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Trump holds firm on border wall, offers steel option as compromise


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5 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Actually the NRA is a small player in terms of the money it spends in politics. Big Pharma and Big Business spend far more. The US Chamber of Commerce spends more than $80 million a year on lobbying, the NRA around $5 million

Incorrect.

The article concludes that the seemingly small amount spent on lobbying represents only about 1.7 percent of the total money the NRA spends on politics.

 

Quote

Counting up how much the NRA spends on campaigns and lobbying

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/oct/11/counting-up-how-much-nra-spends/

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53 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Incorrect.

The article concludes that the seemingly small amount spent on lobbying represents only about 1.7 percent of the total money the NRA spends on politics.

 

https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2017/oct/11/counting-up-how-much-nra-spends/

Not at all. The Politifact article identifies a total 0f $203 million spent by the NRA SINCE 1998. In other words, over 20 years. That means an average of about $10 million per year, including the $5 million in direct lobbying I mentioned, plus all other forms of contribution. Still a paltry amount compared to other organizations and pressure groups. Meanwhile, according to OpenSecrets, the pharmaceutical industry spent more than $200 million on lobbying alone, plus another $25 million in direct donations to candidates in the 2018 election. Big Labor spent $150 million,and the finance sector 'won' with more than $800 million spent in just one year.

 

To reiterate, the NRA is a minnow.

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Money aside, Pelosi has also called the wall "immoral" meaning she'd still oppose it even if she had the money.  Secondly, the public is against the building of a border wall by a 2-to-1 margin.  In light of this, the House is doing the right thing and listening to the voice of the majority.

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34 minutes ago, attrayant said:

Money aside, Pelosi has also called the wall "immoral" meaning she'd still oppose it even if she had the money.  Secondly, the public is against the building of a border wall by a 2-to-1 margin.  In light of this, the House is doing the right thing and listening to the voice of the majority.

Yes.

While it is true that somehow "trump" was elected by a minority of voters in 2016 with the wall as a big part of his sales pitch, we just had a recent national election (the house) that sent a clear message that the people want "trump" to be checked. That is happening. "trump" will not get his great ego wall of "trump" because the people do not want it. 

"trump" threatens to declare a fake national state of emergency to build his wall anyway. Easier said than done but if he even tries that it will expose even more that we have a thoroughly destructive man in the white house. There is no emergency. Such capabilities are only for REAL emergencies.

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10 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Trump will be getting his Wall whether it concrete or steel spikes. Majority of the US is sick and tired of the crime the illegal aliens are inflicting on the country. 

There is more chance of you posting something sincere and sensible than there is of Trump getting his wall.

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9 hours ago, zydeco said:

He will cave. Just like he has already done on just about every issue.

*Caved on DACA

*Caved on China currency manipulation

*Caved on Nafta

*Caved on withdrawing troops from Middle East (apparently caving twice on that one, as he's walking back from the latest promise to leave Syria, too)

*Caved on Guatemalan Caravan

*Caved on North Korea

*Cav(ing) on tariffs

*Cav(ing) on China

 

He will soon be turning the "Wall" into a Welcome Mat and proclaiming that was his 3D Chess strategy all along.

 

The man only cares about the stock market and nothing else.

All mouth.

The bizarre thing is that he will explain that he never actually intended to build a wall , it was media fake news , and his moron army will believe him lol.

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The bizarre thing is that he will explain that he never actually intended to build a wall , it was media fake news , and his moron army will believe him lol.

I don't think he will do that exactly but I think this is about him still being able to rile up his MAWA hat fans at his perverted white nationalist rallies. Really about still be able to face that crowd at all. I think the end game is probably going with the national emergency gambit and even if that doesn't really work he can claim he was willing to basically trash the nation for his holy wall cause and the his marks will still be with him. He'll also claim the wall is built when it isn't. Facts don't matter in his bubble.  

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20 hours ago, bendejo said:

 

Never thought about this way until reading your post just now, but yeah, what are rednecks and farmers going to care about someone in NYC getting shot?  Now, if on a trip to, let's say Iowa, he shoots somebody at a county fair, and it's, you know, somebody's son or daughter....

