UK PM May defeated in parliament, lawmakers create new obstacle to no-deal Brexit

[mommysboy]

2 hours ago, AGareth2 said:

MPs

The Government proposes, Parliament votes, the Queen rubber stamps.

[mommysboy]

12 minutes ago, David in the north said:

Rubbish.
Trying to over rule a democratic vote will cause many problems in the UK - regardless of what your view point was or is

True, but Brexit seems to be causing a heck of a lot more!

 

I don't think it will put democracy at risk, merely point out what truly crap politicians we have (red and blue).

[gamini]

the brexiteers are panicking, with less and less of the UK wanting to leave the EU. They talk about democracy and the will of the people. They will never admit to the fact that now knowing what leaving means, they wish to change their minds. Brexit it is no longer the will of the majority of Brits! so they should stop harping about it.

[JonnyF]

2 hours ago, Chomper Higgot said:

“Trying to sabotage the process with these type of votes would cause massive issues. “

 

Unspecified ‘massive issues’ v wrecking the economy.

Really? How would trading on WTO terms wreck the economy? 

 

You do realize that the bulk of the World's trade is done on WTO terms? That there are many more countries outside the EU than in it? I wonder why all the countries outside the EU don't have wrecked economies. Puzzling huh?

[brewsterbudgen]

the brexiteers are panicking, with less and less of the UK wanting to leave the EU. They talk about democracy and the will of the people. They will never admit to the fact that now knowing what leaving means, they wish to change their minds. Brexit it is no longer the will of the majority of Brits! so they should stop harping about it.

Indeed. The Brexiteers are desperate as they can see popular opinion as well as the views of parliament have turned. It's now inevitable that Article 50 will have to be extended, followed by a General Election where if Labour have any sense, Remain is in their manifesto. Corbyn must go!

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[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, alant said:

The anti democracy rulers will do anything to keep their EU power base.

So add the House of Commons to the House of Lords, the High Courts, the Supreme Court as Enemies of the People for the Hard Brexiteers.

[SheungWan]

13 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

The Government proposes, Parliament votes, the Queen rubber stamps.

....which for the Hard Brexiteers, they wish was the other way round.

[welovesundaysatspace]

6 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Really? How would trading on WTO terms wreck the economy? 

 

You do realize that the bulk of the World's trade is done on WTO terms? That there are many more countries outside the EU than in it? I wonder why all the countries outside the EU don't have wrecked economies. Puzzling huh?

And you do realize that the bulk of the World’s population lives on less than 10$ a day? Shouldn’t be puzzling you either, so go ahead and live on that terms. 

[Loiner]

Indeed. The Brexiteers are desperate as they can see popular opinion as well as the views of parliament have turned. It's now inevitable that Article 50 will have to be extended, followed by a General Election where if Labour have any sense, Remain is in their manifesto. Corbyn must go!

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It’s not true to say that popular opinion has turned. Even though Remainers May claim so, there’s nothing to prove that.
Parliament? Well most of those were always elitist Remainers anyway.
Article 50 extension inevitability? Not so


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[nauseus]

18 minutes ago, gamini said:

the brexiteers are panicking, with less and less of the UK wanting to leave the EU. They talk about democracy and the will of the people. They will never admit to the fact that now knowing what leaving means, they wish to change their minds. Brexit it is no longer the will of the majority of Brits! so they should stop harping about it.

Who knows what leaving means? Not sure. 

Who knows what staying means? We have a pretty good idea!

 

[nauseus]

8 minutes ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

And you do realize that the bulk of the World’s population lives on less than 10$ a day? Shouldn’t be puzzling you either, so go ahead and live on that terms. 

Apples and pears (with orange juice).

[nauseus]

13 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

....which for the Hard Brexiteers, they wish was the other way round.

It would make things easier. ???? And more transparent, at least.

[welovesundaysatspace]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

Apples and pears (with orange juice).

Please tell that the OP (who was comparing apples with oranges). 

[SheungWan]

25 minutes ago, brewsterbudgen said:

Indeed. The Brexiteers are desperate as they can see popular opinion as well as the views of parliament have turned. It's now inevitable that Article 50 will have to be extended, followed by a General Election where if Labour have any sense, Remain is in their manifesto. Corbyn must go!

Labour don't have any sense right now.

[SheungWan]

33 minutes ago, mommysboy said:

The Government proposes, Parliament votes, the Queen rubber stamps.

Not quite a rubber stamp where legitimacy re forming a government is concerned.

[cleopatra2]

42 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Really? How would trading on WTO terms wreck the economy? 

 

You do realize that the bulk of the World's trade is done on WTO terms? That there are many more countries outside the EU than in it? I wonder why all the countries outside the EU don't have wrecked economies. Puzzling huh?

Only Mauritania trades on WTO rules alone, every other member have FTA.

However Mauritania do have some preferential agreements , such as EBA

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Really? How would trading on WTO terms wreck the economy? 

 

You do realize that the bulk of the World's trade is done on WTO terms? That there are many more countries outside the EU than in it? I wonder why all the countries outside the EU don't have wrecked economies. Puzzling huh?

I’m quite certain you find many things puzzling.

 

It’s not a problem you should address to others to solve for you.

[tomacht8]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Really? How would trading on WTO terms wreck the economy? 

