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BANGKOK 19 January 2019 07:21
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Brexit: Germany says not time to discuss Article 50 extension

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39 minutes ago, nauseus said:

So the government just says "bugger it, lets trigger Article 50 today, right now, no messin about". That action would have brought down whoever risked taking it and it would have gone down really well with most of the Europhiles, eh?

 

Give my regards to Peter Pan.

No, you're completely skewing what I've said.

 

To put it in terms even you can understand:

 

The government triggers article 50 and tells the country that, when the deal is finalised, they will hold a referendum as to whether to accept the deal or remain. Both sides would have been much happier with that.

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11 hours ago, Spidey said:

No, you're completely skewing what I've said.

 

To put it in terms even you can understand:

 

The government triggers article 50 and tells the country that, when the deal is finalised, they will hold a referendum as to whether to accept the deal or remain. Both sides would have been much happier with that.

Just pulls the trigger, just pulls it, right?

 

Shoot low Sheriff, he's riding a Shetland! :cowboy: 

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On 1/10/2019 at 3:54 PM, melvinmelvin said:

 

the term tedious comes to mind

 

well opined DD, I might lend some support to that in return for a Belhaven

 

whether the referendum was binding or advisory re which criteria etc etc is surely

an interesting discussion for those interested in constitutional legal matters

but that is hardly the main thrust of these Brexit threads

 

now,

I'm kinda surprised that TVFers put so much effort and energy into engaging in repeat discussions

re history (like binding / advisory)

Cameron

Blair

who pissed where at what time for what purpose?

 

fine little energy and TVF resources are spent on looking forward,

what should the foggy islands do now and in the near future in order to benefit the society

that would be more useful and more interesting (but admittedly also more difficult)

 

planning the future is way more challenging than pissing into the past

 

"fine little energy and TVF resources are spent on looking forward,

what should the foggy islands do now and in the near future in order to benefit the society

that would be more useful and more interesting (but admittedly also more difficult)

planning the future is way more challenging than pissing into the past"

 

The problem is that what happens next is entirely down to MPs, so there's zero point in us speculating about future planning as, at the moment, the electorate and (even more so!) TV posters have very little influence and even less control!

 

I expect the next 'round' of genuinely interesting comments and arguments will happen once we know what has been 'decided' by the govt. and MPs in (hopefully) the near future.

 

Edit - I've no idea what a belhaven is (it sounds like something from Norse mythology? 😁) - but assuming its a drink, please have one on me as I appreciate so many of your posts 🙂.

Edited by dick dasterdly
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8 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

"fine little energy and TVF resources are spent on looking forward,

what should the foggy islands do now and in the near future in order to benefit the society

that would be more useful and more interesting (but admittedly also more difficult)

planning the future is way more challenging than pissing into the past"

 

The problem is that what happens next is entirely down to MPs, so there's zero point in us speculating about future planning as, at the moment, the electorate and (even more so!) TV posters have very little influence and even less control!

 

I expect the next 'round' of genuinely interesting comments and arguments will happen once we know what has been 'decided' by the govt. and MPs in (hopefully) the near future.

 

Edit - I've no idea what a belhaven is (it sounds like something from Norse mythology? 😁) - but assuming its a drink, please have one on me as I appreciate so many of your posts 🙂.

 

what can I say,

guess my general comment would be; be proactive rather than a responder, be part of setting the agenda,

even if you are retired in Asia, as I also am

 

I would assume that UK MPs responds to public pressure,

be part of establishing that pressure, don't give in

its your country not only the politicians - they are merely co-owners

 

-----

 

at any rate as we say in Yorkshire,

 

Belhaven, a Scottish heavy - oooooohhh nice

 

Back in the ice age when I went to uni in Edinburgh

on Sundays me and pals often did one of two,

snooker and some pints in Edinburgh University student union quarters

or

taking the bus to Belhaven, indulging in Belhavens in a local hotel (Sunday mind you)

 

Belhaven is a small village west of the city, along a road parallel to the West Approach Road

but halfway up in the hills, (say Morningside/Tollcross and straight west to give you an idea)

 

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26 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

Back in the ice age when I went to uni in Edinburgh

 

Well that explains, why it's sometimes so difficult to understand what you say.

 

You are writing with Scottish accent! 

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56 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

what can I say,

guess my general comment would be; be proactive rather than a responder, be part of setting the agenda,

even if you are retired in Asia, as I also am

 

I would assume that UK MPs responds to public pressure,

be part of establishing that pressure, don't give in

its your country not only the politicians - they are merely co-owners

 

-----

 

at any rate as we say in Yorkshire,

 

Belhaven, a Scottish heavy - oooooohhh nice

 

Back in the ice age when I went to uni in Edinburgh

on Sundays me and pals often did one of two,

snooker and some pints in Edinburgh University student union quarters

or

taking the bus to Belhaven, indulging in Belhavens in a local hotel (Sunday mind you)

 

Belhaven is a small village west of the city, along a road parallel to the West Approach Road

but halfway up in the hills, (say Morningside/Tollcross and straight west to give you an idea)

 

Thanks for the explanation re. belhaven - I've wondered every time you mention it!

