Brexit: Germany says not time to discuss Article 50 extension

[nontabury]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Yes, the massively powerful AFD may push for an exit from the EU. That will surely terrify the more than 80 percent of the electorate who want no part of that.

That’s what the establishment thought of UKIP just 15yrs ago.

The rest is history.

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, Dene16 said:

I agree, however the continued migration to the UK had to stop before it was too late to turn the clock back. 

The majority of migrants to the UK come from outside the EU. Leaving the EU will do nothing to stem that tide.

[Spidey]

4 hours ago, smedly said:

you are making a common error regarding UK trade with the EU 27, 90% of it actually only involves 6 of the 27 and those 6 rely heavily on UK trade

Simples, divide by 6 instead of 27, same principal applies.

[Spidey]

4 hours ago, bristolboy said:

It's not as bad as all that. It's bad, but not that bad. The EU in toto has a GDP of about 18 trillion dollars. The UK's share is about 2.6 trillion dollars. Which means that a about 14 percent of the EU's GDP belongs to the UK. This doesn't track exactly with the amount of trade between the UK and the rest of the EU but it does give a clearer idea of their relative strengths.

I was using hypothetical figures. Put your own figures in and the same principal applied. Britain will suffer far more than any one individual European country.

[bomber]

3 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Well, I ran the figures for Germany and their exports to the UK account for about 2.75 percent of GDP. So that's a considerable figure. 

but all trade wont stop,only some and germany wont lose 100000s of jobs like the UK,it will gain when many companies lose,this will offset any slight trade loses

[bomber]

12 minutes ago, Spidey said:

The majority of migrants to the UK come from outside the EU. Leaving the EU will do nothing to stem that tide.

correct ive been clocking how many africans there are working in low paid care home jobs,all nowt to do with the EU,a british made problem as usual

[vinny41]

It's not Brexit Britain most likely to have a recession. It's Germany

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jan/08/its-not-brexit-britain-most-likely-to-suffer-recession-its-germany

[JAG]

This whole arguement ignores the point that Brexit, and the debate which surrounds it, covers a wide range of aspects of the UK's membership/departure from the EU. It focuses on mathematics, which are based on a variety of inexact statistics, and the mathematical processes applied seem to vary depending on which result the person doing the maths wishes to achieve! One of the most vociferous arguers has even declared that his conclusions are based on hypothetical figures! That declaration incidentally came some posts after he declared that anyone who disagrees with him (voted to leave) was a "knob"! Hypothetically speaking "a knob" I presume.

 

There is a wider point - this debate has been so poisoned by this sort of suggestion; we have different views so therefore you are "a knob", that there is little point in continuing, whether or not the statistics upon which arguments are based are hypothetical or not! Sad.

[evadgib]

10 hours ago, baboon said:

Here's a thought: Why not express your own views in your own words, rather than engaging in a war of links? Do you need to hang around lollygagging and waiting for the next instructions from the mothership?

 

Applies to both sides, so I am not having a go at you personally.

Feedback appreciated, but;

 

a) I was about to log off when I saw the OP, having already seen my link elsewhere and chosen not to open a(n other) brexit thread (I'm fed up with them too) &

 

b  ) I couldn't have written the content any better or expect anyone to take it seriously without seeing where it came from. The norm here is to Rhubarb the poster instead, particularly if he's a brexiter, in order to deliberately curtail their views.

[evadgib]

10 hours ago, bristolboy said:

Yes, the massively powerful AFD may push for an exit from the EU. That will surely terrify the more than 80 percent of the electorate who want no part of that.

Ferarge & Co were similarly dismissed as I recall yet later delivered his 'not laughing now' speech to a stunned EU parliament.

[Thingamabob]

12 hours ago, Spidey said:

No. The culprits are the knobs who voted leave. From the beginning, we were always going to end up in this mess no matter who did the negotiating on the British side.

 

Did you really think that the rest of the EU membership were going to let us leave quietly and amicably?

Wrong. The problem has been created by UK's clueless civil service negotiators. Or maybe they were under orders to be clueless ?