 

 

Nonsense

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Soooo let me see Donald wants to build a 2000 mile long steel wall at our expense mind you as a mariner and a practical kind of guy who Donald is going to keep it from rusting does that clown have the slightest idea of how expensive it would be to maintain it?talk about hair brained 

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Politics aside, I am honestly amazed at the juvenile tone and insults so casually thrown about by 'mature' people discussing serious issues. As with so many things these days, it may feel good to vent and rant, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Referring to the duly elected chief executive as clown, moron, racist, etc does nothing to advance the conversation. Do you seriously think that this is the best way to persuade others of the strength of your argument? 

 

As to building a wall, it will NOT bankrupt the government in the slightest.  Cost estimates are in the $20-25 billion dollar range.  Given that the national federal budget is in the $4 TRILLION range, this is not much.  Particularly when the cost is spread over a number of years.  So talk of the financial burden is frankly nonsense.

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12 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Politics aside, I am honestly amazed at the juvenile tone and insults so casually thrown about by 'mature' people discussing serious issues. As with so many things these days, it may feel good to vent and rant, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Referring to the duly elected chief executive as clown, moron, racist, etc does nothing to advance the conversation. Do you seriously think that this is the best way to persuade others of the strength of your argument? 

 

As to building a wall, it will NOT bankrupt the government in the slightest.  Cost estimates are in the $20-25 billion dollar range.  Given that the national federal budget is in the $4 TRILLION range, this is not much.  Particularly when the cost is spread over a number of years.  So talk of the financial burden is frankly nonsense.

Oh, this is rich on so many levels!

Whereas name- calling is not bringing the argument one step forward: Trump is still a clown, a moron, a racist and so much more!

 

But to your second point:

25 BILLION dollars, may not ruin the government, but it could be put to so much better use, as there is not ONE SINGLE argument, why this wall should be useful. 

But there are many, MANY against it!

Just because you CAN do something, does not mean you should do it!

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Ignoring the childish remarks...

 

Other methods of securing the border have been tried- increasing the staff of the border patrol, etc. None seem to work, as the presence of 20 million plus illegal immigrants demonstrates.  However, the presence of a wall in the Tijuana area seems to be working. How many of the "migrant caravan" people were prevented from crossing by the wall in combination with Border Patrol pesonnel?

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23 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Politics aside, I am honestly amazed at the juvenile tone and insults so casually thrown about by 'mature' people discussing serious issues. As with so many things these days, it may feel good to vent and rant, but it sets a dangerous precedent. Referring to the duly elected chief executive as clown, moron, racist, etc does nothing to advance the conversation. Do you seriously think that this is the best way to persuade others of the strength of your argument? 

 

As to building a wall, it will NOT bankrupt the government in the slightest.  Cost estimates are in the $20-25 billion dollar range.  Given that the national federal budget is in the $4 TRILLION range, this is not much.  Particularly when the cost is spread over a number of years.  So talk of the financial burden is frankly nonsense.

How do you feel about the the consistently juvenile tone of Trump's speech and tweets?

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Mr hanaguma with all due respect when that (person)inhabiting the White House stops the rampant lies stops dividing the nation stops destabilizing the world order stops attacking well respected institutions stops attacking children maybe I will tone it down a bit maybe 

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Mr hanaguma with all due respect when that (person)inhabiting the White House stops the rampant lies stops dividing the nation stops destabilizing the world order stops attacking well respected institutions stops attacking children maybe I will tone it down a bit maybe 
In other words never. He just gets worse. He will never get better. Some silly optimists thought he would change for the better when facing the awesome responsibility of the presidency. They were wrong. Bloomberg was spot on when he said if "trump" runs the presidency like he runs his business God help us.

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1 hour ago, bristolboy said:

How do you feel about the the consistently juvenile tone of Trump's speech and tweets?

