if they don't govern properly! You quickly learn to RESPECT Vietnamese people!

You must be kidding. There's little protest to what the government does here really. I don't blame them for the most, the government is quite repressive. People may find fault with the Red shirt movement in Thailand but there's nothing even close to that in Vietnam. There are very strict laws about assembly. The government follows all of these things very closely. My understanding is that every pagoda (wat) and every large lecture in a university has a "watcher". Now they're going to add heavy oversight on internet comments, blogs etc.....

[Nyezhov]

32 minutes ago, sharktooth said:

Strangely enough the streets aren’t lined with peasants waving little black books.

Because I have fun on this Forum (and get to keep my English language skills up), Im not going to engage in a debate about Marxism/Communism etc "off topic". I am trying to avoid politics as much as possible.

 

Anyone is free to PM me for such a debate or indeed on any political subject, if they feel they can keep up ????

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, TPI said:

So, in your opinion, having the roads choked with cars is a much better way to go? What they don't have with cars they do have with scooters! Millions of the darn things! For me the big point is, these people have courage and honour, they hold their heads high, they allow the government to govern as they are quite prepared to throw them out if they don't govern properly! You quickly learn to RESPECT Vietnamese people!

Tyranny is a defining characteristic of Vietnam’s communist party and the very reason the party has controlled the country for more than forty years. 

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/vietnams-crackdown-dissidents-isnt-new-33081

 

There is an old Vietnamese expression: “New glass, old wine.”

Human Rights Watch reported that as many as 119 dissidents were serving prison sentences for speaking out against the Vietnamese government.

 

Cars are a measure of industrialization as opposed to farming.  Vietnamese would have more cars if they could afford them but 251,000 families are in extreme poverty and have to suffer hunger on a daily basis.

 

Average Vietnamese makes a couple of thousand US dollars per year.  That's less than the allowance I gave my 12 year old. 

[Brunolem]

18 hours ago, JimmyJ said:

Interesting information.

 

Is it difficult for a foreigner to open a bank account in Vietnam and Cambodia to take advantage of those interest rates?

Are those accounts insured?

 

Have you looked into Laotian banks or those of other neighboring countries? Comparable interest rates in any?

I don't know about Vietnam, but it is not difficult in Cambodia. 

Actually, all the banks are waiting for customers arriving from Thailand on the other side of the border in Cham Yeam, after crossing coming from Trat... 

[tideout]

Just now, Brunolem said:

I don't know about Vietnam, but it is not difficult in Cambodia. 

Actually, all the banks are waiting for customers arriving from Thailand on the other side of the border in Cham Yeam, after crossing coming from Trat... 

 

Just now, marcusarelus said:

Tyranny is a defining characteristic of Vietnam’s communist party and the very reason the party has controlled the country for more than forty years. 

https://nationalinterest.org/feature/vietnams-crackdown-dissidents-isnt-new-33081

 

There is an old Vietnamese expression: “New glass, old wine.”

Human Rights Watch reported that as many as 119 dissidents were serving prison sentences for speaking out against the Vietnamese government.

 

Cars are a measure of industrialization as opposed to farming.  Vietnamese would have more cars if they could afford them but 251,000 families are in extreme poverty and have to suffer hunger on a daily basis.

 

Average Vietnamese makes a couple of thousand US dollars per year.  That's less than the allowance I gave my 12 year old. 

Good post. Today I got bounced from the "Vietnamese version of Facebook" as it's not linked to my registered phone and photo. They didn't wait long into the new year I see.......

[ryane66]

8 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Oh really?  Did you tell the 15.9 million of Thais who own land.

Farm land in Isaan mainly. Lots trying to sell , no one buying. I bike by a vehicle repossession

lot every day. Full of cars and trucks heading to the weekly auction in Udon Thani. Many Thais are heavily in debt. Borrowing from loan sharks to try and stay afloat. I know this from my wife not rumors.

[Berkshire]

20 hours ago, damascase said:

For those considering VN as their next stop: see this article in today’s Jakarta Post

https://www.thejakartapost.com/seasia/2019/01/01/vietnams-draconian-cybersecurity-bill-comes-into-effect.html

Interesting article.  And some people complain about censorship in Thailand.  From the article:

 

[The law also bans internet users in Vietnam from spreading information deemed to be anti-state, anti-government or use the internet to distort history and "post false information that could cause confusion and damage to socio-economic activities".]

 

I can just imagine some old geezer living in Vietnam and complaining about it on some forum (like TV) and being hauled to jail for being "anti-government."  He'll try to claim Freedom of Speech and be laughed at all the way to the big house.

