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alexanderhu

Thai Elite visa tax issues

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11 hours ago, alexanderhu said:

However, in practice this is not really possible. I talked with numerous tax advisors and accountants and the answer was that a Thai Elite member cannot become a tax resident and is not able to obtain a tax id because he or she cannot be employed in the country, cannot open and manage a business and so on. I decided to contact the tax authorities directly and guess what, they can't say for sure that either.

Not correct.. Go along, say you have investment income not earned income.. and Voila TTN dispensed. 

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39 minutes ago, Misty said:

The question becomes: does Thailand consider day-trading to be work (as the OP notes, Hong Kong and Singapore do), and as such it is Thai-source income and taxable, or does Thailand consider day-trading to be passive investment income like dividends and interest?  Perhaps some of the cross border tax professionals can weigh in on that.  

Thailand considers capital gains from stock trades (presumably also shorts) to be investment / passive income and not active earned income. Part of why they never charged those Chinese stock traders. 

However no one has ever to my knowledge clarified the line in the sane where passive might become active (trader per day, system operation, etc etc) clear full time stock trading feels like work, however legally on the record they have repeatedly stated it is not work / earned income. 

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the OP is a wum and elite visa gets these every month these wum threads. The OP knows full well that if you want to work in Thailand then you have to change from an elite visa to a work permit. This thread is another way to attack living visas like marriage/retirement/elite hoping the authorities will see and intervene in the future on such issues. Its pretty obvious the OP is from the chinese state probably hoping the authorities will take notice and charge tax statements to these kind of visas. Especially now with so many more chinese living and buying property

Edited by humbug
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Your post doesn't make any sense.

 

Many people on elite visa don't need to work in thailand but still pay taxes on remitted income into thailand, dividend payouts in thai companies they have invested in, real estate investments etc.

 

 

Ops question is totally valid, his only problem is that whoever he talked to was incompetent.

 

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Your post doesn't make any sense.

 

Many people on elite visa don't need to work in thailand but still pay taxes on remitted income into thailand, dividend payouts in thai companies they have invested in, real estate investments etc.

 

 

Ops question is totally valid, his only problem is that whoever he talked to was incompetent.

 

Sent from my LYA-L29 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

no its not the point. The op really is a wum, what he is highlighting is to work full time on his income whatever that is and use thailand as a base and use the thai tax structure to satisfy his passport countrys tax man.

That means he requires a work permit not a living visa such elite/retirement/marriage. That is why if you have an elite and wish to work they can help you change the visa to a work permit. I am sure people have changed to a work permit after starting a business or other work etc.

 

The op is fully aware of the need of a work permit.

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In my opinion it's not that simple. So let's take a closer look on the issue in practice. The applicant tells the tax authorities that he or she is going to become a non resident on this and that date. I don't know how it is where you are from but here in the EU usually when you file the paperwork to become a non resident for tax purposes, then you have to file a final tax return and pay your taxes by the date you file your last and final return. Then the applicant moves to Thailand with the Thai Elite visa, rents a flat in Bangkok and then comes the problems. He or she is no longer a resident in her or her former EU country, doesn't have a tax id, doesn't have a proof of address. The latter can be solved with the tenancy agreement and a utility bill which the person hopefully can get in a month or so. Some said that I should keep asking the Thai tax authorities for a tax id and tell them to issue one for me because I have to declare interest income on my local bank account. This may work, I'll give it a try. Then I have a tax id but I'm still not sure if my trading income is considered as a foreign sourced income or as a locally sourced active business/trading income. As far as I know, there is a difference between trading on the stock market and trading with currencies or derivatives because some jurisdiction says that if you're trading on the stock market then you buy or sell and actual asset and they may categorize such positions as foreign sourced income, however when it comes to the currency market, options, futures and so on, then the situation is less clear because the trader doesn't buy or sell any assets but more like bets on the outcome of the particular price movement with a financial instrument. For instance here the ESMA, the European equivalent of the SEC, categorizes FX (currency) trading positions as CFD (contract for difference) positions, or in other words their view is that the currency trader doesn't own or hold any particular assets during the trade. If the Thai tax authority would take a similar view on the issue, then in my opinion any trading income that doesn't involve equities may be categorized as locally sourced and thus subject to personal income tax the regular way.

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this thread is misnamed and should not have a visa which is not a permanent resident or work permit attached. Many times we see threads vanish when fools say how do i work on visa on arrival without anyone knowing blah blah This is another blatant attempt to wum. The op seems to want to trash this visa when all he had to do is set up a company in thailand then gain a work permit and pay his taxes. He knows this its just a complete wum. 

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16 minutes ago, humbug said:

all he had to do is set up a company in thailand then gain a work permit and pay his taxes.

So open a business (at considerable expense), put up capital which serves no purpose, and hire 4 Thais to ... watch him trade stocks?   This is not an activity which takes a Thai's job.  Thailand should take his tax-money and be delighted he pays tax and spends his income here.

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Also, don't forget those entrepreneurs who decided to live in Thailand full time and has a company in a foreign jurisdiction. Their company if controlled and managed by the only director who lives in Thailand would be unquestionably a Thai resident company and at the very least would have to register permanent establishment but these things are not simple to say the least and may not even be possible.


Afaik Thailand does not have CFC laws. As long as the company does not do business in Thailand or with Thai clients the foreign company does not need a permanent establishment.

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My understanding is that capital gains from stock trading abroad 

are classified as worldwide income under Thai tax law.

just read through Deloitte and other consultancies'

country tax guidance, it's freely available online.

 

however, from the discussions I have had here it seems

the taxman does not collect it, the people on retirement 

Visa here told me Thai IRS never asked them to file a return.

 

so it seems nobody cares, just like in other less developed countries.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Krupps

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7 hours ago, humbug said:

the OP is a wum

A wum ? What is a wum ?

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