It could use work.  He talks like what he is, a builder from New York.  Part BS, part puffery, part brutal honesty, part master salesman.  Still, that has no bearing on how you or I conduct ourselves.  "He did it, so I can too" isn't an excuse I would accept from my child, so I find it hard to accept from an adult.

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1 hour ago, Tug said:

Mr hanaguma with all due respect when that (person)inhabiting the White House stops the rampant lies stops dividing the nation stops destabilizing the world order stops attacking well respected institutions stops attacking children maybe I will tone it down a bit maybe 

See above.  Pointing a finger and saying "I'll stop when he does" is a childish response that smacks of whataboutism.  You can regulate your own behavior without regard to others. Particular the non punctuated hysteria.

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20 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

It could use work.  He talks like what he is, a builder from New York.  Part BS, part puffery, part brutal honesty, part master salesman.  Still, that has no bearing on how you or I conduct ourselves.  "He did it, so I can too" isn't an excuse I would accept from my child, so I find it hard to accept from an adult.

Brutal honesty? Where?

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2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Brutal honesty? Where?

Trump on prison reform;

“We’re all better off when former inmates can re-enter society as law-abiding, productive citizens. Americans from across the political spectrum can unite around prison reform legislation that will reduce crime while giving our fellow citizens a chance at redemption.”

 

Good enough example?

 

Can we move on from the innumerable variations of "orange man bad" now? They are repetitive, and worse, unfunny. At least come up with some original material, people!

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Brutal honesty? Where?
Exactly. Brutal lying more like. His main skill is being a con man. It's like his fans more like patsy marks took one of the most disgusting persons in the country and made him president. It's going to take decades to repair the damage he's causing.

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See above.  Pointing a finger and saying "I'll stop when he does" is a childish response that smacks of whataboutism.  You can regulate your own behavior without regard to others. Particular the non punctuated hysteria.
This is ridiculous. He's president. The internet posting behavior of citizens is not the issue here. To suggest that it is is mere cynical distraction.

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6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

This is ridiculous. He's president. The internet posting behavior of citizens is not the issue here. To suggest that it is is mere cynical distraction.

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Not a distraction at all.  If people can't have a relatively mature conversation without sounding like pouty children then maybe they should step away from the keyboard for a while.  If I want to read that kind of puerile nonsense, I can read the Huffington Post.  

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Not a distraction at all.  If people can't have a relatively mature conversation without sounding like pouty children then maybe they should step away from the keyboard for a while.  If I want to read that kind of puerile nonsense, I can read the Huffington Post.  
My opinion is you're promoting an irrelevant distraction that has nothing to do with the topic. If you don't approve of some members style of posting may I suggest just putting them on ignore instead of continuing with the tedious preaching act.

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17 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Trump on prison reform;

“We’re all better off when former inmates can re-enter society as law-abiding, productive citizens

Says the pres who pardoned Joe Arpaio. 

 

Actions speak louder than words. Honesty my behind.

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2 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

Ignoring the childish remarks...

 

Other methods of securing the border have been tried- increasing the staff of the border patrol, etc. None seem to work, as the presence of 20 million plus illegal immigrants demonstrates.  However, the presence of a wall in the Tijuana area seems to be working. How many of the "migrant caravan" people were prevented from crossing by the wall in combination with Border Patrol pesonnel?

Ignoring, you still don't get it, let me tell you again: most of all the illegal immigrants come in legally and overstay their visa! How will A WALL change that?

Just one of the many points, that shows, the wall is complete, utter and total BS!

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Trump on prison reform;
“We’re all better off when former inmates can re-enter society as law-abiding, productive citizens. Americans from across the political spectrum can unite around prison reform legislation that will reduce crime while giving our fellow citizens a chance at redemption.”
 
Good enough example?
 
Can we move on from the innumerable variations of "orange man bad" now? They are repetitive, and worse, unfunny. At least come up with some original material, people!
The orange man is bad. How's that for brutal honesty? Acting like a criminally corrupt con man is a normal president that belongs in that office is not something that passes the smell test.

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