[HerbalEd]

On 12/30/2018 at 6:57 PM, marcusarelus said:

Hospitals are friendly and I understand many patients share beds.  Most of the tests are sent to Singapore to be processed I believe.  I would not want to get sick in Vietnam. 

This is not true. Do you often just make up your own "facts"?

[tideout]

Just now, HerbalEd said:

This is not true. Do you often just make up your own "facts"?

I've posted similar information. I don't know about sharing beds but I've got the sending of tests to Singapore or Bangkok from a local doctor as well as two friends who've recently had trouble getting direction on test results. Several other friends have had to go back home after surgery for more accurate or complete work. 

 

[MyFriend You]

On 12/30/2018 at 8:11 PM, Jingthing said:

People say the visa situation is better but I've yet to be convinced on that. There is no actual retirement visa, so you need to play games, right? Also I would predict that eventually if they have an actual retirement visa it will higher financial level than Thailand because Vietnam is becoming a more successful nation than Thailand. 

There are several categories of Visa's for Vietnam  (all tourist visas's require you to leave country every 90 days, and all can be extended)

• 3 month Tourist  single or multi
• 6 month tourist  single or multi
• one year tourist multi  -  I got mine in November, just spent 2 months there and am going back in 3 weeks.
• You can get a Business Visa almost just for the asking (I am told, I am not interested)
• I know people married to Vietnamese that have 3, 5, 10 year visas, and a few that have residency cards............don't know the specifics.  
• Drivers licenses are easy as pie to get - use an agent.  Bank accounts are opened easily on tourist visas as well - I use Sacom Bank, one of the oldest banks in Vietnam, my lady uses VietinBank which is the oldest bank in Vietnam.
• Same as Thailand, a foreigner can buy Condo's freehold, and now can buy Property - "buy" means can own it for fifty years, you can buy the land and build a house on it , you can transfer it to a family member, but they are still stuck with the 50 year rule. then it must be turned over to ?????  This is a very new law that came in effect 2 years ago, I know no one that has been able to 'buy' property.  My name appears in the House Registration as "Management Officer"  no one can sell it without my approval.

There are major changes coming up this year, Vietnam has started becoming safehaven for Bad Guys, and they are getting stricter.  but there is rumor that a "Retirement Visa" in is the works.

Quite easy getting a visa in Bangkok Vietnamese Embassy, usually in 1 or 2 days. not open Sat or Sunday.

and, and, and, all you guys going to Vung Tau????  Might as well stay in Pattaya, I hated that place, not Vietnamese at all, rips offs, filthy water, beaches are oil soaked from al the oil spills past years..........you don't notice it right away as they have trucked in tons tons tons of sand from other beaches to cover up the oil, but every once in a while??  it comes to the surface.

I only visit HCMC as I live in the Delta region.

I like Nha Trang (Kanh Hoa) They Hoa, Mui Ne, Hoi Anh, Danang  and of course my homestead in the Mekong Delta, but thats another subject all together.     Peace and Happy Holidays

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, Berkshire said:

I can just imagine some old geezer living in Vietnam and complaining about it on some forum (like TV) and being hauled to jail for being "anti-government."  He'll try to claim Freedom of Speech and be laughed at all the way to the big house.

Is anywhere in SE Asia different?

Try posting something anti-Muslim, anti-Jewish or anti-women in the UK and claiming 'freedom of speech', you'll be in jail just as quick.

 

Freedom of speech is just an imaginary right that some white men think they have!

 

These days it's best to learn what you can say and in what country you can say it, before flapping your lips or pounding your keyboard.

[MyFriend You]

1 hour ago, tideout said:

I've posted similar information. I don't know about sharing beds but I've got the sending of tests to Singapore or Bangkok from a local doctor as well as two friends who've recently had trouble getting direction on test results. Several other friends have had to go back home after surgery for more accurate or complete work. 

 

My Daughter is a Nurse in Saigon, this may have been true a few years ago, but the Medical Sector has greatly improved over the years, sending tests to Singapore???  maybe 10 years ago, they have fully functioning hospitals in all  major cities - now biopsy's for cancer tissue - I had polyps removed from my larynx in Nov - Bangkok Bumrungrad had to send the sample to Singapore for testing - so its not uncommon in any country to send sample out.  

