Record-Breaking Number Of Americans Want To Get Out Of U.S. Forever

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

29 minutes ago, Lacessit said:

Quite sad how even the microcosm of TV displays the total polarisation of Americans.

 Polarization, I guess, if you call Trump's 30+% approval ratings polarized.

 

It's a minority faction of the U.S. population that believes in a guy who managed to scam his way into the White House, very likely with illegal support from Putin and Russia, and has managed since his arrival to do nothing but divide Americans, lower the U.S.'s standing in the world, threaten U.S. national and international security, cozy up to the worst dictators like Putin and Kim, and on and on.

 

The question posed by the Gallup pollsters is really a tough one -- on one hand, Trump makes me sick and want to run as far away as possible from his and his ilk.  On the other hand, you don't want to leave your own country in the hands of a deranged imbecile like him and let the racists, nationalists, misogynists, ultra right, Christian fundamentalists etc etc. run amok in trying to impose their will on normal Americans.

 

 

[mcambl61]

49 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

As an Independent tRump supporters scared the F+++ out of me. I decided to see how Thailand compared as an alternate. Respect and the sabai sabai culture persuaded me to relocate. I have many loved one there and fell badly for them. They hate this President with a PASSION. Americans have ZERO respect for opposing views.

what nonsense, but those who disagree with your ideology may frighten you.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Not sure about that ...

 

The Trump era number is 16%.

 

The Obama era number was 10%.

 

Btw, the Gallup website has its own article and full details on the survey results. They do the survey on this regularly, nothing about Trump as the motivation.

 

One of the more interesting details in the result is alot of the increase during the Trump era is coming from women under age 30....

 

I guess theyve had enough of his misogynistic, adultering, p***y grabbing, sexual harassment supporting vulgarity.

 

 

 

 

BTW, here's the link to the full Gallup writeup and poll results on their own website:

 

https://news.gallup.com/poll/245789/record-numbers-americans-leave.aspx

 

 

[skatewash]

59 minutes ago, earlinclaifornia said:

As an American who has a retirement in the top 92% I have not had to pay either California or Federal taxes while I file each year. Please explain how you can state "not the sharpest knives in the drawer". Thanks in advance.

OK, but first can you explain how people pay any less federal taxes when they move overseas than they would have to pay if they lived in America?  Whether you pay state taxes is entirely dependent on whether you are a tax resident of a state that has a state income tax or not.  Now I think you're prepared to answer your own question.  

Anyone who moves outside the US to avoid federal and state taxes does not understand how income is taxed in the US and therefore is "not the sharpest knife in the drawer."

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

[Nyezhov]

1 hour ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Americans have ZERO respect for opposing views.

Try telling someone you support Trump and see what respect you get.

 

But hey its just a poll. I wonder if Barbara Streisand is going to leave.

[EVENKEEL]

Listening to the newest members of Congress speak on TV "Wacky Dems" could certainly spark the idea of looking for a way out. 

[lust]

I’ll exchange my Canadian passport for USA passport, any takers?

[wabothai]

9 hours ago, khwaibah said:

Don't let the door hit your butt.????

Bett your butt is hurting.

[oldrunner]

I still love the United States, served her for just over 20 years in her USAF (including Viet Nam), I blame the leaving to the mass of snowflakes pumped out by our tax supported Colleges and Universities. Look at the trash now peopling Germany, England and the streets of New York and San Francisco. No thank you. I have a devoted (and patient) Thai wife of 17 years, love the climate and mostly get around the language difficulties with gestures and smiles.

[oobar]

8 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

Consider the implications of the loss of their taxes on your  social security and medicare benefits, on military budgets etc.. Someone has to pay for your benefits.

Uh, if you're an American citizen, you must still pay the IRS, no matter where you live in the world.  It's a nice gift to the US with nothing offered in return.  Even the right to participate in Medicare is taken away.  Still, an America passport is a good thing to have.

[Thaidream]

9 hours ago, doggie1955 said:

Well someone got their facts right for once!