[Spidey]

47 minutes ago, Thingamabob said:

Wrong. The problem has been created by UK's clueless civil service negotiators. Or maybe they were under orders to be clueless ?

As Barnier & Co. held all the cards and we held none, it was clear, even before the vote, that they were going to make it as onerous as possible for us to leave the EU, as punishment for having the temerity to leave and as a salutary warning to any other country that may be thinking of leaving.

 

The British negotiators were on a hiding to nothing. What tools did they have to negotiate with?

[JAG]

24 minutes ago, Spidey said:

As Barnier & Co. held all the cards and we held none, it was clear, even before the vote, that they were going to make it as onerous as possible for us to leave the EU, as punishment for having the temerity to leave and as a salutary warning to any other country that may be thinking of leaving.

 

The British negotiators were on a hiding to nothing. What tools did they have to negotiate with?

Cash, spondoolucks, dosh, wompah...

 

A major concern (perhaps the major concern) for the EU was the financial hole left by the UK's departure. We rather opened the whole negotiations by stating that we were prepared to give them a remarkable amount of money, pretty well no matter what conditions they sought to apply.

 

Perhaps, in years to come, the UK negotiating team and their performance could be the subject for a "Blackadder" comedy special?

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, JAG said:

Cash, spondoolucks, dosh, wompah...

 

A major concern (perhaps the major concern) for the EU was the financial hole left by the UK's departure. We rather opened the whole negotiations by stating that we were prepared to give them a remarkable amount of money, pretty well no matter what conditions they sought to apply.

Actually, the figure was almost halved from the Eu's opening gambit. Also, a considerable amount of that was what we were contractually obliged to honour, no matter what the outcome of negotiations.

 

We will still end up shelling out billions even with a no deal Brexit.

[Libai]

12 hours ago, Spidey said:

How do you figure that? Hypothetically, if all trade stops between us and Europe, we lose all of our trade, each member country loses only 1/27th of it's trade. Do the maths, we lose out far more than any one European country. Simples!

What do you mean by 'Simples'?  Your mail is not True. 39% of UK exports (and falling) go via the European ports with a large percentage upto 6% going on in transit.  The UK trade mainly with the northern countries, very little with the southern countries who are heavily in debt or under management by EU managers.   Look at this way the total % of Exports are  in the region of 10% of UK GDP.  Consequently exports to the EU are important but are less than 4% of the total.  Maths eh? 

[Spidey]

9 minutes ago, Libai said:

What do you mean by 'Simples'?  Your mail is not True. 39% of UK exports (and falling) go via the European ports with a large percentage upto 6% going on in transit.  The UK trade mainly with the northern countries, very little with the southern countries who are heavily in debt or under management by EU managers.   Look at this way the total % of Exports are  in the region of 10% of UK GDP.  Consequently exports to the EU are important but are less than 4% of the total.  Maths eh? 

I did say "hypothetically". Insert your own figures into the equation and the answer comes out the same. The UK will lose out more than any individual European country.

[metisdead]

Some nonsense posts and the replies have been removed. 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

As Barnier & Co. held all the cards and we held none, it was clear, even before the vote, that they were going to make it as onerous as possible for us to leave the EU, as punishment for having the temerity to leave and as a salutary warning to any other country that may be thinking of leaving.

 

The British negotiators were on a hiding to nothing. What tools did they have to negotiate with?

Junker, Barnier & Tusk Ltd??

[nauseus]

15 hours ago, Spidey said:

No. The culprits are the knobs who voted leave. From the beginning, we were always going to end up in this mess no matter who did the negotiating on the British side.

 

Did you really think that the rest of the EU membership were going to let us leave quietly and amicably?

Knobs back at ya. May's "deal" has shown that there have obviously been no serious "negotiations" throughout. 

[whatsupdoc]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Knobs back at ya. May's "deal" has shown that there have obviously been no serious "negotiations" throughout. 

Barnier seemed serious. Davis? Nah, not so much...

 

Clearly there have been serious negotiations (with Olly Robbins though). That you do not like the result is something entirely different.

