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1 hour ago, joe999 said:

Have been doing bread with bread makers for many years, as I can recall my bread only collapsed twice, consecutive batches, reason being bad yeast.

I always use dry yeast that comes in small glass bottles.

I buy yeast in 500g packets from Makro for about 100B. I split the 500g into two equal small Tupperware containers. I freeze one and keep the other in the fridge, using as needed. Then when the first is used up I get the frozen one out and use it from the fridge in the same way.

I have never had a yeast problem and the last spoonful works as well as the first. Maybe I've just been lucky.

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19 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Breadmakers have thermostats, it's always the right temperature for rising.

Falling is nearly always too much water.

If the OP did a test bake using only white bread flour, water, yeast and salt then he would find out pretty quickly whether there is a thermostat fault or not, and also whether his basic recipe is sound.

Having done that test successfully he can move on to varying the recipe and adding "extras", ideally in stages with in-between tests.

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21 hours ago, steve73 said:

If it rises OK then the yeast is working OK.

 

Causes of collapse are usually:

1.  Insufficient gluten in the flour, so the dough looses elasticity as it starts to cook.  Use a proper strong "Bread" flour (or perhaps a gluten additive).  Too much wholemeal flour (that has low gluten) may also give problem... max 25%.

 

2. Alternatively, too much water makes the dough too soft, and again it will collapse as it starts to cook.  I found the standard recipes that came with my breadmaker had 10-20% too much water... try cutting back a little and see if it help.

 

3.  If it's much too warm during the "proving" (rising) stage it can rise too fast & too much, then I've noticed it will often collapse during cooking.  Breadmakers usually have to warm it a little at this stage; ideally around 25C, but often it's a little too warm in T/L.  Perhaps add a little more sugar to give the yeast extra "food".

 

I think you are right there in OP's case at point 3. Ambient temperature in Thailand is way to high to use lukewarm water. Technically the dough should be around 25 C after kneading. 

Considering the warming up during kneading you'd have to use really cold water in the recipe.

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21 hours ago, KittenKong said:

That should not be needed. They are correct that in a machine you should put the salt away from the dry yeast, as if the two touch the yeast may die. Once mixed it isnt an issue.

Correct!   Adding ingredients into bread maker should be:

First the yeast

Then the flour

Then the sugar, oil, salt and water.

 

Keep opened yeast packs tightly sealed in refrigerator, don't buy the large packs of yeast. (Look at sell by date, it can easily go off)

 

1/2 teaspoonful of sugar is not enough, especially for a 500gm loaf

I would suggest : one teaspoonful of yeast, same amount for salt and sugar.  Only a small amount of oil, 2-3 tablespoonfuls.

And 300 - 325 mls of water.

 

Works perfectly every time!

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Make sure you use bottled room temp water . I made bread before in the Uk in breadmakers and wondered why it wouldn't rise at times. Was told was the water I was using from tap so I used bottled water and problem solved.

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Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

If the OP did a test bake using only white bread flour, water, yeast and salt then he would find out pretty quickly whether there is a thermostat fault or not, and also whether his basic recipe is sound.

Having done that test successfully he can move on to varying the recipe and adding "extras", ideally in stages with in-between tests.

The recipes that come with breadmakers are always too wet and tend to fall.

Don't know why, maybe they use a different flour to everyone else.

And they always want you to use milk and eggs, who puts milk and eggs in their bread?

Edited by BritManToo

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21 minutes ago, hugocnx said:

I think you are right there in OP's case at point 3. Ambient temperature in Thailand is way to high to use lukewarm water. Technically the dough should be around 25 C after kneading. 

Considering the warming up during kneading you'd have to use really cold water in the recipe.

I always heat up the water I use in the microwave for 15 seconds before adding the yeast. It has never been a problem.

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Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, sharktooth said:

I bought the HomeMate bread maker from Lazada for 5,950. I think Yok wanted 6,900 for it.

Verasu want 4,300 for the same machine.

https://www.verasu.com/product-detail/130/เครื่องทำขนมปังอัตโนมัติ

I looked at that one too, really they all are much of a muchness.

If my 2,000bht machine didn't break so often I would have stuck with it.

Edited by BritManToo

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40 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I buy yeast in 500g packets from Makro for about 100B. I split the 500g into two equal small Tupperware containers. I freeze one and keep the other in the fridge, using as needed. Then when the first is used up I get the frozen one out and use it from the fridge in the same way.

I have never had a yeast problem and the last spoonful works as well as the first. Maybe I've just been lucky.

Metoo, but Fermipan red from YoK in 500gm packets.

I just leave mine in an airtight plastic container, no need to freeze or refrigerate, it just needs to be kept dry.

125-150 loaves from 1 pack.

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4 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

The recipes that come with breadmakers are always too wet and tend to fall.

Don't know why, maybe they use a different flour to everyone else.

And they always want you to use milk and eggs, who puts milk and eggs in their bread?

I had a breadmaker in Europe and the recipes that came with that all worked and didnt have too much water in. They didnt have milk and eggs in either.

 

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3 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

I always heat up the water I use in the microwave for 15 seconds before adding the yeast. It has never been a problem.

You have a different style of bread making as you wrote in your first post.

No kneading of the dough and a high percentage of dry yeast. So along with warm water I think that's the reason your dough rises well.

But OP is kneading the dough and it might over rise and collapse.

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5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Metoo, but Fermipan red from YoK in 500gm packets.

I just leave mine in an airtight plastic container, no need to freeze or refrigerate, it just needs to be kept dry.

125-150 loaves from 1 pack.

Fermipan red is actually meant for (extra) sweet bread recipe like raisin bread. Sounds strange, but standard yeast cannot handle to much sugar. This according to Fermipan Co.

I don't know if the blue Fermipan is cheaper, but it works even as good.

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1 minute ago, hugocnx said:

You have a different style of bread making as you wrote in your first post.

No kneading of the dough and a high percentage of dry yeast. So along with warm water I think that's the reason your dough rises well.

But OP is kneading the dough and it might over rise and collapse.

That's possible, though the amount of yeast I use was taken from a regular recipe that called for 20 minutes kneading.

Using warm water just seems to speed it all up a little bit, but putting the bowl outside in the sun for the rising stage has the same effect. I do normally leave the dough indoors for the rising stages, where the temperature is a constant 27 degrees.

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, KittenKong said:

That's possible, though the amount of yeast I use was taken from a regular recipe that called for 20 minutes kneading.

Using warm water just seems to speed it all up a little bit, but putting the bowl outside in the sun for the rising stage has the same effect. I do normally leave the dough indoors for the rising stages, where the temperature is a constant 27 degrees.

Is that 20 minutes hand kneading or machine kneading? Check out the website of weekend bakery; loads of good info. Yeast percentage (of flour of course) is generally about 1.5%. Yours is 2.5%. What are we talking about.

If allowed https://www.weekendbakery.com/. Not personally connected.

Edited by hugocnx

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, hugocnx said:

Is that 20 minutes hand kneading or machine kneading? Check out the website of weekend bakery; loads of good info. Yeast percentage (of flour of course) is generally about 1.5%. Yours is 2.5%. What are we talking about.

If allowed https://www.weekendbakery.com/. Not personally connected.

It's completely different rules for hand baking and machine baking.

The machine controls temperature and humidity and forces a 'quick rise', kneading is far stronger, it's really designed for white bread flour only.

OP is using a machine, all advice & recipes from hand bakers are totally irrelevant. 

Edited by BritManToo

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