Actually, the exodus started  a decade ago; increased under Obama due to economic issues and the IRS FACTA and has risen under Trump due to his policies and the countries dislike of him.

 

Many Americans do not feel free any longer due to a lack of upward mobility. The wealthy control a huge part of the American economy and pay  unlivable wages to Americans. The federal minimum wage is $7.25.  Even a single person cannot live on that let alone a married couple with children.  Americans have no universal healthcare. University Tuition is so high- that it takes 20 years to repay it while other countries provide their citizens  free tuition.

 

The US Federal Debt is over 20 Trillion Dollars- much held by China which puts America in a clear and present danger. The US Military budget is the highest in the World and has been increase during the current Administration to unsustainable levels.

 

I am an American and always will be but we Americans have to face the truth.  Our system is cracking and there is no real leadership either Republican or Democrat. We have been lied to; manipulated and governed by people who simply want to keep themselves in power to propagate a broken system which benefits themselves.

 

The problem with Donald Trump is that while he can articulate what the problems facing America are- his solutions are devoid of any real long term relief.  Americans keep electing and re-electing people who have no real grasp of the needed solutions and how to implement  a sustainable change which benefits the Nation and it's people.

 

I really don't see much hope in the near future because the America political system and how we nominate candidates for office is all controlled by big money. Until real political reform is put into place we will continue to have a choice only between flawed candidates..

 

The majority of the people leaving the US are wealthy already . To even renounce US citizenship  the fee is over $2000 at the Embassy not to mention a complete audit of your taxes. I don't think many minimum wage workers will be crossing the US border.

 

[stevenl]

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

And I would add, in italiques:

 

the difference is that the people wanting in are unskilled, uneducated and have very few options in life, and the USA possibly all that's maybe within the reach of their very stretched individual resources, and according to Trump, violent filth. Whereas, the ones who want out are educated, higher income, and contribute to society. See the difference?

Also the ones coming in are contributing to society.

[RocketDog]

7 hours ago, attrayant said:

 

A blind man could see it with his cane.  People, no matter where they are, want to move to what they see as a better place.

 

 

In other words...

 

If you could read more than the headline, you'd see that this is a Gallup poll that many news outlets are reporting on.

Here's the real story.

 

People opting for expatriation in the USA has been increasing every year for the last decade. The state department has raised the exit fees twice in the last 5 years. The state department publishes the expatriation figures but by their own admission they are not accurate because of updating delays(!? ????) . 

 

Bottom line? 

More and more people are getting out of Dodge; the State Dept. knows it and intentionally under-reports the numbers. 

 

The reasons are myriad but a primary cause is the taxation. American citizens are taxed on income they make anywhere in the world as long as they are citizens. Except for Eritrea, America is the only country in the world with this policy.

 

When you expatriate you are allowed to retain investments in the USA such as bank accounts, pension funds, real estate, etc. HOWEVER, the value of such is estimated at current market value and YOU MUST PAY TAX ON IT AS IF IT WERE LIQUIDATED BEFORE YOU LEAVE. 

 

While it is attractive to believe the exodus is winding up because of our glorious King wannabe Agent Orange, it is most likely due to dissatisfaction with an inexorable and pervasive degradation of the quality of life in my home country. The political clusterf**k  going on right now is disgraceful but is only the tip of the rotten iceberg my country has run into.

 

I laugh when I read TV forum posts that speak of the foolishness of keeping funds in Thai banks. They clearly don't understand that EU and American banks are grossly more prone to asset seizure or outright insolvency than are Thai banks and even have a rich history of failure. 

 

If I sound bitter it is only because I am. And ashamed to boot. 

 

That is certainly my reason for defecting to LOS two years ago within weeks of reaching full retirement age and quitting my job. 

 

I haven't regretted that decision, regardless of where I may go in the future. 

[SheungWan]

Jonestown Guyana and post-Brexit UK are looking cool alternatives.