 

As, like you, I'm now living in Thailand, there's no way to be proactive, even if I wanted to pursue that path.  And I don't, as living abroad I think it's up to those living in the UK to react once they KNOW their govt.'s future actions - which should prove one way or another their intentions.

 

In the same way as May's 'commitments' re. brexit have continually changed, and we now know her 'agenda'.....

 

She started with agreeing to the eu's ridiculous agenda list as to the order in which issues would be discussed (!), and then went on to:-

1) "no deal is better than a bad deal" - and now is desperately trying to convince everyone that her 'deal' (loved by the eu) is actually a very good deal 😁

2) moved on to 'It's either the agreed deal, or no deal'

3) if I understand correctly, this has now changed to it's either my deal or remaining within the eu?  I'm not sure on this point, as it's all been very vague by both May and MPs......

 

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3 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

As, like you, I'm now living in Thailand, there's no way to be proactive, even if I wanted to pursue that path.  And I don't, as living abroad I think it's up to those living in the UK to react once they KNOW their govt.'s future actions - which should prove one way or another their intentions.

I have lived in for several years now. Managed to vote in the last referendum.

 

Don't know if I'll vote in the upcoming referendum or not.

Edited by Spidey

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22 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Thanks for the explanation re. belhaven - I've wondered every time you mention it!

 

As, like you, I'm now living in Thailand, there's no way to be proactive, even if I wanted to pursue that path.  And I don't, as living abroad I think it's up to those living in the UK to react once they KNOW their govt.'s future actions - which should prove one way or another their intentions.

 

In the same way as May's 'commitments' re. brexit have continually changed, and we now know her 'agenda'.....

 

She started with agreeing to the eu's ridiculous agenda list as to the order in which issues would be discussed (!), and then went on to:-

1) "no deal is better than a bad deal" - and now is desperately trying to convince everyone that her 'deal' (loved by the eu) is actually a very good deal 😁

2) moved on to 'It's either the agreed deal, or no deal'

3) if I understand correctly, this has now changed to it's either my deal or remaining within the eu?  I'm not sure on this point, as it's all been very vague by both May and MPs......

 

 

think your are right,

May's credo is now; my deal or remain

 

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7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

think your are right,

May's credo is now; my deal or remain

 

But surely once article 50 has been signed we have two years to negotiate a deal, if no deal has been agreed, by law we leave the EU and nothing Parliament says makes any difference. The only way out is to revoke art 50, isn't it?

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39 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

1) "no deal is better than a bad deal" - and now is desperately trying to convince everyone that her 'deal' (loved by the eu) is actually a very good deal 😁

I'm pretty sure that May's deal is "loved by EU" only because it's the only deal which offers a moderately clear solution to the mess Brexit has become. 

 

It's not perfect for either side, but it is an solution, which allows both sides to go forward.

 

Let's remember that deal is simply a temporary measurement. The real negotiations of the future of our relationship starts only after that deal has been passed by the UK parliament.

 

I guess that will actually happen in the near future. 

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3 minutes ago, oilinki said:

I'm pretty sure that May's deal is "loved by EU" only because it's the only deal which offers a moderately clear solution to the mess Brexit has become. 

 

It's not perfect for either side, but it is an solution, which allows both sides to go forward.

 

Let's remember that deal is simply a temporary measurement. The real negotiations of the future of our relationship starts only after that deal has been passed by the UK parliament.

 

I guess that will actually happen in the near future. 

Let’s remember that it took the E.U. Only 45mins to agree to accept May.s so called deal. I wonder why?

 

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45 minutes ago, vogie said:

But surely once article 50 has been signed we have two years to negotiate a deal, if no deal has been agreed, by law we leave the EU and nothing Parliament says makes any difference. The only way out is to revoke art 50, isn't it?

 

if you talk formalities, my understanding is as follows;

 

UK has a statute stating that on 29 March evening UK exits EU

(that is the default, deal or no deal)

 

if deal flies in parliament, that statute must be modified or abrogated,

if not the UK pisses off on the 29th regardless, it is in the law

 

if parliament should fancy requesting a prolongation of A50,

if all 28 agree, the statute must be modified or abrogated for the prolongation to be legal

 

if parliament should conclude that Brexit ain't sound - remain is preferable

that statute must be altered or abrogated, if not - the UK pisses off on the 29th, it is in the law

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, nontabury said:

Let’s remember that it took the E.U. Only 45mins to agree to accept May.s so called deal. I wonder why?

 

45 minutes? If I’m not mistaken, this deal was being negotiated by the two parties over the course of nearly two years. 

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