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alexanderhu

Thai Elite visa tax issues

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9 minutes ago, alexanderhu said:

my bank and brokerage accounts are located in the EU not in the US

So the problem is that your current banks and brokers require a new tax ID? That's easy to solve. Switch to better banks and brokers. You can easily open accounts in the US as an EU citizen who is a TH resident. I bet you'll be saving a fortune in fees as well.

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Yes, all my banks and brokers are asking for my new tax id. I do not want to open an account in the US for multiple reasons, two of them are the lack of currency accounts which is an issue since I trade, deal and transact in Euros only and US brokers offers far less products and markets outside the US to trade on. Yes, there is one exception, IB but there are other options in the EU and when it comes to banks. Thanks, but I do not want to deal with US banks. They work like if we'd still be in the 90s. Going to a branch to open an account? What for? A non EU citizen, non EU resident person can open a fee-free EUR current account over the internet, all he or she  needs is a webcam. Plus EUR transactions takes an hour on average compared to the 1-3 days with USD and some banks in the EU offer unlimited fee-free transactions.

 

So tax id is one problem, I'll try to solve it as soon as I can, I'll try the interest income tactic that someone here said and the other issue is whether my trading income is taxable or not.

Edited by alexanderhu

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1 hour ago, alexanderhu said:

BertM, Ks45672: I would like to stay legal and fully compliant. Indeed, I can't use my former tax id since I'm no longer a tax resident and I need a local one from Thailand. However, it has nothing to do with not paying taxes. In fact, I'm the one wanting to pay if I have to pay and truth to be told it's still not clear to me whether my trading income is taxable in Thailand or not. In other words, I cut all my ties with my country of citizenship not for tax reasons but for monetary reasons, i.e. I did not want to maintain a home in my home country considering I ain't gonna go back there anytime soon so I simply told the tax man that I leave permanently, I ticked the right boxes, paid the taxes on my final tax return and I left. Now I'm gonna need a tax id in Thailand because I assume that my trading income is fully taxable in Thailand for two reasons: 1) I trade actively, on a daily basis, and these are speculative short term positions; 2) I trade derivatives only so I do not own any assets when I'm in a position. Consequently based on the Thai income tax act that I found online on the tax authority's website, I believe that my trading activities would be categorized as doing business in Thailand and thus subject to income tax like any other locally sourced income.

 

Again, I'm not a US but an EU citizen and my bank and brokerage accounts are located in the EU not in the US.

I have friends in similar situations, some trade stocks , forex, cryptocurrency,  oil and gas etc  for many years and they don't pay tax to the uk/eu or to thailand either and they just abide by the "wait 1 year rule" 

 

I don't think there is a specific law  for trading derivatives but pressing the buttons on your laptop to manage your own overseas financial assets wouldn't be something i would worry about personally 

 

If they don't ask you for tax and don't want to give you a tax id despite asking then what can you do about it anyway? Except enjoy the money... 😀 

 

 

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I see, that's good news and really useful information, thank you Ks45672! Are you sure they trade not just stocks but derivative products, fx and cryptocurrencies as well? Haha, yeah, if that's the case then indeed it sounds really good. 😎

Edited by alexanderhu

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lkv: I already explained that Thailand is a part of the AEOI. They joined it about a year ago but indeed the first packet of information has not yet been sent but they're going to send it this year or the next year.  Furthermore, are you positive that trading income from derivatives is considered as foreign income in Thailand?

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10 minutes ago, alexanderhu said:

lkv: I already explained that Thailand is a part of the AEOI. They joined it about a year ago but indeed the first packet of information has not yet been sent but they're going to send it this year or the next year.  

 

 

Screenshot_20190108-223744_Adobe Acrobat.jpg

Edited by lkv
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In fact, I'm the one wanting to pay if I have to pay and truth to be told it's still not clear to me whether my trading income is taxable in Thailand or not
 According to the reputable international tax consultant KPMG you dont have to pay tax on income as a thai tax resident if this income is foreign sourced and not transferred to TH the same year it is received  https://home.kpmg/xx/en/home/insights/2014/04/thailand-thinking-beyond-borders.html

 

Here some info from Deloitte

 

https://www.google.de/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www2.deloitte.com/content/dam/Deloitte/global/Documents/Tax/dttl-tax-thailandhighlights-2018.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjbj_Tjk9_fAhUFzIUKHRxRApIQFjABegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw115Ldx1gzWYoBdobSDkBj5

 

 

 20190108_225004mwiv6.jpg&key=059701ae37be393a92fbbdca0b480753db4874fe64d6e692a310ab09001d1d69

 

 

 

 

So why pay tax if you can avoid so easy just by transferring your earnings the next year to TH in case you need the money?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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lkv: Well, they're part of the AEOI or under the process of becoming a member, almost the same. Sooner or later but they're going to exchange that information. Yes, that makes sense, thank you! I have asked so many people about the tax treatment of trading income and most people just say that it's not taxable but when I tell them it may be locally sourced since it is considered to be locally sourced in SG or HK then they go quite and doesn't seem to know the answer because I don't trade stocks but currencies and I have triple digits positions in a month so we are definitely not talking about investments here. Your point makes sense but you know if I don't pay any tax but one day if they get information within the AEOI framework and decide to investigate my tax matters because I have X balance and I pay zero tax in Thailand, then I would be in a really hot mess.

 

Crisu: I know, I read those and talked with many tax advisors (not KPMG though) but the question is not whether foreign sourced income is taxable on the remittance basis or not but whether trading income itself is foreign sourced if let's say the taxpayer is trading on the currency market with a foreign brokerage account or it's locally sourced because the trades were placed from Thailand.

Edited by alexanderhu

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6 hours ago, stat said:

the aeoi does not demand a tax id from countries that does not automatically distribute them i.e. Thailand. If you tell the bank this they will not ask anymore for a tax id. Worked for me with several german banks.

Well my UK bank just asked me again a year later. 

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or it's locally sourced because the trades were placed from Thailand.

 

You can make easy story very complicated.

 

Has nothing to do where you placed yor orders.

They mean income interest on foreign bank accounts or capital gains, rental income, dividends from foreign company ect.

 

What if you place one of your orders during your holiday trip to Vietnam or in the plane by internet (i did it)? According to your tax logic this would then be foreign source and you would have to proove it to not be taxable in TH then.

Thats complete insane.

 

But anyway good luck with your research or your fear regaring AEOI and TH.

 

 

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