[TooPoopedToPop]

4 hours ago, Nice Boyd said:

Yeah, I don’t like Canadians, either

 

4 hours ago, TooPoopedToPop said:

+1

Most of 'em are dumb as dirt ain't they?

Almost as bad as us Gringos.

 

 

2 hours ago, earlinclaifornia said:

Having visited and stayed on both the East and Wester Canada. I adore the people;e I met there in comparison to America. You however must have had different experiences, Prey tell?

My brother would be quick to agree with you. He has traveled the country extensively and loves the people.

But to me, they have always seemed too polite, too obsequious, and bland as milquetoast. If I spent more time there no doubt I would meet many exceptions to my prejudiced opinion.

Now, do you want to hear what I think about my fellow-Americans?  I thought not.

The loves of my life are Thai. My wife and two grown daughters, followed by our extended family in Chiang Mai and elsewhere in Thailand.

In no country of the 50+ that I've ever visited have such a high percentage of the people been so instinctively courteous, civil, and fun-loving.

For me, that adds a great deal to the joy of life.

[Tug]

Stay and fight don’t let the nutbags turn the country into a right wing banana state!

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Tug said:

Stay and fight don’t let the nutbags turn the country into a right wing banana state!

You are telling expats who have already left the USA to stay and fight?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Thaidream said:

The majority of the people leaving the US are wealthy already . To even renounce US citizenship  the fee is over $2000 at the Embassy not to mention a complete audit of your taxes. I don't think many minimum wage workers will be crossing the US border.

 

 

Renouncing U.S. citizenship is an entirely different, and far more drastic move, that simply choosing to live in another country.  Safe to say, most of the Americans living in Thailand (and elsewhere abroad) haven't renounced their citizenship and have no plans to, but have chosen for whatever reasons to live in a different country.

 

The Gallup poll that's the subject of this thread and those responding to it had absolutely nothing to do about renouncing citizenship. The poll results were only asking about people's desire/willingness to live outside the U.S., period.

 

[Longcut]

10 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

the difference is that the people wanting in are unskilled, uneducated and according to Trump, violent filth. Whereas, the ones who want out are educated, higher income, and contribute to society. See the difference?

I don't consider the Hollywood crowd educated or that they contribute to society. So no, I don't see the difference.

[Opl]

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Longcut said:

I don't consider the Hollywood crowd educated or that they contribute to society. So no, I don't see the difference.

The Gallup poll said 16%. Are you under the impression the 16% of the US population lives in Hollywood? Or even that 16% of the population makes their living from the entertainment biz?

[BigA]

Surprised this cheesy Huff Post article is getting as much airtime as it’s getting. 

 

People expatriate themselves if they can and if that’s what they want.

 

I did so years ago but still happily get back to the US at least twice a year. 

 

Trump is doing good for the US and personally I cannot grasp the liberal mindset on most of their issues, with his performance. I think anyone who is a realist should be happy.

 

Cheers

 

 

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, BigA said:

Surprised this cheesy Huff Post article is getting as much airtime as it’s getting. 

 

People expatriate themselves if they can and if that’s what they want.

 

I did so years ago but still happily get back to the US at least twice a year. 

 

Trump is doing good for the US and personally I cannot grasp the liberal mindset on most of their issues, with his performance. I think anyone who is a realist should be happy.

 

Cheers

 

 

Right, It's a nice place to visit but you wouldn't want to live there.

[Bluespunk]

14 hours ago, pgrahmm said:

The exodus started with Obama....Highest recorded numbers (at that time)....

 

 

 

Really...

 

15 hours ago, webfact said:

While that number matches 2017 data and doesn’t stray much from global standards, it remains significantly higher than it was during the presidencies of Barack Obama or George W. Bush. In the Obama administration, 10 percent wanted to jump ship. The figure was 11 percent in the Bush administration.

 

[Cryingdick]

13 hours ago, geriatrickid said:

The people who want out often are the most creative or wealthiest. They relocate for tax  and estate planning purposes. Consider the implications of the loss of their taxes on your  social security and medicare benefits, on military budgets etc.. Someone has to pay for your benefits.