[Joinaman]

14 hours ago, bomber said:

leave voters know very little bout maths,

you may be correct , but perhaps you could show us, in simple words and figures, exactly what both Leaving and Remaining means./ I;m sure you, as a remainer, know exactly what you voted for down to the last pound spend due to your maths knowledge, and i'm sure not just us on TV, but even the MPs would be interesting in your figures, and how you arrived at them. Its ok, we can wait a little while while you do your maths and show us poor deluded people where we went wrong. Please include all net gains and losses, time scales for these, not just in monetary values, but in trading, laws, immigration and anything else that the EU has rights over us for

[nauseus]

22 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

Barnier seemed serious. Davis? Nah, not so much...

 

Clearly there have been serious negotiations (with Olly Robbins though). That you do not like the result is something entirely different.

Clearly Davis was not allowed to attempt any serious negotiations - that's why he quit - or did you miss that?

[bristolboy]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Clearly Davis was not allowed to attempt any serious negotiations - that's why he quit - or did you miss that?

He quit because he was ill-prepared and made demands that the EU found laughable.

[whatsupdoc]

Just now, nauseus said:

Clearly Davis was not allowed to attempt any serious negotiations - that's why he quit - or did you miss that?

OK, if you think so but perhaps incompetence played a role as well.

 

Remains the fact that the EU were dedicated to have serious negotiations, the UK apparently not.

[nauseus]

2 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

OK, if you think so but perhaps incompetence played a role as well.

 

Remains the fact that the EU were dedicated to have serious negotiations, the UK apparently not.

I agree with the last bit (of the last bit). But why is that then?

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

He quit because he was ill-prepared and made demands that the EU found laughable.

That comment is what is laughable.

[RichardColeman]

16 hours ago, Spidey said:

No. The culprits are the knobs who voted leave.

I am one of those knobs and proud of it. The non-knobs lost. It's the non-knob politicians in parliament making the trouble for the knobs by trying to keep us half in with their half non-knobed agenda.

[whatsupdoc]

3 minutes ago, nauseus said:

I agree with the last bit (of the last bit). But why is that then?

I am not British and why the UK has the urge to harm itself by means of Brexit is completely beyond my comprehension. 

[superal]

14 hours ago, bomber said:

after brexit BMW will close its oxford plant and move to eastern europe as will nissan,toyota,jaguar all because of brexit,pretty sickening isnt it,100,000+ good jobs gone,one good thing the slovaks and pole fruit and veg pickers in lincolnshire might have to return home to build these cars,now thats what brexit was all about ???? 50000 quality low paid  jobs created.

Visions of rats leaving a sinking ship ? does that mean we get our country back , lessen the burden on our hospitals , housing , indigenous employment and education , then bring it on . The UK will come out on top because Brits are being proactive and  have had enough of EU ways . UK is booming with unemployment at 4% , 3rd lowest in Europe . Big investments by hi tech companies right now .

TM Brexit plan is a bit like a couple getting divorced and the when the  "who gets what is sorted " there is one proviso that the ex husband gets to have intercourse a couple of times a week with the ex wife free of charge and no strings .

[JonnyF]

31 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

I am not British and why the UK has the urge to harm itself by means of Brexit is completely beyond my comprehension. 

Harm itself? There may be some short term pain, followed by long term gain. Kind of like 1 step back and 5 steps forward.

 

I had an American colleague ask me the same thing about why we'd leave. I asked him if he'd like the US to join an equivalent South American Union (like a huge, bloated version of UNASUR). If he'd accept power being taken away from Washington and handed over to this Union which was ruling from say, Guatemala City, run by the South American equivalent of men he hadn't voted for like Juncker, that struggle to stay sober and can't wear matching shoes. If he'd like the US to pay billions and billions of tax payers dollars into this Union every year, and in return accept freedom of movement into the US from citizens of member states such as Paraguay and Peru. I asked how many % of GDP it would take before he accepted that. He said no amount of money could ever make him accept that for the US. So I asked him why he thought the UK should accept it...