[SiamAndy]

6 minutes ago, TunnelRat69 said:

There are several categories of Visa's for Vietnam  (all tourist visas's require you to leave country every 90 days, and all can be extended)

• 3 month Tourist  single or multi
• 6 month tourist  single or multi
• one year tourist multi  -  I got mine in November, just spent 2 months there and am going back in 3 weeks.
• You can get a Business Visa almost just for the asking (I am told, I am not interested)
• I know people married to Vietnamese that have 3, 5, 10 year visas, and a few that have residency cards............don't know the specifics.  
• Drivers licenses are easy as pie to get - use an agent.  Bank accounts are opened easily on tourist visas as well - I use Sacom Bank, one of the oldest banks in Vietnam, my lady uses VietinBank which is the oldest bank in Vietnam.
• Same as Thailand, a foreigner can buy Condo's freehold, and now can buy Property - "buy" means can own it for fifty years, you can buy the land and build a house on it , you can transfer it to a family member, but they are still stuck with the 50 year rule. then it must be turned over to ?????  This is a very new law that came in effect 2 years ago, I know no one that has been able to 'buy' property.  My name appears in the House Registration as "Management Officer"  no one can sell it without my approval.

There are major changes coming up this year, Vietnam has started becoming safehaven for Bad Guys, and they are getting stricter.  but there is rumor that a "Retirement Visa" in is the works.

Quite easy getting a visa in Bangkok Vietnamese Embassy, usually in 1 or 2 days. not open Sat or Sunday.

and, and, and, all you guys going to Vung Tau????  Might as well stay in Pattaya, I hated that place, not Vietnamese at all, rips offs, filthy water, beaches are oil soaked from al the oil spills past years..........you don't notice it right away as they have trucked in tons tons tons of sand from other beaches to cover up the oil, but every once in a while??  it comes to the surface.

I only visit HCMC as I live in the Delta region.

I like Nha Trang (Kanh Hoa) They Hoa, Mui Ne, Hoi Anh, Danang  and of course my homestead in the Mekong Delta, but thats another subject all together.     Peace and Happy Holidays

Thanks, great information! Is it easy to buy and register a motorbike? Is the motorcycle insurance similar to the compulsory insurance in Thailand?

[tideout]

Just now, SiamAndy said:

Thanks, great information! Is it easy to buy and register a motorbike? Is the motorcycle insurance similar to the compulsory insurance in Thailand?

I think the majority of foreigners here rent and then buy used motorbikes. You always want to get the blue card when you buy a used bike so you can show it's not stolen. Most insurance companies will not cover you without a license. While it's "easy" to get a license, there's a fair amount of BS'ing in this area - agents who'll get you a license but it's not in the Police database etc.. Most foreigners I know who buy a new bike from a dealership, have it in a Vietnamese friends name. There are groups in Facebook that cover this in more detail and more to date.

[SiamAndy]

Thanks! With the USD continuing to fall in value vs the Baht, and as yet unknown changes in TL retirement visa policy, Vietnam is beginning to look like a viable option. Oh, and the Dollar is doing well vs the Dong.

[MyFriend You]

1 minute ago, SiamAndy said:

Thanks, great information! Is it easy to buy and register a motorbike? Is the motorcycle insurance similar to the compulsory insurance in Thailand?

Yes it is, but you have to have a Vietnamese Licnse for Motorcycles.  I just bought my lady a new motorcycle and it took a month to get the registration, you can't legally ride it until you get the registration and plates - some dealers have loaners (at a cost) they will let you rent while you are waiting for paperwork.  Like Thailand, there are Motorcycle rentals everywhere, fairly cheap.  But you can't legally drive a car without a Vietnamese Drivers license - Its catch 22 - tourists can;t get a Viet License, you have to rent a car with a driver $30-100 a day depending on the size of the car.............I just rented a Ford 9 Pax Sprinter Van and a driver, family of seven we went all over the Mekong Delta for 5 days, $300. Insurance is easily obtained, but not sure if it is compulsory to have it to register the bike, not like Thailand  where you get both at the same time.   You would be insane to ride a motorcycle here without insurance.............old folks have no problem getting health insurance either.

[MyFriend You]

On 12/31/2018 at 2:05 PM, Brunolem said:

How does that compare with Cambodia, which also offers high rates, yet not that high these days? 

I would't put $10 in a Cambodian Bank  -  they are rampant money launderers.  but have been putting a lot of money in Vietnamese banks for over 15 years, interest rates are 7.8% at this time, about five years ago I was getting 14%.  Reckon Have made well over $50K US in interest (1.4 Billion Dong).  perfectly safe with the Major Banks - Sacom Bank, VietinBank, VietComBank, but be careful, there are a bunch of Chinese banks popping up now, wouldn't out a nickle in any of those.   Peace