 

You do realize that the bulk of the World's trade is done on WTO terms? That there are many more countries outside the EU than in it? I wonder why all the countries outside the EU don't have wrecked economies. Puzzling huh?

With some here it is hopeless.

Try reading something about the WTO. The WTO itself warns on disruption to UK of no-deal Brexit. The will to inform and educate oneself does not harm Jonny.

[dunroaming]

Losing the vote in the house last night was more symbolic than earth moving.  It does illustrate that MP's will make leaving with no-deal very difficult if not impossible to achieve.  Both leavers and remainers voted against the government last night from all parties.

 

Anyone still thinking that leaving with no-deal is acceptable really need a reality check.  It's a time for pragmatists now.  Time to fight to stop May taking us over the cliff and completely screwing the country.

[mommysboy]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Losing the vote in the house last night was more symbolic than earth moving.  It does illustrate that MP's will make leaving with no-deal very difficult if not impossible to achieve.  Both leavers and remainers voted against the government last night from all parties.

 

Anyone still thinking that leaving with no-deal is acceptable really need a reality check.  It's a time for pragmatists now.  Time to fight to stop May taking us over the cliff and completely screwing the country.

No, it does help to define the shape Brexit will take.

[White Christmas13]

8 hours ago, Spidey said:

Not in the English English language. She's an MP. This term has recently migrated over from the US. Ergo, US English. Hamburgers I can accept, lawmaker is a bridge too far.

Do Hamburgers come from Hamburg 

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

Losing the vote in the house last night was more symbolic than earth moving.  It does illustrate that MP's will make leaving with no-deal very difficult if not impossible to achieve.  Both leavers and remainers voted against the government last night from all parties.

 

Anyone still thinking that leaving with no-deal is acceptable really need a reality check.  It's a time for pragmatists now.  Time to fight to stop May taking us over the cliff and completely screwing the country.

no sweat,

if you and the UK parliament don't fancy no-deal then you must accept the May-deal next week,

or cancel the A50

neither is difficult

 

[Grouse]

 

This is worth listening to particularly for those Brexiters who still don't understand

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

This is worth listening to particularly for those Brexiters who still don't understand

And after watching that talk, read what is happening in real life right now.

 

"$1 Trillion Fleeing London Because of Brexit"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-07/brexit-spurs-1-trillion-asset-moves-to-eu-from-london-ey-says

 

Brexit is no longer a theory. Businesses are moving on to protect their assets and markets. 

 

Then there is the 'Taking back control' idea, which many brexitters are constantly saying. Well, life works in mysterious ways. 

 

"In Brexit Britain, Taking Back Control Means the Opposite"

https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2019-01-07/in-brexit-britain-taking-back-control-means-the-opposite

 

 

 

[nontabury]

9 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

The sovereignty of parliament is past. 

 

We should listen to the mob now - it is the only form of true democracy.  And once the mob has spoken, it must be obeyed, regardless of any trepidation or faint-hearted equivocation on the part of the people.

So your calling 17.4 million people the mob?

Why not come out and say your against Democracy.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So your calling 17.4 million people the mob?

Why not come out and say your against Democracy.

I would think that the loudest and craziest mob consists of perhaps few tens of thousands people. The second layer is the hardcore brexitters, who are about 5-7%. This is way better than USA's Trumpists, which is about 30%.

 

The rest of the leave voters are moderate folks, who'll vote with their local area population. Not really thinking of what it could mean, just going along with others.

[Baerboxer]

10 hours ago, alant said:

Really!

What would you call the aggressive Remain lobby that refuse to accept the wishes expressed in the referendum vote?

 

Sensible and agile of mind.

[Chomper Higgot]

18 minutes ago, nontabury said:

So your calling 17.4 million people the mob?

Why not come out and say your against Democracy.

I think the term is large mob.

 

But as you strongly suspect, knowhere near as large as it was.

 

Orherwise you’d have no problem with a referendum on the deal.

[Baerboxer]

58 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

no sweat,

if you and the UK parliament don't fancy no-deal then you must accept the May-deal next week,

or cancel the A50

neither is difficult

 

 

The weasely May government are hoping to avoid the two actions they don't want i.e. withdrawing Article 50 or leaving with no-deal by persuading the EU to let them extend the period of Article 50. Just kicking the can down the road as always. 

 

Seemingly it appears Merkel is against this so it won't happen. 

 

Common sense says you withdraw Article 50, allow the people to decide in a fresh referendum or general election. Otherwise you leave, with no deal, which clearly the government has done bugger all about managing.

[melvinmelvin]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

The weasely May government are hoping to avoid the two actions they don't want i.e. withdrawing Article 50 or leaving with no-deal by persuading the EU to let them extend the period of Article 50. Just kicking the can down the road as always. 

 

Seemingly it appears Merkel is against this so it won't happen. 

 

Common sense says you withdraw Article 50, allow the people to decide in a fresh referendum or general election. Otherwise you leave, with no deal, which clearly the government has done bugger all about managing.

if this is smth that the parliament could fancy I think the possible answer is easy.

ditch May ASAP, tomorrow- no need to wait for vote on deal, new PM / cabinet ASAP

go to EU and ask for extension

with a view to get that boombooming backstop out - but you will need a new PM/cabinet to even try to approach this.