Pretty sure that us Americans have to pay taxes on any income above $92,000 in   a year. That isn't much if you work in Japan, Singapore, Europe, etc.  Also if you renounce your citizenship you will have to pay a hefty exit tax if you are worth $2 million or so. 

 

The people threaten to leave have probably not even gone as far as researching visas. The people that do end up leaving are more likely retired people seeking a country with a cheaper cost of living. Sound familiar?

[Cryingdick]

10 hours ago, Hanaguma said:

A quick look at European/Scandanavian style taxation would have most Americans, particularly those even moderately well off, squealing in indignation. In places like Sweden, the top tax bracket is 60%, but it kicks in when your income is just 1.2 times the national average!  For Americans, this would be somewhere around $60,000 a year putting you in the top bracket.

 

They also have Value Added Taxes and luxury taxes that far outstrip conventional state sales taxes- VAT standard in Sweden is 25% on most goods and services.   Plus gasoline is about $7 per gallon. Same for a pack of cigarettes. 

 

People need to think before making such rash pronouncements. 

 

Not to mention they would also be liable to pay American taxes in addition to whatever the local taxes are if above $92,000 a year in income. 

[sirineou]

17 hours ago, wwest5829 said:

Try to think...its not the tax rate... it is what you get in return for the taxes paid...I get endless warfare...oh, and now Individual #1 wants me to pay for a 2000 mile long wall...

They don't get it.

There is direct taxation and there is indirect taxation.

  What matters is the bottom line.

You could  pay Pay $20.000 more in tax per year and get free medical and free higher education, or you can pay $20,000 less in tax and pay $40,000 for education and medical on your own.

  A $60,000 investment in educating a person will come back tenfold in the lifetime of that person, in productivity and taxes paid from the higher wages earned. And at the same time you have an educated citizen who will not elect someone like Trump. Same goes for universal health insurance.

Ask yourself, where do you want to live. I a country of educated healthy citizens or in a country of uneducated , sick citizens? 

  Some people will cut their nose off, to spite their face. 

[Nyezhov]

8 hours ago, BigA said:

People expatriate themselves if they can and if that’s what they want.

My daughter is a 27 year old expat, with a Masters degree in Science Education, and about 1/4 of the way through a Phd.

 

Now, in China, she is up to about $40,000 per year, depending on exchange, a free apartment, free lunch 5 days a week, health insurance (but she pays for medical herself to real Drs) and more days off than Carter has little pills. She has no plans to return to the USA until 2020, when she will go back to visit her crazy scumbag cheapskate money grubbing bitch of a mother and get her teaching certification renewed

 

In two years, she has been able to travel to 14 different cities in China, Thailand 4 times, Malaysia, Korea, Singapore, Bali, the Tibet Plateau, plus other areas in Indonesia twice and is next on her way to Harbin. Then Cambodia with Moi. This summer, she is either doing the Adriatic Coast or if I have something to say about it, Nepal. ???? Her goal is to travel to every safe country in the world. She brags that she is the "traveling bitch".

 

Even though she hates China, she is banking a good $10K a year even after her travels and taxes and student loans. She has a trust fund. Her kids wear uniforms, grovel in apology if she reprimands them, do their homework and behave.

 

She cares little about US politics (other than the regurgitation of her an idiot millenial PC Snowflake memes) except she despises Teachers Unions, which she feels is about 70% of the education problem in the US.

 

Now with that, would ya'll say she is an expat because she hates America and is just fleeing the horrors of the USA, or is she being smart and enjoying the world by taking advantage of her skills and the genetic lottery?

[Sir Dude]

These people should just leave then, but of course they never do...they just want to have a fleeting self-centered hissy-fit ego explosion about it all in an attempt to be the fashionable social media CoA. Would love to see the actual figures for those that really have the nuts to go through with their wishes after the initial tantrum.